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Jaguar XJ-Series

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  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Hmmm.....

    First, a Jaguar cannot be certified unless it's under the original manufacturers warranty. That excludes most 97s and all 95-96s at this point.

    The cost alone on a certified car for the warranty is $895 and also I used to spend an average of $1,500 in recon (Brakes...30K service..new Pirellis) However, once it is certified as a Select Edition, the car is then certified until the warranty is up.

    I'll base these on clean cars, free of paintwork with no more than 12K miles/year. Exceptionally low-mile cars are rarely a good deal IMHO. If I have to go and buy a 15K mile 98 VDP I'm going to have to pay stupid-high $$ for it.

    Now, we do make $$ on used cars, but Jags are often seen with grossly inflated price tags I ought to mention. This will assume a certified car from the dealer so as they get newer the "spread" is going to increase to reflect that.

    A clean 95 in a good color is worth about $20-21K or so retail assuming that it's clean..etc..and in a good color for it such as Topaz, Sapphire, Glacier White, Carnival or Ice Blue and with the right equipment (All 95-96s have CD Changers OEM, but if the car is in the Northern climates it better have Traction and heated seats). Car's worth about $16-17K or so wholesale.

    A nice 96, again, same criteria as above, is going to be worth about $19-20K wholesale and about $23-24Kish retail. There's one guy who's had his 96 in the paper for $30K... No way.

    A nice 97, now a Select Edition car, certified by the dealer, is going to be worth $28-31K retail. Wholesale will be $23-26K on that car.

    A 98? Again, certified by the dealer, 36-39K retail, $31-34K wholesale.

    99 as above... $38-41K wholesale, and about $43-46K or so retail.

    00 as above.. $45-50K wholesale, $50-55K retail. Miles and color make a big swing here. $45K is closer to about 15K miles... 3-4K miles you're at the $50K level.

    Hope this helps... But it's easier if I have a specific car to work on. Color can make or break these cars. Paintwork slaughters them..etc... so it's tough to go by a "guide"

    Bill
  • 97vdpguy97vdpguy Posts: 111
    Which are the best colors for resale?

    Which are the worst?

    I have a Jade Green '97 VDP ($32K). Did I get screwed?
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    Not if you like it.
  • christchurchchristchurch Posts: 125
    Bill,

    Thanks for the thoughtful response on pricing.
    It is a big help coming from someone like you who has the "inside" knowledge of pricing. I am going to print a "hard copy" of your note for future reference.

    I am wondering, though, if you agree that "certified" is the way to go. I have always thought it was the best way to buy and protect my "investment". Of course, this does necessitate buying through a dealer. Friends, have purchased from private sources and "foreign car used car dealers". They then have bought "extended warranties" at high prices and with very mixed satisfaction.

    What is your thinking and your purchase advise?

    christchurch
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    image

    Jade Green, BAD????? Well, there's MY opinion (and my car) above! Nah... it really is a good color. Morocco Red (Which I love) and, (Sorry if I offend) Rose Bronze arent that hot at all for resale. Those would be the worst. Sherwood green (97) is not so hot and Spruce Green (96) is also pretty weak. BRG I'm afraid (95-96) is also weak.

    Best color for a VDP is Topaz, Followed by.. hmm... Spindrift White and Jade are both good. White being a bit better IFF it has Coffee/Cashmere guts. Ice Blue is decent, Sapphire is good, Carnival is also good but I always did well with 97s that were Cabernet. On the 98+s Amaranth is terrible, Madeira is also weak as is Spruce.

    $32K for a Select Edition car in a good color and clean? You paid a fair price assuming miles erent high. How many? And where in the country are you? Equipment?

    Oh, Wire wheels hurt resale too. If you must have them, keep the stock wheels.

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    I have two opinions on how to buy a Jag:

    1) Go to a Jag dealer. Understand the following:

    1) We spend an average of $2K or so certifying these cars and make a national average of $5,000 on used ones. Them's the facts. Might not be what you want to hear.... That being said: That car had damn well better be perfect, because you're going to pay a lot for it. However you have factory warranty, generally low APRs available, and a car that's been checked from stem-to-stern in detail.

    2) Get tight with a wholesaler/used car dealer and have him grab you one from the sale. Unless it's under factory or select edition warranty.. it's gonna be totally AS-IS. You're buying a pig in a poke. Although it IS to a much lesser degree if you're smart enough to send the car throught he auction's mechanical and structural inspection after the sale and if you look it over beforehand. If you're not qualified to do this, you are playing russian roulette with your wallet.

    OR

    Find one from an Independent dealer or Private Party. You should expect a good whack of "book" retail as the car has probably not been inspected heavily and an independent generally rices them to sell and a Private party isn't certifying the car either. It never ceased to amazeme how people would try and sell their Jags on their own for more that the dealers were selling certified cars for.

    "Hmmm, now why would I want to pay you MORE for this XJR than the dealer wants for one just like it with a fresh set of Pirellis and Brakes and a fresh 30K service and 4yrs and 70K of warranty on it?"

    As far as extended warranties go... some are good, many are crap... it's really a crapshoot, but it depends on the company. With the lousy reputation of these cars (Now very undeserved) the warranty premiums are quite high for them. Generally these are not worth the $$. Considering what a Select Edition warranty adds to the car for what it costs the dealer to add in ($895 cost $1,495 MSRP) it's a bargain. I have yet to see an aftermarket 6yr/100K warranty for a Jag have a COST of under $2,500!

    Bill
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Other than the obvious (time, mileage, warranty), what are the differences in features that make it worth the cost differential of moving up from 96 to 97 to 98 and on up to a brand new one?

    this has been the most useful/interesting discussion I've listened in on in a long time! Thanks, and please keep it up. I'm making hard copy of many of these posts.

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • 97vdpguy97vdpguy Posts: 111
    Bill,

    Hey, Great-looking car!!

    Thanks for all your friendly advice. I just wish I had found this site BEFORE I bought. I would have been better prepared.

    I'm quite happy with my Jade Green VDP. The car had 28,800 miles on it when I signed the paperwork. It had all the options but two - the upgraded sound system and the 6-CD changer. I added the CD at my expense ($1,000 thru the dealership). The paint and interior are immaculate. After I took it home, I noticed that the under-hood toolbox was missing. It would have been nice if it was there, but I'm not that worried about it.

    The nice thing for me was that the previous owner had the car serviced at the same dealership. The service records indicated that the car had already had its 30K mile service as well as the Select Service inspection. Unfortunately for me, the car was put into service in 10/96, making it inelligible for the select warranty. I had to add the after-market warranty for $2,800 extra.

    I live in Northern Virginia. The base price of the car was $32K ($33K if you factor in the CD player).

    Another nice(?) thing I've noticed about the car being jade green... it's the same color as the pollen that's currently covering everything outside. Aside from it looking a tad "dusty", it pretty much blends right in!

    Cheers,
    Ron
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Joe,

    96-97 there are very few differences. Heck, I'll list em:

    Colors: Sherwood Green (Olivey dark metallic) replaced Spruce (Super Dark Green metallic). Morocco Red killed off, Racing Green dropped from the VDP as was Carnival Red. Cabernet introduced (Beautiful dark burgandy).

    Rear seats went from a "bench-type" to more contoured a la the 95 VDP. CD Changer no longer standard, $1,000 option.

    "Weather Package" still $2,000 but now the rear seats are heated too.

    Umm.... rear-view mirror controls a bit different... umm... ummm.....

    Oh, the XJ6L came out in '97 with the 4.9" wheelbase stretch and the XJ12 died.

    Thats it that I can think of.

    Sunroof is now standard across the range as is the "Convienience Pkg" (Always standard on the VDP/XJR/XJ12, Which is HomeLink, Auto-Dimming rear-view mirror, memory seats and power steering column).

    On the 98s: The car is totally redesigned underneath. Complete mechanical makeover. Still has the same basic suspension design, but it's totally redesigned. Car goes to the 290HP AJ-V8 engine and 5-speed automatic transmission as well as a multiplex wiring harness (3 years ahead of Lexus). Side Air Bags standard. All-New dashboard, Traction is still an option but "ASC" is now standard (Much like the old trac system) and the new trac system is a bit better. Heck, almost everything is new. Wheels are no longer the beatiful 20-spoke diamond-turned alloys but these nasty and ughly "Crown" alloys. I hate them, also the center caps love to pop off. Wood in no longer "Square" on the doors but more of an oval shape. Front and rear bumpers and lights redesigned.

    The dealer-installed PIVOTS Phone is introduced with voice-activation at an MSRP of $2,950

    New VDP Colors: Sherwood Green and Jade Green die. Cabernet dies for Madeira Red (Mistake) and Amaranth comes out (Bad Idea... a PURPLE Jag? Sheesh!). Spruce Green returns, and Creme Interior color is changed to Ivory. Coffee is changed to the lighter Cashmere. Parchment (Jade Green looking) Interior is dropped.

    99: Minor stuff really. Few color changes: Alpine Green is introduced (Nasty IMHO), Spruce dies for Emerald (Niiiice), and...umm.. Oh yeah it's no longer a piece of plastic around the shiftgate but vinyl! :) No more Sapphire Blue on VDPs (Stupid) so we special ordered em like we had been doing with Silver cars.

    00: Navigation available, Amaranth dies finally, Westminster Blue is announced (Dark metallic blue, historical color) we can finally normally order a Silver (Now called Platinum) VDP, and Seafrost (Robin's egg blue) is new. Premium Sound is now by Alpine. Sapphire Blue returns.

    01: New Wheels (Finally), Hideous new color called Roman Bronze (Metallic dogcrap), reverse park control stndard.

    New car is introd in '02... It ought to REALLY be something! And glad ya like my posts!

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Ron,

    That nice of a car? And you bought it a few months ago? You did quite well IMHO.. You paid about $4-5K over the car's then wholesale value. Figure they had $1K in recon costs (Even if I took a car in that JUST had a major service we always ran them through the shop, sounds like they did the 30K and the SE inspection.. I figure $1,200 if it didnt need brakes or tires). Figure they probably made $3K-3,500 on you which is fair. Remember, we make $$ on used cars, more so than on new and $2,500-3K over invoice is usually a strong deal on a new VDP.

    They didnt rip your head off at all. Plus... the low miles... the condition..the color. In my opinion you did well and paid a fair price. Figure I used to average a $5,500 gross on a Vanden Plas... So you got a cheaper than market deal.

    And dont feel bad. I paid close to $60K for mine in 95. Whats it worth with previous frame damage and paintwork all over and 125K miles? :)))))

    Plus, nice VDPs like yours arent common.

    The under-hood toolkits are not standard on US-Market cars. You can get them by special order from the dealer service dept.

    And, of course, you have got great taste in colors if I do say so myself :)

    Bill
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Not much in the way of significant changes, except for '98, at all.

    but I think I'd steer clear of the 'metallic dogcrap'! Great!!

    Thanks so much.

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    Which is worse. I think the purple. The Alpine actually worked in a strange way on the XJ's. It was truly frightening on a convertable.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Joe,

    If you can swing it.. go for a 98. Huge difference. Otherwise.. on the 96-97s.. like you said, go for condition and milesand price.

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Sheesh,

    This from the guy who works for the Amaranth King? :)))) I dunno how long ya been there but that store ALWAYS had Amaranth cars in stock!

    Yup, Amaranth is far worse than Alpine. Alpine on an XJ8 is so-so... and terrible on an XK8.

    Both colors are pretty tough to shift. I wish they had kept Jade around myself.

    Bill
  • actionmanactionman Posts: 15
    I can't imagine a fine Jag in any other color than black with tan interior. I have had a 1991 XJ6 version for several years. Updated with 1997 Turbine(?) chrome wheels and some too wide Z rated tires. It's quite a ride!
  • christchurchchristchurch Posts: 125
    Hello to all of you!

    I can say that this XJ site contains some of the best purchasing discussions I have seen on line.
    It is practical,experienced based and "price unbiased" (Of course, we are all "Jaguar biased" because we Love These Cats) !

    Keep these great comments and discussions coming our way.

    Now let me weigh in with a bit "of sage advice"!

    If you can afford it and wish to take advantage of the "buying back a few years ", 1998 is my recommended choice. The redesign by Coventry and Ford engineering has moved this model forward in sophistication a la Bill's (brentwoodvolvo) great summary above. It has many subtle improvements.

    Now saying this, I am in no way depreciating the value and unique quality and beauty of older models. They, too, are still great cars. But, my point is that, if you are new to Jag or are "stepping up" in years and "down" in mileage and don't want to go all the way to buying new, I believe the 1998 XJ8 VDP is the very best choice.

    In fact, I believe this so strongly that if in the market I would wait, shop and investigate all around until I found one that is just right.
    I have done this and it has always been a stategically right move ,if is not in a rush better choices are made.
    The 1998 is really one fantastic automobile, in my opinion, as good as it gets!
    Don't miss this one if you are in the market.

    christchurch
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Interesting. In this morning's classifieds, a local Ford dealer has paid for a listing for a '99 XK8 convertible with 3000 miles. no price listed. This dealer is most often printing ads re: "1 owner F-150" or "like new Taurus." This shop is rumored to be crooked and known to be pretty high pressure.

    Now, how would he end up with iron like this? Curious. I sure wouldn't want to pursue the car without a Carfax report. Or am I just a bigot? Is there any particular weakness in the XK8 that might take it away from Jag dealers or more likely venues? Maybe the owner traded it in on 6 or 7 Focuses?

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    Ford dealer most likely bought the car at auction or took it on trade from a really unhappy customer who just did not like the car.

    Oh we still sell amaranth. '99 VDP just last weekend. It is still ugly, but hey whatever sells.
  • I am considering buying a 99 jag. I have seen the new x350 design and don't really like it.

    My question:

    Is it worth buying the 99 Jag or should I wait for the new redesign to come out? Will the new redesign drastically affect the value of my 99 Jag?
  • pluskinpluskin Posts: 79
    Are you sure you've seen the new X350 design? Just because there are images available in various auto magazines or on the internet, doesn't mean that is exactly what it will look like. I have seen the X350 in person, and in my opinion, there is nothing about it that would turn off somebody who likes the current model. What is it you don't like?
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    I've seen the green, computerized X350, and I like it. Is that not what the real car looks like? Where can we see pictures of the real deal? (Or can we?)
  • pluskinpluskin Posts: 79
    not sure which picture you're referring to, but it will be some time before the real thing is revealed
  • I have seen only the computerized green. I have not seen it in person. To me it looked to puffy (for lack of a better word) than the current model. Not that it is not a nice car, but it looked more like a mercedez than a jaguar.

    If you have seen it live, I was wondering if it was big departure from the current model look? It looked like a big departure in the computerized image. That is why I am little worried about getting an outdated model.
  • pluskinpluskin Posts: 79
    I certainly didn't think it was a big departure, but then again you might pick up some some subtleties, and disagree. I think it would be a mistake though to make buying decisions based on styling that you haven't actually seen.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Christchurch: Glad I'm helping :) The 98s are really wonderful cars. Especially in Sapphire! :)

    Joe W: Like Mike said, probably got it at an auction. Generally corporate (Ford Corporate that is) demos are run at Ford factory auctions. So maybe they saw it there andf grabbed it for the GM, GSM or Used car mgr or Dealer Principal to use. Heck, if you wanted a used jag I can run you to the auction right now and get ya one.

    As far as the X350 goes... I'm gonna wait till I see it. I do have an X-Type 2.5 Sport Manual on order :)) Too bad you can't get the 3.0 Manual here >:( Well... that's what we knew when I ordered it anyways.

    Bill
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    The car is outstanding. You'll love it. I just got back from the ride and drive for the X-Type. The car is unbelievable.

    I would not put to much faith in computerized guesses about what the new XJ is going to look like. If you want a 99 Jag now buy one now, If you like the current style go for it.

    Mike
  • csmason1csmason1 Posts: 10
    Thought you might be interested to hear how loe these "older" cats can go. I just won an auction on a 93 white/coffee XJ6 w/ 79K for $7,799. My parents have checked out the car and will be driving it to my place in 2 weeks. Yes, I know it's that old style of Jag (not the fashionable new circular headlights), but I like the distinctiveness of the European style front end. I'm 27, and I never thought I'd be able to own a Jaguar (and keep my paid-off Saturn as a back-up at the same time!) LIFE IS GOOD...

    I have a question, however...what is the difference is the VDP and the regular XJ6 from 93? Is it just the quality of the wood, leather, etc. or are there any mechanical/structural differences? TIA

    Craig
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Umm... where was your ride and drive? Didja see Ann Stone? I'd have told you to tell her I said "hi"

    Umm... I shouldnt admit this publicly, but.. Well, I felt the steering was perfect and the drivetrain worked seamslessly

    Bill
    Who still has friends at mahwah
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Craig,

    Congrats! Good price and a great car. Nothing major to worry about either. Oh, and I got you beat by a year.. Im 26 :) Good color combo too!

    Use Hide food on the seats, Castrol oil and keep her maintained, and she'll treat you well.

    Oh, a Vanden Plas has more burled and better-matched wood veneers with Peruvian Boxwood inlays, rear picnic tables, rear "bucket-style" seats and different seat patterns and upgraded leather. A 93 VDP also has heated seats.

    Some more chrome, "Roulette" wheels on 91-93s, and fluted front grille and trunk plinth.

    That's it!

    Bill
  • csmason1csmason1 Posts: 10
    Bill, thanks again for the great information. I hope this Jaguar last me for several years; by that time I hope to be able to purchase a 2-3 year-old XK8 (oh my).

    Craig
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