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Mazda Protege5

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Comments

  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    OK, I'm convinced now. I cranked the numbers. Combining with the gear ratios on Mazda webpage, the integrated power band tells me that the optimal shift point should be even higher than 6500 rpm (possibly 6700-6800, depending how the torque drops after the largest rpm on your data sheet) and at any gear.

    BTW, are you sure the torque at 3000 rpm is 99 ftxlb? It should be around 102 to be consistent with the rest.

    Bruno
  • dsm6dsm6 Posts: 813
    Those numbers were for the 1.8. The original discussion was with respect to the new sportshift auto. This feature is new to the 02s. If it is an 02, it has the 2.0, not the 1.8. The 2.0, as pointed out above and in a post in the sedan forum, has a different power curve that drops off more steeply toward redline.
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    I know, I know. I just assumed that the torque curves of both 1.8 and 2.0l engines are correlated well as the rpms at torque peak and power peak are amazingly similar.

    If you know where to find a torque curve of the 2.0l engine, I'll be happy to do the same and post the result.

    Bruno
  • jstandeferjstandefer Posts: 805
    "BTW, are you sure the torque at 3000 rpm is 99 ftxlb? It should be around 102 to be consistent with the rest."

    It really is 99 ft-lbs. On the 1.8L engine, you get a big power surge between 3,400-4,000rpm. When I drove the 2.0L, that's the first thing I noticed... no power surge.

    You can try this ProtegeClub thread for two different dyno sheets of the 2.0L without mods. You can see the higher torque at lower rpm, but it does fall a lot steeper past the 5,000rpm mark, just as you predicted.

    The torque curve on the 2.0L is actually pretty different than the 1.8L. The 2.0L has high low-end and low high-end torque. The 1.8L has a bit less torque, but it's pretty consistent throughout the rev range. Another thing I noticed with these 2.0L dyno sheets is how erratic they are. Both sheets are from seperate cars and different shops. They both bounce up and down, where mine is pretty smooth. Can anyone explain that?

    -Jerry
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    Thanks to Jerry for indicating where to find the torque data of 2.0l engine.

    Optimal shifting are:

    1-2: 6750rpm (rev limited), average power 94hp
    2-3: 6420rpm, average power 99hp
    3-4: 6330rpm, average power 99.5hp
    4-5: 6230rpm, average power 100.1hp

    Bruno
  • stoli25stoli25 Posts: 14
    Have you ever driven Golf? How is it comparable with Pro5?
    I'm thinking of buying one of those two.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Posts: 1,583
    you really took your time analyzing all these power data, nice work!

    and yes, I can confirm on the 3400-4000 'surge' for the 1.8L that Jerry talks about. That's when it gets fun, even for an automatic :D

    actually, you can feel the surge beginning to ramp up right around 3000, and then by 4000 you're in the back of your seat! :D
  • jstandeferjstandefer Posts: 805
    But, you have to give Bruno a lot of the credit for calculating the optimum shift points for both engines! Thanks Bruno!
    -Jerry
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    Boxes, Size Small:

    Chrysler PT Cruiser
    Ford Focus ZX5
    Pontiac Vibe
    Mazda Protegé5
    Suzuki Aerio SX
    Toyota Matrix XRS
    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2002/june/200206_comparo_boxes.xml?

    Very interesting where they rated the Vibe/Matrix?
    -Larry
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    I did test drive both. Please see the post #1586.

    Bruno
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    Car & Driver comparo actually. :-)

    I think it's interesting that they still chose the P5 even with the Matrix's 50 hp advantage.

    Just proves our point again... power isn't everthing.
  • amonteamonte Posts: 12
    I'm sorry if this was already covered - but what's S-Plan price?
  • tgif888tgif888 Posts: 351
    It is a Ford partner's price. Ask your HR department to see if your company is Ford's partner.
  • jstandeferjstandefer Posts: 805
    The S-Plan is a special pricing program mainly for Ford Motor Co. (Ford, Mazda, Mercury, Lincoln, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, etc.) suppliers and partners. The price is set by the manufacturer and is on the vehicle's invoice. The dealer cannot change this price, though he may opt to not sell a vehicle at S-plan pricing. This rarely happens and if it does, it typically happens to a limited vehicle like the Protege MP3 (of which only 1,500 were built).


    S-Plan pricing is generally a few hundred dollars below the vehicle's invoice price. However, it varies depending on the vehicle.


    You used to be able to join the Experimental Aircraft Association and immediately qualify for the S-plan. However, beginning December 1, 2001, the program has changed and you must be a member for a year before qualifying for the S-plan. For those of you planning on buying a Ford Motor Co. vehicle, it may help to join the EAA for $40 per year so that you save on your next purchase or lease. To see the EAA's special partner program with Ford, click here.

    -Jerry

  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    It's funny that you mention the EAA, because I joined back in February 2001 to get a good price on the 2001 Protege I bought. I got it for like $263 below the factory invoice. The dealer was really mad, because I was waiting to sell my car and he couldn't let the car that I wanted go because I had already told them to hold it. (This was back when the 2001s first came out, and were pretty scarce.) But it is definitely a good deal, if you are so inclined.
  • rlenihanrlenihan Posts: 8
    I recently test-drove a P5 5-speed and liked just about everything about (price, looks, handling), but I couldn't get over the noise. The performance was OK but to really get any oomph out of the car I had to really wind it up, which caused the engine to whine loudly and irritatingly. It was kind of a like a high-pitched nasally voice crying "not so haaard!!!" (think Joe Besser of the 3 Stooges). Also, when I took it out onto the highway I noticed a lot of noise at cruising speed (70-75 mph), mostly from the engine, although there was a lot of road noise from the tires and wind noise from (I suppose) the roof rack.

    Anyway, my question is this -- is this something that diminishes after break-in or do you just have to get used to it? I'm in the market for a small wagon/hatch-back that's fun to drive and around 15K. I really liked the P5 but I'm not sure I could put up with that whining all the time.
  • mustang87mustang87 Posts: 129
    the tire noise is due to a low profile tires and soft rubber. remove the roof rack and the wind noise is gone. funny, i don't hear any engine noise on my car even at 80+ mph. btw, you do use stereo, right? so whats there to worry about.
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    Engine: occasionally, I also hear more engine noise between 70-75 mph. Running over 80mph or bellow 60mph will produce less noise. It only happens (again occasionally) at few first miles on the road. I found the car is decently quite after warming up correctly. It could be there is a resonance at that specific rpm. I notice that all the cars I own so far (5) have the some sort of resonance noise, the frequency might change, but they all have it (OK, I never own a Mercedes or Roll Roys). Just test drive another P5 and see if you hear the same or not.

    Bruno
  • dsm6dsm6 Posts: 813
    Thanks for doing the shift point analysis for the 2.0. I see that my suspicions about the differences between it and the 1.8 were correct.
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    you are welcome. Of course you were correct. I'm very curious myself that is why I do this analysis. These torque curves are extremely useful and tell us much more about the engine than just the maximum hp number alone. Too bad that most of car makers don't give out theses curves anymore. The 2.0l engine has a lot of torque at low end, about 10% more torque than the 1.8l up to 5000rpm. However after 6000 rpm, the 1.8l still have a lot of punch where the 2.0l run out of steam. In fact, for most of us, nothing is new about it. The numbers just prove the observation.

    Bruno
  • shriqueshrique Posts: 338
    You know for me that's perfectly fine. I tend to be a low shifter anyway when I'm just winging around town.

    Thanks for the number crunching. I just don't have that kind of patience. (GRIN)
  • ggilliomggilliom Posts: 22
    Well, I drove a friend's new 5-sp Jetta 1.8T today at lunch, and I experienced the turbo surge that's been discussed. It is amazing. (I'm surprised some of the lousy drivers out there can handle it, actually!)

    In my mind, as much as I love the P5 (and will probably still buy one, because it'll be about 4-5K less than a Jetta I'd want), there is no question the Jetta is a much quieter ride. I mean, I could barely hear the engine at any point while zooming up a freeway onramp. Likewise at cruising. The AC at 2 makes far more noise than wind, road, or engine. Frankly, I don't know how they do it. It's like, Camry quiet..you wonder, "is this thing on?"

    The P5 can't compete with it in terms of sound dampening. But it definitely can on many other levels (seat comfort, reliability, price, and uniqueness being big ones for me).
  • dsm6dsm6 Posts: 813
    I'd add handling to the list of ways in which it can compete.

    The Jetta is nice, but was too expensive for me.
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    what do you mean by "zooming up [the Jetta] a freeway onramp"? YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY *ZOOM* WITHOUT A MAZDA!!! ;-)

    Bruno
  • xeonesxeones Posts: 12
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I love the fact that I don't see a P5 beside me at every stop light and intersection.

    The Jetta is smaller inside, doesn't have the same handling skill and has boring styling.

    Most important of all in my book is the Jetta really isn't much of a value when you look at what little more you get for the big price increase...DON'T FORGET the Jettas we get are born in Mexico.

    In my book the only REAL competition for the P5 is the Subi Impreza. You may pay more, but at least you get a bigger engine and 4 wheel drive, albiat with a smaller interior.

    Matrix? go drive one they are ok in a straight line. Try some curves and the GM roots come through with the torsen bar rear. Also styling is too close to the Pontiac Aztek.

    Just my humble opinion.

    Mark
  • scozimscozim Posts: 10
    I was at the dealer today discussing the P5 I want and he threw out an interesting twist that is real tempting. Said if I wanted they could order up a set of the 17" Racing Hart wheels that were on the MP3 and put them on the P5 with some new rubber. While it may make the ride a little rougher it's got some real appeal. Has anyone gone this route?
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    recalibrate the speedometer? with bigger wheels, the handling (and look?) should be better, trading against some small reduction of comfort, fast acceleration, and possibly fuel economy. It's your call.

    Bruno
  • pciskowskipciskowski Posts: 155
    These seem to be getting worse as time goes on. I guess that is the price for such a firm ride. Has anyone else had/fixed/located the following? I am putting the general location because I haven't been able to find the actual culprits yet. Ashtray, drivers window, front seat belt anchors (both sides), instrument panel. The ashtry and instrument panel seem to buzz when accelerating in 3rd.
  • ggilliomggilliom Posts: 22
    I *knew* I'd get in trouble for saying "zoom" in reference to another car...

    :-)

    The Jetta price definitely jumps when you load it up with the standard P5 options.
  • shriqueshrique Posts: 338
    Wow that's quite a list. Most of the squeaks and rattles that I had went away quickly or were atributed to things like change and Jewel cases.

    In regards to a VW. Nice cars easier ride than the P5 but if you put the VW 2.0L against the P5 the p5 wins every time in my book. If you want a smoother easier highway cruiser that still handles pretty good the VW is a way to go.
This discussion has been closed.