Mazda Protege5

ateixeira

The one I test drove was a nice blue. Salt and dirt will show more on blue than it would on silver, though. I think colors are such a personal choice, though.

The 3.0l Ford Duratec V6 is probably too heavy for the Protoge platform. It wouldn't be as balanced nor would it handle as well as it does. Lots of weight on the front axle, and plenty o' torque steer.

I say don't worry, be happy with your P5. Mazda ought to put the MP3's engine in there, though.

-juice

bu4uok

I keep hearing that the Protege5 sound system is crappy. However, I hear that the mp3 has a great sound system which includes the capability of playing both regular cd's and mp3's. Soooooo, my question is whether or not the mp3's sound system can be factory ordered for the Protege5. Does anyone know if this is possible? Thanks.

- Music lover

ashutoshsm

Is made up of a DIN-sized head unit (which will fit in the Pro5, I understand), a nice amplifier and speaker upgrades, and a large subwoofer in the trunk. It should be possible to buy these components yourself (or even factory order and have the dealer install them), but unless you're a do-it-yourselfer, expect installation sticker shock!

Not to mention the net price of all the components that go into the MP3 has been tagged at over $1200!

mustang87

If you are in south florida please try to come to the first? protege5, mp3 meet at the tower shops on university drive and 595 in davie. behind miami subs. cant miss it. wednesday at 8pm. we have planned for hopefully 7 or 8 cars allready. please come and lets meet. any question- email me

bluong1

I'm just back from a 1k-mile-trip to Monterrey, Mexico, zoom-zooming with the Protege5. Passings are performed with ease, and the handling is uniformly awesome whereas cruising at 70 or 100mph (I didn't activated the cruise-control at any time). The car is comfortable: I could drive 5h in the row without being tired. The officer controlling at the border asked me "Is it your car?", probably thinking that it's a $4k+ car! Back to Houston, the yellow car is now cleaned of dead-bugs and dirt, and it's shinny again.

Zoom-zoom,

Bruno

onboost91

Am I wrong in assuming that a dealer should be knowledgeable about the cars they sell? I had to order a replacement plastic splash shield for the front driver side bottom of the car because I hit one of them damn truck tire retreads that are all over the place (why the hell aren't these things freaking illegal! I've seen them cause almost countless accidents. In this case it also cracked my front bumper and almost dislodged my rear bumper on the follow through. To avoid it I would have had to completely ram another car).
I call the dealer and it takes me 2! days and conversations with 3! different parts people to get them to figure out that the Protege I bought in early June, while listed as a 2002 in my documentation, is really a 2001 on their parts sheet. Shouldn't they know that if I have a Protege5 and the only listing they have is for a 2001 Protege5, then that is what it is? They kept giving me the run around that they have no parts listing for any 2002 cars and they would let me know when they eventually get one in. The final parts woman I dealt with also complained because she was going to have to go through all the trouble of looking the part up on the Micro Fiche. Please, isn't that her job!
I'm getting the feeling that my dealer is pretty crappy. I took it in for an oil change awhile back and while I was there waiting I spoke with a little old lady and her husband who had brought their car (a ford if it matters) in for an oil change as well. They had gotten there at 8 am for their APPOINTMENT and when I got out of there at 1:00pm they were still sitting there waiting for just an OIL Change. I tell you, I let the service manager have it for taking advantage of them like that.
The body shop guys seemed entirely shady too. I was originally going to have them throw the splash guard on for me but they quoted me $70 for the part and 1.5 hours labor. He didn't even jack the car up to quote that by the way. I went home and jacked the car up and looked...the damaged splash guard is only held on by 5 screws. It should take 10 minutes to replace! they wanted $100+ in labor...them cheating bastards!
-Finn
200? Protege5, Silver. 5k miles

ateixeira

Time to swap dealers.

-juice

mp5_cdn

I had the exact same prolem. I bought a silver then decided I wanted blue because the silver did not arrive yet. I wanted blue because it reminded me of the VW Jetta Blue and the VOLVO Blue. I thought it was real classy when I saw a blue MP5 on the road. I asked to change and they said it would take 2 months. I couldn't wait so I settled for silver. When I went to pick it up it was a rainy day and at that moment I realized silver was by far a much better choice. Silver is easier to keep clean. Doesn't show stone chips and scratches as much as dark colours. Statistically light coloured cars get into less accidents in the night time compared to dark colour cars. Silver is a classic colour and will be easy to sell one day when you retire from it. Overall - EVERY COLOUR FOR THE MP5 LOOKS GREAT. Think of it this way - no matter what a super model wears - she will still look good- and that is exactly how it seems for the MP5. When I am on the streets and I see another MP5 be it black, blue, red or yellow - every colour looks great. I love my silver Mp5. I get looks from people who drive nicer cars than mine. Just yesterday a guy in a BMW 325i was checking out my car. Hope this helps Good luck on your hunt!

ateixeira

I like the styling too. My wife thought it was adorable. Too bad it's a little small for her tastes.

-juice

bluong1

Unfortunately, dealers have huge variability in their quality of service, and there is very little way for consumers to know which one is worse or better until they try themselves.

I encountered 3 Mazda dealers in Houston area, and here is my little impression:

- Gillman Mazda (Richmond): lemon award. They never return my call when I'm interested in buying a Mazda and asked for a road test.
-Jay-Marks Mazda: lemon award. They tried to rip me off for a yellow P5. Salesman didn't knew much about the car he wanted to sale. When I called asking for oil change appointments, I was put on hold on the phone for 20mn!
- Jeff-Haas Mazda: silver award. That's where I bough my car, make the oil change for 30mn and $15, free car wash in bonus. No complain so far.

Bruno

pocmonster

This car looks so sweet, especially the hatchback. I've always had a thing for hatchbacks, and I love Edmund's photos. Wow!

barresa62

I hope Mazda has the foresight enough to bring both the hatch and the wagon over. The sedan is good looking but the wagon and especially the hatchback are homeruns in the styling dept, IMHO. The only thing that might be considered by some as here today/gone tomorrow tacky would be the Altezza like rear taillight treatment.

Stephen

ashutoshsm

Wait a year and buy a brand new Mazda 6 Wagon!

Read the reviews and join the new discussion about the car.

There's another discussion and more pics at

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=128418&page=1

boopoppa

man, the new 6 hatchback looks great! i gotta give props to mazda's design dept. first the pro5, and now the 6 hatchback. arghghg....decisions, decisions...

bluewolf

Great looking car, especially in yellow. But for $19k (realistic price with any options) this baby needs more power, period. Pretty nice basic interior and handling, but the engine doesn't like to rev, and the materials feel cheap compared to VW which is in the same price range.

Sporin

I got my no option Pro5 for $16.5k. I agree that at $19k it's not as good a deal, but the base models are fully equipped and will run circles around anything VW offers for the same price.

I am a BIG VW fan having just turned in a nice, leased Passat. But unless you can get into a 1.8T equipped car, I just don't think VW competes.

meinrad

Granted, at 19,500 the Jetta Wagon competes favorably to the Pro 5, but the Pro 5 I want (only option: sunroof) is MSRP of $17515 and the only way a Jetta Wagon can touch that price is with a 115hp engine, steel wheels and no sunroof. I initially was looking at the Jetta, but the one I wanted was $22k, and just not worth the extra $4500 in my opinion.

mdriver

You are fogetting that the Jetta/Golf comes with standard side and head SRS and ABS. You can't get the headbag on the P5, but if you add ABS, the price is close to $19k, which is on the high side for a small wagon. You can't really compare the VWs to the P5. The VWs have a higher build quality (although not necessarily better reliability) and safety rating that's hard to quantify. The P5 doors for example, feel paper thin compared to the tank-like VW's.

ateixeira

Gorgeous. I like all the different body styles, but the wagon is both beautiful and functional. I would definitely test drive one, as my wife will need to replace her 626 soon.

Only thing missing is an AWD option. People will start leaving their SUVs in droves if more of these sport wagons offer AWD.

I saw some Jetta wagons, well equipped, in the $27k price range. It was at the same dealer that had the Protoge5 I test drove. I didn't even bother test driving one.

-juice

vocus

A 2.0 GLS Jetta wagon stickers for around $21,500. A P5 wagon with the sunroof, ABS, alarm, cassette, and automatic (same equipment as the Jetta) stickers for $19,565. You still save $2000, and get more power than the standard VW turbo engine. To add the 1.8T to the Jetta wagon is a $2000 option, which comes to $23,500 or so. And I personally don't think the Jetta handles as good as the P5 does. I mean $2000 is $2000, but you have to make the decision for yourselves.

ateixeira

You mean standard non-turbo engine. 115hp is totally lame, unacceptable in this class.

-juice

vocus

I mean standard non-turbo engine, yeah. Sorry. Of course, the warranties are the same on both cars (1 year more on the VW than Mazda), but I hear VW service is not as good as Mazda's usually (always hear complaints about VW service), and the reliability of the Mazda seems to be better as well.

Also, At, didn't you used to go by the handle "juice" on the 626 board here at Edmund's? I remember you under another name, but not sure what it is. Lemme know, because it's bugging me.

ateixeira

I never had the actual handle, but that's how I sign off. I do hang around the 626 boards, since that's what my wife drives.

VW probably has the edge in initial quality, but long-term I'd give the nod to Mazda's reliability.

-juice

phoenixmp5

I love VWs and also considered the wagan as an alternate to the P5. One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that the P5 W/AT weighs 2746lbs. The Jetta 2.0 Wagon weighs 3133lbs, and the 1.8T 3334lbs. That's a lot of additional weight for such small engines.

Sporin

Another big difference is the absolutely sloppy stock suspensions that VW offers. Lot's of body roll and dive and squat. It is a HUGE problems for the VW-community right now.

One thing that I loved about the Pro5 was it's firm, sporty suspension... stock. AR better then what's available on 2.0 VW's.

cappyk

Is that new 626 Hatchback coming over to the US? When? How much?

vocus

They say the sedan is definitely coming, but not sure yet about the 6 hatchback. And they also dropped the "26", FYI.

revka

Come share your thoughts about the Mazda 6 hatchback and/or station wagon in these new Town Hall discussions: Mazda 6 Station Wagon and Mazda 6 Hatchback. Thanks for you participation. ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards

toivo

Does anyone have recommendations for a good,
affordable cargo tray/liner, (rubber/plastic)
for the Protege 5?

bluong1

When I look for new car in June, I ended up with the Mazda P5 and the VW Golf as two strong final contenders. I don't want to tell you what makes me finally chose the P5 over the Golf until I know better what kind of reaction are you waiting for from your post.

A) Do you want to tell us that we all made a big mistake by choosing the P5?
Are you looking for hearing good qualities of the Mazda from their owners?

Bruno

bluewolf

I got my 1.8T Jetta GLS for about $19k. I hope nobody is paying $21.5k for a Jetta Wagon with a 2.0 base engine, that's sad. For the same money, or a bit less I could have bought a P5, but it doesn't feel solid like any VW (shut the doors and see for yourself). It doesn't include side and head airbags standard, the seats aren't as nice, and the crash-test scores for VW are in another league altogether than the Protege line.
My VW has sport suspension and handles great, no complaints there. I'm not racing the thing.
Another important consideration, the 1.8T Jetta will blow the doors off a P5, and it just feels faster as well. For $300-500 you can chip it and get an easy 200 HP. For the money, a 1.8T VW is a very fun to drive car, and you get one of the top-rated engines in the world that is reliable and highly tuneable.

IMO, VW's are in another league when it comes to build quality, but reliability on average will be worse. VW is a love/hate car, not an appliance like a Honda. Some VWs are forever trouble free, some are lemons from the start, but most lie somewhere in-between.

I'm not trying to dis the P5 it looks great and handles nice, I just think it's underpowered and close to the cost of a 1.8T VW which has better safety ratings, feels more substantial, offers more HP and tuning potential, has a more fun-to-drive engine, and more standard features.

Even if cost were the bottom line, I'd choose a 2.0 115 HP Golf or Jetta Wagon over the P5. You still get the solid VW feel and excellent safety ratings and features.

maltb

ateixeira

If you have to pay for a chip and its installation, then the price difference is even bigger.

Plus, chip it and you'll end up with wicked torque steer. The Jetta doesn't have the virtual axis front suspension from the Passat, which does a so-so job at lessening torque steer.

Potent turbo engine + front wheel drive is not a good combination. Add the soft suspension and it's like asking for trouble. The P5 is more balanced, right from the start.

Protoge got an "Acceptable" score from IIHS and better than average for all other crash tests (just checked crashtest.com). It may not match the Jetta but it certainly ain't bad.

-juice

bjewett

Well... The passat is *very* nice, but once you tug the wheel over you find out how softly sprung they are. I've driven a protege and a passat, and much prefer the Mazda handling. The Pro/Pro5 have a very nice, tight suspension. They just need some more power, that I grant you. There is a rumored '02 Protege MPS with more power - possibly a turbo. Put that in the sedan &/or wagon and things get very interesting. A PR5 with a bigger (and rev-happy) engine would be very appealing.

I'm waiting for more power in a mazda - not for a VW, but that's just my preference.

mustang87

I got mine (yellow) for $17K. That's out the door including all taxes, tags, dealer fees, delivery and everything. 17k out the door. Options included: automatic, cassete and floor mats. You cant even touch a jetta sedan manual for this money, i am not even talking about the wagon. VW has nice cars but they are OVERPRICED, period.(at least now they offer 4 year warranty) The interior of the P5 is nothing short of excellent for the money. Its tight, has nice feel, comfortable, room (especially in the back) compared with the crammped jetta. I do agree the car needs more power, at least 150 to be more competitive and fun to drive. I was very disappointed with the performance #'s. But when i drove the base jetta with auto in 2000 it did not go anywhere either. Jettas look great, but not the wagons. But P5 look awesome and get a lot of attention. Yesterday a guy in a brand new Maseratti was checking my wagon out. Brand new MASERATTI! We had a small p5, mp3 meet here in south florida yesterday, 6 cars, people were turning of the main road and coming to see our cars. No lie.
P5 is nicer car but it does need more POWER.

mustang87

"You still get the solid VW feel and excellent safety ratings and features"

and you yourself said that the reliability is not as good on the VW. Dude, I cover 80-100 miles a day on the highway. Jetta would fall apart in my hands after 2-3 years. Why do you think they only offered 2 years warranty bumper to bumper on the previous years. Because they new that there is something wrong with them and once people start bring them back in they would have to eat up the cost. And read my post about the price. The only thing i would like to have from a jetta is the blue dash lighting instead of the stupid red one like on the p5.

bluong1

- The VW 1.8T engine is no double better, but the 2.0L is worse than Mazda engine.
- Mileage: Mazda is a better mileage.
- Manual transmission: Mazda gear box is more precise, VW stick is a little more fuzzy. Good ratios for both gear box.
- Suspension: VW suspension has more body-roll. Mazda rear TTL suspension behaves much better in the corner. The low center of gravity of the front and high center gravity of the back in the Mazda makes this car more balanced and gives more stability at high speed and curve. VW suspension is softer, but in anyway one can quailify it as sporty.
- Steering: Mazda has a more direct and smooth steering. The ratio is only 15:0.
- Chassis: from my test drive, it seems that Mazda chassis is more rigid: nothing seems to flex over street bump.
- Weight: Mazda is 300lb lighter.
- Break: Both are excellent with 4 disks. I think the VW will stop longer because of the extra 300lb.
- Room: Mazda has larger room, especially in the back.
- Build quality: I think both are comparable. The Mazda door is lighter, but when you shut the door, it produces a solid "sloop" sound. Interior material is exellent for both cars. VW sound system is better.
- Reliability: No double the Mazda has better records. It's build in Japan, and not in Mexico or Brazil. Two of my friends have a Jetta, and both have problem with the engine (oil leaking, ...). May be there is some trouble-free VW out there, but I don't want to take any chance on this respect.
- Safety: VW is probably better with side airbags. I don't trust 100% crashtest result.
- Price: $2000 in favor of the Mazda.
- Resale: Mazda hold the value better.
- Warranty: both are equivalent I think.
- Service: Mazda is probably better. I read a lot of Golf and Jetta owners complain about the VW service.
- Look: it's personal. For what I know is I get very often compliment from people on the street with my P5.

you can guess my choice.

Bruno

tmanz

First off let me start by saying that I'm the foremost authority on my opinion

I always get a kick out of people's "This car is a much better choice" comments. I'm sure that everyone here had tons of input like that while they were shopping for their car. Heck, my wife and I looked at: the Honda Civic, CRV, Toyota Rav4, Celica, Chevy Camaro, VW Jetta and a couple of others.

When it comes down to it with cars opinion matters, but really only your own opinion. We did rule out some choices that had very bad crash tests or terrible reliability But in the end it really comes down to which car you are going to be happy with for the next however many years you want to keep the car.

Granted it wasn't the only reason for buying it but the P5 just made us smile, it was fun to drive, fun to look at, great handling and and a good reputation for reliability. The resale value isn't as high as I'd like but I figured I could be driving around in a car I didn't like as much repeating over and over "It has a high resale value" or I could just buy the one I wanted.

It's almost like telling someone "don't buy that house it has too small of a master bedroom".

I realize that I'm giving in and doing what I always tell people not to do by responding to such a post, I mean who cares if some guy that bought a VW months ago doesn't like the P5? Either he has way too much time on his hands or isn't as happy with the VW as he puts on if he's test driving a Mazda now.

If there really was just one perfect car out there then a lot of car companies would go out of business. There are plenty of cars that I think or horrible and yet there are people that love them. Choice is a great thing and 50 people can make different ones and each persons choice is the correct one for them.. I know when people post bad things aobut the cars they are also just sharing their opinion but why bother? If you don't own one and aren't asking for advice or opinions to help with your problem or solution then there has to be something more productive to do.

One of the things I like about owning a Mazda is the other Mazda owners. When I was first considering the P5 I hit the thursday night chat and found everyone very helpful. I told them the other caars I was considering (including the VW) and got fair level headed comments on them. No one said "the VW" stinks, don't buy it" They said "drive them both" They did point out the mazda handled better but there wasn't any bad mouthing.
okay, enough ranting from me.

ashutoshsm

If you read the Mazda 6 reports, you'll notice a base 2.3l 4 cylinder 165+HP base engine. I'm thikning it would be easy to move this over to the Protege/Protege5! The European and Asian Proteges already have this option, IIRC.

Is there a way to lobby Mazda for engine choices - especially now that DX, LX and ES,a s well as P5 have the same engine? Its fair to demand a better engine in the ES and P5, for a reasonable price premium.

Oh, and while we have VW Jetta trolls here, let me mention that the Jettas handling and driving dynamics are quite a joke compared to the new Proteges. In fact the 5 speed 1.8T I drove, felt noticably less confident and had way more roll than my 95 pro DX :-)

Excellent overall comparison, bluong1!

bluewolf

Alot of the VW's were made in Germany up until around 2000. Don't recall Germany being a 3rd world country..

Yes its true, most of them now are made in Mexico, but some of the parts are german.

vocus

So where is the moderator now to start deleting posts and chastising people? Exactly, just what I thought. Anyway.

Bluong: I have to disagree with one comment made in your comparo. You said the Protege holds its value better than the Jetta does. Not true. My 2001 Protege ES with 18K on it's only worth $11,000 now, and it's only 8 months old. VWs do hold their value better. Of course, VWs also seem to cost alot more than the Proteges do as well.

mazdafun

Come back in five years and if the Jetta is still solid, you can crow about its build quality.

I've sat in VWs (still and moving). Initially, they feel nice. After a few years, there're jitters everywhere. After several years, it's a cacaphony, with extra noise coming from the engine, exhaust system, transmission, and the solid door rattling around in their frames.

My friends' experiences are whey I didn't even consider any offering from VW.

Maybe they've improved, but keep in mind that in W. Germany, VWs are considered amongst the lower rungs of quality.

You may get lucky and have an excellently-assembled VW, but the statistical data points out that all VW models are BELOW average (this includes ALL vehicles, such as those from Ford, GM etc...nice company, eh?). Proteges rank as well above average, up there with Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas.

toivo

In my case the reason was simple. The local VW dealership had managed to convince me not to deal with them, and they weren't interested in dealing anyhow. I got a decent (though not spectacular) deal on a Protege5 and of all the cars that I test drove it was the best handling (this includes the base Eclipse, btw.) and most fun to drive. The added security features of the VW do help to justify the price difference, but the Protege5 was already as high as my budget would go.

As far as handling and sedans go, the 2001 Sentra SE with performance package is something worth looking at as well. I was very impressed. However, I preferred the aesthetics of the Protege5, as well as the utility, and the local dealers were all out of Sentra SEs.

I had also read enough bad experiences with the VW 2.0 engine and power windows that I was a bit leery of it. As to the power issues, I test drove an automatic Protege5, and was very unimpressed by the transmission's behaviour and feel of power. The manual (which I now own) I have loaded up with four adults, and it still feels more than decent on the interstate. It isn't fast on paper, but it sure feels fast and peppy! (My previous car was a 1987 Honda Accord, for reference.)

revka

A post was deleted because it was not within the guidelines of our Town Hall rules. In addition, other posts that were in direct response to this problem post, were also deleted for the sake of continuity. Let's please try to stay on topic, and also respect and interact with fellow members as you would in any public arena. For further clarification on our guidelines, please refer to the Member Conduct section of our Town Hall Membership Agreement. Thanks.

One more thing: if you see a problem, feel free to send me an email. Please realize that since we (hosts) do not monitor these discussions in real time, it's possible that you may come across an objectionable post before we do. In the meantime, we'd appreciate it if you would not respond directly to it; but instead wait for a Town Hall host to handle the matter. We appreciate your concern, but understand that your responding directly to a problem will most likely just add to the problem that you're reacting to. Thanks for your patience and understanding.

And now, back the discussion of the Mazda Protege5. Happy Motoring! ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center boards.

boopoppa

did anyone see the recent CD review of cars under $25k? among the lineup was the mp3, wrx, celica, mustang, camaro...

of course, what really got my gears turning was the fact that the mp3 ranked first in fastest speeds thru the slalom course!

now, the pro5 doesn't have as nice of a setup as the mp3, but still, they're cousins :-)

bluong1

Yes, I read the review and I'm also very pleased with it. Someone finally judge rightly the car by its overall balance rather than its raw HP number.

Sporin

The article boopoppa is talking about was in Road & Track and didn't necessarily "compare" the cars. It was an article about all the great cars available for less then $25k. It was not a comparo, and I don't recall them choosing a ""winner." How could they? They were looking at vastly different cars, from the WRX, to the new Altima, to the Camaro.

Car & Driver did a comparison article on the Impreza 2.5RS, Sentra SE-R Spec-V, Neon R/T, MP3, and Jetta 1.8T. The MP3 won that test, despite the SE-R winning nearly every performance catergory. They just liked the MP3 better overall, low-HP or not.

bluong1

FYI, Mazda Protege5 screensaver (PC & Mac) and brochure (pdf format) can be downloaded at http://www.mazdausa.com

(Go to Protege5 and Gallery).

I haven't tried the screensaver (my computer is runing with unix OS).

Bruno

glennisf

I've had my 5 speed PR5 for 2 weeks and about 900 miles. Yesterday, the weather got pretty cold up here in NJ. When I started the car, I heard rather prominent metallic rattle. It sounded like it was coming from close to the dash on the passenger side. The sound stopped after the car warmed up. Has anyone else heard this? Is it normal?

samsvoc

I've had my Pro5 for 1 week now and I also notice a rattle\grinding noise at start-up but only in cold weather. I hear this is "normal". I shall inquire about this noise to the dealer soon.