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Dodge Avenger

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  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    "If, when you are old enough to get your license, you test drive a Lexus with the 16" wheels, you will come to find that their performance is less than that of the 17" tires. If you know anything about tires, you could tell this just by looking at the tire designation..."

    Apparently, you know just as much about tires as you do about Avengers. I have never questioned whether the 17" package would offer greater performance over the 16" package as offered. I merely asked if you'd driven it equipped as such. That's all.

    "You don't know anything about me; you don't know what I do or don't know. I DO know that leather is easier to clean than cloth. That is not the reason for choosing cloth. My wife and I want cloth because leather gets hot and we don't want to burn our kids' butts when they are old enough to be out of child seats. And we plan on keeping the car for a very long time, which is also why I am not concerned about the higher resale value of leather (another fact that I DID know) that we will be passing on..."

    I've schlepped two young'uns around on (gray) leather for six years now. It's routinely in the hundreds out here in the summer, and nobody's ever burned a butt. However, not wanting to burn baby butts is commendable.

    Your kids, once you finally have them, are going to be in child seats for about five years, maybe longer, the way new laws are proliferating. A Corolla-based sedan will be less than comfortable when the first is about two years old. Unless you aren't planning on this as your primary family car, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts you'll be shopping again a lot sooner than you think.

    Then again, it IS silly for me to try to give you any advice, especially unwanted! You seem to know so very much already!
  • 99miata99miata Posts: 14
    You don't know the depth of my knowledge - you don't know me. You only know what I DO say; not what I don't. You obviously can't read well, because you obviously didn't get my point that, while I don't personally have interest in Avengers, that doesn't mean I wouldn't attempt to kindly offer advice to someone who is considering one.

    I do really care what the poster wanted; I did not post in order to "rant for fun" (that is what you have been doing). (In fact, I find arguing with you is not fun - but you started it; instead of just offering your own advice, you feel you must compensate for your own feelings of inadequacy by belittling others.) Once again, you demonstrate that you are an ignorant a-hole by making assumptions about people you don't know. Insulting my vocabulary with no basis - another sign of you being an ignorant prick.

    The poster is asking about a specific car because he is considering it; he didn't say he was set on getting an Avenger. When I shop for a car, I don't care to know all the specific details in the beginning. I just want to know whether it is reliable in general. Or general areas where such a model could be prone to problems.

    Apparently, you are too stupid to even remember what you asked because you didn't just ask if I had driven the IS with 16" wheels; you asked if I LIKED the 17" or 16". And I politely answered you. I actually know a lot about tires (and, no, I don't claim to be an expert on everything like you) but I guess I better not get into that with you, or anything else. Apparently, you think you are an expert on everything in life, from vocabulary to Avengers to tires to kids. Too bad you aren't an expert on human relations. I think you post just because you like to argue, insult, and be a jackass. In those areas, you have succeeded. I didn't come here to argue. Whether you like it or not, I just came by to offer a solicited opinion on a vehicle. You don't get to be the judge of whether or not others are "worthy" to post an opinion.

    As for the IS, my wife prefers cloth, and that is fine with me. I don't insist on leather. And you are right on one thing: I don't want - or need - your advice.
  • thankyou for your information, the car was sold to someone else but i will be looking at a few newer avengers. i also thank anyone else who provided me with good information. thanks again
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    "Whether you like it or not, I just came by to offer a solicited opinion on a vehicle. You don't get to be the judge of whether or not others are "worthy" to post an opinion."

    So we finally get to the point that you have no facts to post, but only your opinions, to which you are duly entitled, as I said from the start, so long as they are framed as what they so obviously are: opinions. I have never sat in judgement on your right or ability to offer an opinion.

    "I do really care what the poster wanted..."

    Claptrap. He asked for mechanical issues on a '95 Avenger. Even after 23 total posts on the thread, you still haven't offered the least bit of factual info on a Dodge Avenger, other than it had a stablemate from Chrysler and you couldn't care less about it. Very useful.

    "I don't claim to be an expert on everything like you..." I don't claim to be an "expert" on anything germane to automotive topics, but I certainly have relevant facts at my disposal on this particular topic, don't I? That's something you haven't offered in the least.

    Rather than return with any factual information on the subject matter general, specific or otherwise, you choose to resort to name calling and other third-grade-level taunts.

    I've never posted in the Miata topic. Know why? I've never owned one, worked on one or even read extensively about them. I have nothing to offer in an in-depth discussion on Miatas other than they look good and have power going to the correct wheels. That's why I don't post in the Miata thread. You keep saying I don't know what you know. Well, you're in a thread about Avengers; why don't you just show us all what you do know!

    Thought not...
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    You're welcome, Avenger.

    Sorry it didn't work out, but this wasn't exactly a golden opportunity.

    A '98 or later would be, as I said, a much better bet, and if you prefer not to have a manual (I prefer the manual in this car), try to get an ES with the 2.5L six. By '98, the 4-speed automatic is pretty darn bug-free. Also, the timing belts on the six are good to 105K miles.

    Again, Good Hunting!
  • 99miata99miata Posts: 14
    Since I do care about what the poster wanted, I won't waste space arguing with you anymore. But I did post a fact that Dodge vehicles are, in general, not reliable and not well-built. Having owned a Dodge and knowing others who have [owned Sebrings, the mechanical twin], and seeing consistent data in print to this effect, I believe this is a general statement of truth. Deny it all you like, whale-bait. And it was YOU that started the name-calling and "third-grade taunts" - once again, you have no memory. Go back and read the early posts.

    Good luck to you, the Avenger-seeker. I honestly hope you get one that is trouble-free. For your sake, I hope Chrysler quality has improved, even if the hard data isn't showing that to be the case.

    PS - you want facts? See the 4/00 issue of Consumer Reports (2000 was the last model year they made the Avenger). You don't have to trust my opinions or stated facts. Trust all the people who reply to CR's annual auto survey - all the owners of Avengers who report on them. I'll save you the flipping time - it's on page 42. The Avenger's reliability gets a black dot - the worst rating (it means "much worse than average"). It also got a black dot for [owner] satisfaction. These are the OWNERS making these ratings. I quote, "Reliability has been poor. This is the last year for the Avenger/Sebring pair."

    From the 2000 CR Buying Guide, page 277, "Used Cars to Avoid": 95-97 Dodge Avenger (they sold so few of them in '98 that CR had insufficient data for the 98 model year & at the time of publication, the survey for '99 models was not complete. Also note '95 was the debut year, so for all years they had sufficient data, it was a used car to avoid.) On page 286, you can see a breakdown of its reliability data. Most troublesome areas: electrical & [body] integrity, then hardware, then brakes, then ignition, and then paint/trim. All of these areas received below average marks. All but the last two areas received the dreaded black dots. Again, these are owners' statistics. Strangely, these are the same problem areas our neon has had so much trouble with. But I guess you would call that coincidence. Whatever.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Finally some relevant data!

    And you had to go digging to find a two-friggin'-year-old copy of your beloved CR to do it, because you don't actually know ANYTHING! It comes to the same conclusion I offered numerous posts back: Pass. Imagine that! Seems a '95-'97 is a risky proposition: well, whaddaya knowbout dat?

    Conveniently, your bathroom reading search contains nothing on the years I suggest looking at. Now THERE'S a coincidence. Your Neon shares an engine block with the Avenger/Sebring, and that's about it, BTW, so call it whatever YOU want.

    You could try Allpar, and go to the owner's web ring, so you can find some real info on the cars from real owners who actually know something about their cars. It's much more illuminating than CR, where broken stereo knobs and blown fuses get listed as "electical issues". Better yet, try dirtying your tiny nail-bitten fingers on a car once in a while. But you don't care, do you? Nope.

    Why? Well to put it in terms you'd use yourself and therefore understand, because you're a know-it-all dickless loser whose entire pathetic life is lived in the pages of old issues of magazines. The IS should be a perfect long-term car for you. See, to have children (your own at least), you'd actually have to have a set of reproductive organs, as well as the brains to actually use them. So it pretty much looks like you won't ever have to worry about growing out of a Corolla, unless you adopt.

    Shifty Joe: after you delete all the BS posts from this thread, feel free to e-mail me my notice. It's been ages since we've talked.
  • 99miata99miata Posts: 14
    Just the response I expected! - "Finally some relevant data!" Actually, all I did was get page numbers - this data was what I based my statements on all along (and I didn't hide the print source - I said it was CR). I didn't have to go digging - they're in a magazine rack in my closet. And, not that it matters, but CR is not beloved - I let the subscription run out a year ago. I had to get the year 2000 issues because that was the last year they made the POS Avenger. I explained why there was no data on the '98 and '99 model years. Any fool who wants to risk buying an Avenger of those years can feel free to do so. Its reliability history speaks for itself.

    I figured after [you] having to admit that it was relevant data (as I spoke of all along - just now getting page numbers to satisfy you), you would then: A. attempt to attack the credibility of CR (and fail miserably), and then: B. having bombed at that, you would then launch a vicious, immature, verbal assault on me personally. I don't take it personally because you don't know me and because you have just shown yourself to be the jerk I said you were all along (with your name-calling, arguing, assumptions, etc). I think most people would say the engine block is a very significant shared part, if not the most important. After all, that IS what makes the car move (its sole purpose in life) - at least, from my limited automotive knowledge , I think it is the engine that makes the car move.

    CR readers, some of which are undoubtedly mechanics, don't have to be the "under the hood" types to be able to point out obvious problems when they occur. You lose any credibility when you refer to CR data as not real. Like anyone is going to believe some website over a respected publication. We all believe everything we read on the web . BTW, I don't bite my nails, if you really want to know.

    I'm not going to respond to your silly name-calling. I will just say that I have been happily married to a 5'1" 103lb beauty for six years. We have a beautiful 2 year old daughter and our second child is due in January. I never planned on buying an IS, thinking it was too small, until my wife test drove a midsize Accord and was not comfortable piloting something that large. Since, after having a kid for two years, we have never had a problem fitting her stuff in the trunk of the neon, I figure we are safe with a similar size trunk in the IS (I have a truck, too, anyway). Plus, she loved the car and all its standard safety features.

    To the host: if you feel any or all of my posts are irrelevant and/or inappropriate, please feel free to delete them as well. Thanks.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Well, since Shifty appears to be on vacation, you can continue your idiotic diatribe for a while longer, and I will respond in kind, so that you'll comprehend.

    A) After all your silly generalizing, you actually scurried off to find some hard data to support what I'd already suggested to Avenger: PASS! I never once said he should take the car. If you'd had the brains to "find the page numbers" in the first place, and post the relevant data on the car in question, there would be nothing to discuss. I don't dispute the CR statistics, nor their recommendation. The fact that they lump their data into broad categories is irrefutable, though obviously necessary for reporting purposes.

    B) As I said, I never disputed the reliability, or lack thereof, of the '95 Avenger with you, CR, or anyone else. What your infant mind can't seem to process is that your moronic blanket statement: ...all Chrysler products (or Mitsu)" are crap; and your insistance that it is fact, is MY point of contention (what YOURS is, nobody will ever figure out). Not only is it an OPINION, it is an unsubstantiated one. You still have yet to offer a piece of hard evidence that supports it.

    Try something like: "According to the most recent JD Power IQ survey, Chrysler, at 141, as a manufacturer, has more complaints per vehicle than the industry average, which is 133."

    See, now THAT'S a fact, as opposed to hyperbole! Can't really argue with that. It certainly does not imply that everything they make is a piece of crap, though. GM, BTW, is above the average, yet Nissan is topped not only by DCX, but Ford and Mitsu, and Mazda appears nowhere in the top fifteen (#15 is Kia, at 212).

    Keep trying though. I give your full marks for tenacity. Like a puppy with a wet slipper.
  • 99miata99miata Posts: 14
    Still insulting... how disappointing.

    I told you in the beginning that my statement of the unreliability of Chrysler products (Mitsus too) was based on, in part, hard data gleaned from CR. I didn't just read that data for the first time. I got page numbers of data I had already read (years ago) because you were in denial of the facts as I stated them. Most people, unlike you, don't ask for page numbers. I gave you the name of the printed source in the beginning. Normally, that is enough. But you are not normal.

    Since "crap" is general negative term, I will rephrase my statement to say that Chrysler and Mitsu cars are generally unreliable. This is backed up by CR (see issues already mentioned). Since we are talking about a Dodge here, you can look at the poor reliability ratings of the other Dodge models on and around the same pages as I gave for the Avenger model. Flip a few pages forward and note the ratings for Honda models and then Toyota models. Note how Honda and Toyota models received a lot of full red and half red dots (better than average - excellent reliability). Then note how Chrysler/Dodge and Mitsu models received many full black and half black dots (below average - much worse than average reliability). From this data, even your feeble mind can safely conclude that reliability tends to be very consistent between the models of a particular make of vehicle. From the facts of years of reliability data, I confidently state that Chrysler products in general are unreliable. As I stated in the beginning. But you mistook it for ranting.

    Nissan's ratings have indeed declined. I believe I read something about the JD Power study in the news that said Mazda was included in Ford's ratings, which is why it didn't appear on the list. But you are talking about an Initial Quality study, which is not the same thing as Long Term Reliability.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    "Unless you like having a vehicle that breaks down. While nice-looking, as others have said, it is a modest performer, to say the least. What is more important is that it, like all Chrysler products (or Mitsu) is a piece of crap. Trust me, I own a Dodge (for another nine months -- I'm counting down) and I have read extensively about the brands. They are junk. Period. Chrysler = nice styling, roomy interiors, low price, but NO QUALITY OR RELIABILITY."

    Your own first post on the subject. Yeah, I mistook that for ranting. How silly of me.

    "Since 'crap' is general negative term, I will rephrase my statement to say that Chrysler and Mitsu cars are generally unreliable." "I confidently state that Chrysler products in general are unreliable..."

    Nice back-pedal. Toned down and getting closer to a true statement. I never mentioned Honda or Toyota. That they are the current industry leaders in quality and reliablility is not now, nor has it been a point of contention. Did I tell him not to look at a Honda or Toyota if he so pleased? NO! He asked about a Dodge Avenger, and I gave him viable, useful information on a Dodge Avenger. He didn't ask about shopping for other cars, he asked if there were any issues he needed to know about with this car. What is it you don't get?

    "From this data, even your feeble mind can safely conclude that reliability tends to be very consistent between the models of a particular make of vehicle..."

    Which duly explains why the Escort is a CR Good Bet, but the Windstar is a Reliability Risk? Of course it does.

    Again, what don't you get? An intelligent statement, such as "in general, Chrysler offerings are less reliable than Toyota and Honda", is factual, with statistical information available to back it. Only a twit would try to refute that statement, and the rest of us can enjoy the show. Somebody at least interested in offering constructive advice would have perhaps said: "You might want consider a '95 Camry coupe. They book at about the same price, though there will be a few less amenities, but the performance will be very close, and reliability should be much better." Again, hard to refute under any circumstances. But you didn't because you not only don't know, but don't care, and would rather take the opportunity to rant about all Chryslers being "junk".
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,648
    Well let's just close up the entire topic then if no one can get along. The considerable it would take to delete all posts and notify all users seems pointless. You all know the Town Hall rules on courtesy and that we discourage flaming and personal attacks on other users.

    Just so that there is something relevant to leave in archive, Consumer Reports rates the Avenger very poorly, among the worst reliability records possible.

    So I trust the original poster will take that data for whatever it is worth and let's move on.

    thank you

    MrShiftright
    Host
  • I've had a '98 since new, and 100,000 miles later, I still love it.

    The parts are getting scarce and expensive; it's had a few minor problems; but overall, it has been the best car I've ever owned.

    I've been disappointed in the design of the headlights (no parts available, just the whole module), the clearance of the front airdam, and the size of the delicate alloy wheels. 17" tires are a lot more money (with no apparent improvement in handling).

    So, although there is plenty of room for improvement, and parts are overpriced, it is still a joy to drive while listening to the Infinity sound system (with added XM satellite).

    My ES model has leather, a sun roof, electric mirrors, air, a V-6 with automatic front wheel drive, and anything else a comparable BMW has for about half the cost!
  • azgirl7azgirl7 Posts: 1
    I just traded in my Indy Red 95' ES with sunroof and leather @ 110,000 miles. I am bummed. Since I first saw the car, and in the 10 years I've owned it, I have only seen a few cars that I think look as hot as that Avenger! I don't know why. Actually, I was glad there weren't that many sold. I hate driving cookie-cutter cars! In our town of 50,000, I think mine was the only one. After 10 years and many coats of "Wet" polish by Eagle One, the thing looked brand new (EXCEPT for the VERY cloudy headlights). I even live in AZ and the car was never garaged. Also, all the bells and whistles still worked fine. People were always saying it looked like a new car. I cried when I cleaned the car out. I have sellers remorse and am thinking about buying it back from the dealer, just for the way it looked! (typical female!)

    Actually, before I could replace the headlights recently, it turned on me. The tranny went and it needed EGR valve, belts and a tune-up. With a $3000. bill looking at me, and the prospect of another brutal desert summer upon us, I figured I better give it up. It was generally a reliable car though. I can't complain. If I had the money, they'd have never gotten the car away from me! I just couldn't afford to keep the car fixed up for the long haul. :-( Mechanics say casually, "oh, that'll be $900. to fix". Like it's NOTHING! I would have loved to have kept the car till it was a "antique". Oh well. Of course I had to see a very sharp black one in town this weekend, to make me feel worse!
    For anyone's info.(flavenger) I found new after-market headlamp assemblys for it for $140.+ $10 shipping each at BB Auto parts, out of the Bronx, NY
  • macruadhimacruadhi Posts: 1
    I just bought a 97 Avenger with remote entry that doesn't work. I would like to know where the module is so I can remove and replace it with a working model. Thanks,
    Eric Rogers
  • I was wondering if any one has a doc 4 cyl. and how difficult is it to so the timing belt?

    ;) "> Thanks
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    If you have issues with another member in the discussion, take it to the Host and do not take matters into your own hands in the discussion. It derails the discussion.
  • ilikemycarilikemycar Posts: 1
    dose anyone know the engine vin number of the dodge avenger it would be a big help and if anyone know the 3000gt vin number that would help to

    i have both cars but im in texas and my cars are in new york so any for will help
  • armando_21armando_21 Posts: 1
    I would like to replace the existing automatic transmission on my 95 avenger es that has the 2.5L V6 with a manual transmission. Does anyone know if there is a tranny from another car that will fit this engine? I've heard that a manual transmission from a four cylinder avenger will work but i don't know if i should believe this. Thanks to anyone who can answer.
  • I bought my Avenger 4 cylinder way back in 96, brand new off the lot!! I loved it then, I love it now. I love it so much that I just bought a twin for it, well sort of, I just picked up an immaculate 96 EV Avenger, turns out the previous owner was a little slow on the auto knowledge. He couldn't get it going, I offered him $800.00, he accepted, it needed a new battery and a starter. The only other things I will do to it will be new tires for those hot rims, New wipers and an oil change!!
    Say what you want in terms of critism, you like it or you don't. I expect that anyone is the same, you have the makes of cars you like and don't like. If you are looking to buy a car, ask questions like; What do I need in a vehicle, this helps determine just you should put money towards.
    You may also want to ask if comfort or power are the prime targets, you sacrafice one for the other, lets face it, Vets are not the most comfortable cars but they go. Avengers..... damn they look good just sitting there, I don't need to go fast!!
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