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Scion xA

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Comments

  • I think that the xA looks much more sporty than the Aveo. As a sedan, the Aveo is hideous.

    Let's not forget that the Aveo is a Daewoo product.
  • civicwcivicw Posts: 135
    vehicles? Then all the affluent folks could buy a baby Lexus for their "trendsetter" kids. With the relatively high prices that Toyota wants to charge for these sub-compact cars, Lexus might be the way to go. That would also avoid the huge overheads of setting up Scion sub-dealerships.

    I think there is a very basic obstacle to Scion becoming successful: Toyota's corporate strategy of setting high prices/profits for their "youth" models like the Matrix and xA is in direct conflict with it's goal of getting younger customers.
  • vadpvadp Posts: 1,025
    The Aveo sedan doesn't look bad at all judging by the available pictures.
    "The South Korean-built car was penned by Italdesign, and it will be offered in four-door and five-door configurations."
    BTW, as the most posters agreed, PRICE is the most important factor in this sector.
    The xA and xB have too much technology (design/build complexity) in these entry level cars to be competitively priced to the Daewoo design. And as far as being a Daewoo design...
    Just look at the Huinday Elantra that is rapidly changing the perception of being cheaply build and unreliable.
  • odmanodman Posts: 309
    In Canada, we are not going to be getting Scions. Instead, Toyota will be importing the Yaris 3-door/5-door and calling it the ECHO hatchback.

    I'm not sure what an Xa offers over an ECHO hatch apart from sheetmetal that is a bit more aggressive. Seems like a lot of risk/effort on Toytota's part.

    http://www.echohatchback.toyota.ca/#
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Geez. An underpowered, 105 HP 1.5 liter engine. Wonder if anyone will order one with the automatic transmission. To turn a Scion into a Lexus, you first need a few L badges. Then, you need a tan interior with warm colors. Then, a Mark Levinson stereo is on order. Don't forget wood trim, a 5 speed automatic with tiptronic, an excellent warranty, and a price tag around $25K. Sounds like the BMW 3-Series Hatchback a few years back. Not too sucessful. I think that the Scion probably will flunk. Who'd buy a $17K underpowered compact car when an Accord LX stickers for about the same? With $17K, I'd rather buy the Accord, wouldn't you? The Accord has a much stronger 2.4L 160HP 4 cylinder, more room, and a better resale value. Only thing the Scion has that the Accord does not is that Mark Levinson, (oops, a Pioneer) stereo system. You could almost buy a Dodge Caravan with the 17K! The xB doesn't sound good either. The xB needs that tan interior, the Mark Levinson stereo, well, you get the picture.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...with automatic, less than $13.3k. I'm not the marketing target [only about 40 years too old], but would love to have one of these in our garage as our every-day runaround car so that the Mercedes gets used only on long trips. Not the market that Toyota had in mind, but all automotive marketing is voodoo anyway.

    As for the general idea of Scion, I do agree that this is a big waste of money and is likely to be seen as a huge flop. But the xA [nee IST] is a neat car and deserves to succeed independently of what badge it wears. It certainly seems like a practical alternative to anyone who values good fuel consumption, practicality, and reliability...but this whole business of trying to find new customers for Toyota via this medium seems to be doomed to failure. Only the "Marketeers" believe in this business of targeting cars specifically to a given demographic - somehow, the real-world market never quite behaves the way they expect it to...
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    Edmunds gives the two Scion vehicles, the xA and xB, very favorable reviews. It also gives the whole Scion concept a thumbs up!

    "One thing is certain, Scion is the real deal and, based on product alone, it should be a runaway success. Scion cars will go on sale June of 2003."

    Read it here:

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/96284/article- .html?tid=edmunds.h..reviews..18.*
  • DOes anyone know if these vehicles will be availabe in the Canadian Market?
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Posts: 518
    malibu_jack-

    I don't think they will, at least not initially, but Canada will be getting the 2004 Toyota Echo Hatchback, which is similar to the Scion xA.

    -Andrew L
  • mikusmikus Posts: 109
    > In Canada, we are not going to be getting
    > Scions. Instead, Toyota will be importing the
    > Yaris 3-door/5-door and calling it the
    > ECHO hatchback

    Lucky you :) They should bring Yaris here at the first place. Instead, they made this ugly, disproportioned Echo. Umph!
  • buggywhipbuggywhip Posts: 188
    I dunno, the Scion concept seems no different than the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix--also swoopy hback/mini-SUVs. Sales of the Vibe/Matrix have been OK, but hardly stellar. (they're hugely discounted in my area.) So why does Toyota think that even SMALLER and less powerful variants of that theme will sell?? Someone help me out here.
  • levine90levine90 Posts: 21
    The xA is what the Echo should have been in the US to begin with. Its more agressive styling better suits the platform, and without a doubt would have pulled in more younger buyers. The Echo sedan is disproportionate, pointlessly bulbous and mired with overpriced "options" that should have been standard when it was introduced -- and this is coming from a person who drives one! I wouldn't say the 105hp engine is underpowered, because my Echo zips around pretty quickly. And the utility of the hatchback is certainly something I would have appreciated - not to mention the platform looks a lot better in hatchback form. Also, it's priced right - a Toyota under $13k, comfortably equipped (which the Echo wasn't) will sell no matter how you figure it.

    However, unless I'm drastically overestimating the intelligence of the car buying public, the xB will fail horribly. No American driver in their right mind wants a vehicle with nothing but 90 and 180 degree edges, no matter how many watts the stereo puts out. I think Toyota overestimated the US demand for a car like this, because although it's fairly coveted in Japan, I can't see even the most extreme of "import modification enthusiasts" wanting to drive it around here.

    Unless Toyota puts out something spectacular under the Scion name within the next year or two - Celica grade engine, attractive styling and within the same general price range - I think it's doomed to failure. The xA should have been the Echo in 2000, and the xB should have never reached the shores here.

    And, for what it's worth, I'm also in the target demographic - 19 and a guy.
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    because it was not within our Town Hall guidelines. To those concerned: Please check your email. We invite you to edit your message and post it back into this discussion.

    Thanks for your participation! ;-)

    Revka
    Host/Hatchbacks & Wagons
  • autobarnautobarn Posts: 3
    Hoping to get more discussions going about the Scion (especially the xA). For anyone else confused about official pricing, please check out Scion's website (not sure if I'm allowed to post it) or read Edmunds review.

    I think it's remarkable what you are getting for their prices. Under 13k?!?! In standard kit it has everything you could possibly need (ABS, power everything, killer stereo, etc). I can't see how anyone would buy an Echo (which costs more comparatively equipped). I remember pricing out the Echo and it came out to over $15k! Now I can get a loaded Scion xA with auto for under $14k. Great deal. Having said that I'm still undecided about the Scion division strategy.

    By the way, I'm a mid 20's guy living in an urban area where parking is very difficult. I was considering a MINI just because of it's size to find parking spots (143 inches), but the Scion xA is only 10 inches longer, which is great considering it has 2 extra doors. Granted the MINI is supposed to handle like a slot car and come with more advanced technology, but I think the Scion might be a better fit for what I'm looking for: cheap, basic transportation, smartly styled (I like the xA Peuguot styling), reasonably roomy, fun to drive.
  • jontyreesjontyrees Posts: 159
    I'm a Brit living in the US for going on 20 years, and I'm finally seeing signs of a less conservative approach to cars. For years, Japanese and European buyers have evaluated cars on whether they meet their needs, rather than on whether their neighbour will think them weird. Over here, if your car didn't have a trunk, you might as well have had two heads - unless of course you jack it up a few inches, apply knobby tires, add a thousand pounds and call it an SUV. For city dwellers, these Scions look like excellent cars, although they're probably not ideal for the wide open spaces of the West.

    A light car with 105hp should be plenty fast enough - again for urban areas. That presents a bit of a dilemma as far as the transmission goes. The 5sp would obviously be preferable with a small engine, but since the car is best suited for city work, you might be better off with the automatic - stop'n'go traffic is a real pain with a manual.

    Take a look around in London or Paris or Tokyo, and you'll see loads of strange looking vehicles that would give most US consumers a heart attack, (the Swatch that is all over London is pretty unusual), but which are fuel efficient and very parkable.

    I just downsized from a '99 Trooper to a '02 Suzuki Aerio SX (wagon - oops I said the W word), and I'm so much happier with it. I think these new Scions will make a lot of sense to a lot of people.

    Jonty Rees in West Austin, TX - the SUV capital of the world.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...couldn't have said it better myself.

    However, why this couldn't have been accomplished without spending 10s of millions of dollars on a new brand name to appeal to the "younger crowd" is the big mystery to me.

    Prediction: the xA will sell well; the xB won't; and sales will be to a mix of age groups that will be far off the target as set by the marketing mavens. And everyone will stand around scratching their heads and wondering what all of this was about in the first place.

    An xA could easily wind up in our garage - but I'm 58...does that make the car a success or a failure?
  • autobarnautobarn Posts: 3
    I would think the xA and xB would cannibilize sales from the Echo and the Matrix, whether or not they are under the Scion name or Toyota brand.

    Personally I think the Echo is a disaster (appearance-wise), and that the European Toyota Yaris is what should have been brought in the first place. Now Canada will be getting the Yaris (they are calling it Echo Hatch) this summer. The US will not unfortunately.

    Either Toyota should bring the Yaris to the US or replace it with the xA...both models are practically the same anyway. Why have both? It's not like the Echo sedan offers better looks or utility.

    Having said this, I really don't care if the xA and xB are in Toyota dealerships or Scions dealerships. Just as long as the service is good, the dealership is nearby, resale value holds up.
  • mikusmikus Posts: 109
    > I'm a Brit living in the US for going on 20 years,
    > and I'm finally seeing signs of a less conservative
    > approach to cars. For years, Japanese and European
    > buyers have evaluated cars on whether they meet their
    > needs, rather than on whether their neighbour will
    > think them weird.

    Cannot agree with that. I think that american market and auto market in particular is very precisely calculated by marketing departments. At least they think that they calculate the target groups precisely. Which is why hatchback is considered to be a "youth car", and should be either cheap and stripped or loaded with megawatt sound and high-rev engine. This assumption alone is preposterous, but they go further and think that "youth" cannot live without loads of plastic crap and shiny faux "touches" inside and outside the car. Because of this one can see ugly ducklings like Aerio which is a rather pretty car in its maiden form called Liana. The same goes with Protege (cheap looking shiny chrome wheels and available with skirts only) and Matrix (cheap shiny faux chrome and aluminum and the most powerful XRS is available with skirts only).

    The approach is still the same: find the target group and make the product for it. Nothing wrong with this idea. But the problem that they cannot identify the target group correctly. Hatchback can appeal to everybody and the one and only "boy-racer" image of this body type brought manufacturers to what we can see now. Good cars in their barebones, but covered with tastless bells and wistles. Even VW stopped to make 5-door with 1.8T, and puts this engine on 3-door GTI only, probably because it is a sporty engine, and a sporty car must have 3 doors. Ha!
  • kaz6kaz6 Posts: 331
    Has anyone been able to sit in an Xa yet? I'm curious about how the rear seat space is compared with the ECHO 4-door.
    For those skeptics worried about having only 105hp...you can ride with me while I go 80+mph! Light weight and aerodynamics do wonders for a car!
    Cars in the USA are definitely very conservative and I wish we could get more of the 'hot hatches' available overseas! The Mercedes A-Class is one that I would love if I had the money!
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    The real factor here is price. What else is sold at this price, with this much content and this much style?

    Even if you do not like looks, Scion cars have undoubtedly more presence than the Korean and American cars that they are in competition with.

    If they also manage to implement a Saturn like dealership experience I think this brand could do very well.

    I actually like the 80's throwback style of the xB, and at 13 grand with all those options I would be tempted by such inexpensive transportation. I think it's great. This area of the market has been overlooked for so long. Bout time somebody gave us interesting options with good content for under 15k.

    Now Scion just needs a lighweight two seater like the old CRX or the Smart roadster coupe IMO. Something lighweight and well sprung so you can make the most of that echo engine. I'll bet they do a mini urban SUV next though.
  • taurus2taurus2 Posts: 63
    As a "teen," please allow me to express my opinion. I always wonder why car companies try to make cars look so wierd, and gaudy to appeal to kids. As a senior in High School, most kids drive Accords, Camrys, Passats and Maximas. I'm 18 and I drive a 2000 Toyota Camry. I love my car. It had clean lines, and doesn't look so strange. It just baffles my mind on how these Scion cars are trying to look cool. I don't want to start anything or make people mad but thats just on my 2 cents.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    The xB is definitely out there. However, the xA is much more mainstream, and if I fit well in its compact size, I wouldn't mind driving one. It should be an exceptional value. All it is really is a lesser-performance, more efficient, more practical, and muscular Mini Cooper. Aren't they sizes relatively the same, the xA may even be bigger? something like 9 inches?
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Well these cars were not made for the US market. They were designed for the japanese market, and from what I read they are pretty popular (especially the xB). Hey if Pokemon did great over here right??? (jk). I know what is cool in one market is not always in another.

    I don't think these cars were really meant for high school kids anyway. Not that many high school kids buy their own cars. Also they often have unrealistic dreams when it comes to the cars they think they are going to be able to own.

    I think Scion is more for 20 some things and college kids. People who have taken care of their own financial situation long enough to realize that the Porsche, 350z, Corvette they thought was just around the corner might never come, and that it wouldn't fit their life style and budget anyway. So their desires adjust according to their situation.

    Only the true car nuts are willing to live in the poor house to own a sexy sports car.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    I think you hit the nail on the head. 16-18 year olds in high school a) don't typically have the money for a new car and b) want something flashy, expensive and fun. That's not Scion. Scion will sell (hopefully, for Toyota) to a young adult crowd that recognizes the true value in the vehicle.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    Everytime I see the xA, I'm liking it a bit more. I can't believe it doesn't offer cruise control. It would be nice if it did have a moonroof, but that goes against the purpose and simplicity of Scion. If I had another better-appointed car, I'd definitely have an xA as an economical short distance driver. It looks fun and I haven't heard a bad review of it or the xB as of yet.
  • stragerstrager Posts: 308
    I'm in Northern California and have been trying to get info on a Scion city tour starting April 24th in San Diego, as posted on the Scion web site. Thought this would be a great opportunity to check out the xA before sales start in June.

    Unfortunately, the Scion web site has not been updated and those answering the Scion toll free number don't know any more than what's posted on the web site (that's what I was told by the customer service rep).

    Not what I expected from Toyota...
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Check out Edmunds' Full Road Test of the 2004 Scion xA, and let us know what you think....

    image

    Thanks for your comments!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • scooter71scooter71 Posts: 56
    The xA or xB review mentioned a LEV rating for Scions. What's the deal with Toyota lowering their environmental standards?

    This is a big disappointment to me.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    the car is a DEAL. no need to worry about emissions......with all the gas you save, its green enough.
  • rayrockrayrock Posts: 14
    I'm looking for a replacement for my civic. the xA would make a great commuter car cheap, easy on gas, and small enough to park in the city. unfortunately, like the echo, it doesn't have cruise control so its out of contention. excellent design otherwise.
This discussion has been closed.