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Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    $31,412 sounds about right with the current "everyone gets the GM employee price" promotion. A six-speed stick is around $30,300, the auto is a few hundred more, and the 18" wheel option is another $500 list.

    I am not aware that there is a non-GM owner incentive. I'd question that more than anything.

    As to whether or not the dealer has it in stock, use GMBuyPower and search that particular dealership's inventory. This doesn't necessarily indicate stock status, since GTO's are shown in the dealer's inventory when they get a VIN number/ship from the docks in Benecia, CA. It takes awhile to get from their through the Fairfax, KS railyard, to the closest railyard to you, and then by truck to the dealer.

    If they do have it they haven't had it long, as the 18" wheel option started assembly in early March. It takes about 3 months to go from the factory to the dealer - up to a month waiting to fill a boat, 4 weeks for the boat trip, and then up to 4 weeks to get the spoiler installed and the vehicle shipped to the dealer.

    I've seen the 18" wheels in person (Chicago Auto Show), and they're OK, but not great. I do prefer them to the stock wheels and, for only $500 more, that's not bad (compared to the cost of selling the stock wheels and tires, buying new wheels and tires). Here's a picture from Pontiac's web site:

    image

    18" wheels and tires may be a tradeoff if the roads are junk where you live. I wouldn't dream of trying to drive a car with the 18" wheels and tires (Bridgestone Potenza RE040's, IIRC) in wintertime.

    I much prefer the Monaro CV8-R wheels:

    image

    I will probably end up getting these (about $1600 for the wheels, shipped from Oz) when my stock tires are shot.

    --Robert
  • johnv43johnv43 Posts: 9
    I called the dealer, and he retracted the 1,000 non-GM owner rebate on the GTO. He stated that he was mistaken, and that it only applies to the Vibe, he thinks. How anyone could mistake a Vibe for a GTO is puzzling. Just one more unethical tactic to lure the customer into the dealership. The dealer is the large shop in west suburban Chicago. My interest in buying now has waned, and this dealer is off my list. Oh, and he "doesn't know" if it is in stock. Sorry for reporting this bogus rebate prematurely.
  • danf1danf1 Posts: 935
    I don't know the dealer and really can't defend his or her tactics, but if you've ever seen a program sheet from GM it can be very confusing. Even for someone who has been looking at them for years, it is easy to make a mistake.
  • coreyvhcoreyvh Posts: 3
    I bought a 2004 before all this GM price thing. So here is my questions does anyone out there have a 2004 Auto? I owned a 2002 GTP until it got T-boned I kept in great shape it had tons of torque and power. Now the questions comes. I was wondering has anyone else bought a 2004 GTO and are not really satisfied with the Engine output. I swear my 2002 GTP had more power. Check it out I did the whole work the engine in before taking it to the streets. I chnaged the oil at thousand miles put in premium Synthetic. If I get on it at a dead stop it has a whole lot of growl but no Bite.. Meaning This is an LS1 Boys it should burn the tires Right? Well it doesn't I can get it to get a little squirely on a corner but not straights what I'm afraid of is I take off against a Tang and it takes me I will be really disappoited. I bought this car thinking it was an upgrade to the GTP a muscle car of Old and it doesn't appear that way to me. Next question is this car a fly by wire? On the throttle body is there a second vlave that is limiting my air intake. I mean I couls spend lots more money beefing it up but dang it shoudl already be there. Anyone else having any Power problems? Thanks :cry:
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    I have a 2004 Auto and my wife used to have a 2001 GTP sedan, so I'm familiar with both engines. My GTO is WAY faster. Here are some concerns

    1) Traction Control turned off? Be careful, don't leave T/C off going around curves unless you're familiar with a RWD car... otherwise you'll lose the rear end and spin her out. Best to try this in an empty parking lot (like your local high school on a weekend).
    2) A/C turned off? This does sap power.
    3) How many miles on your car? I have 2300 miles on my '04 (pulled it out of storage a little over 2 months ago) and I can feel it getting stronger - chirping the tires on the 1-2 shift, plus the exhaust getting louder.

    Having said that, torque management is pretty strong on the Auto cars. Consider getting a device like the DiabloSport Predator (http://www.diablosport.com). This is a handheld tuner that you can use to change your car's computer settings - reduce/remove torque management, increase shift line pressure, et. al. Kind of requires you to know what you are doing, but it does have a default "performance tune" that you can download - will really make your car feel more powerful (can always reload the stock tune if you don't like it or need to take the car in for service).

    The '04's are NOT "drive by wire" - there is a throttle cable. The '05's are DBW, and there have been some issues...

    Remember, the GTO is 300+ pounds heavier than your GTP was. It is going to take it a little while to get going - but once you do, the GTO will pull like a freight train (3000 rpm and up), whereas the GTP tends to gasp a little around 40-45 and then around 70-75 on WOT (my experience).

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Also, double-check your throttle cable and make sure it goes all of the way open - some '04's have had improperly-adjusted cables (if there's a lot of slack in yours, this might be a problem), or, on some the adjuster hasn't been locked into place, meaning the cable keeps adjusting itself. Would definitely get this checked out. If nothing else, find a good speed shop and get your car dyno'd... if you're underpowered, this can then become a service/warranty issue...

    --Robert
  • coreyvhcoreyvh Posts: 3
    NO i checked the throttle cable. I have a friend that has use to a dyno so I guess that's where I will head next. thanks for the input if nanyone else has anything to offer that would be great thanks again guys.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Another couple of questions:

    1) What's the altitude where you are?
    2) Temperature? Humidity?

    Both will affect performance...

    I *think* the dealer can check the throttle cable using a Tech2... can anyone confirm?

    --Robert
  • coreyvhcoreyvh Posts: 3
    I'm brining it in tomorrow to have it checked out. I live in MN pretty low for altitude and temps are in the 70's 58 humidity. To answer a couple of your other questions it has 1800 miles on it. I can get it to Churp in second it has a lot of top end but it seems as thoughits lagging in low end power. I don't know maybe I was expecting something different. I guess next buy will be the diablo programmer and then the K&N and possibly throttle body..
  • jontyreesjontyrees Posts: 159
    Did you check to see that you don't have the traction control turned on? That would be my guess.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    An entire forum devoted to zaino? There must be some car nuts around here.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Sadly the '04 auto has poor low end torque although not as low as yours sounds. You should easily be able to smoke'm off the line. I drove several autos and they were awsome cars. It was a tough decision but I ultimately went for the manual just for the low end torque. Pontiac knows about that problem because they messed with the torque management in the '05 and it is supposedly faster than the manual. That predator tune that was mentioned should do the trick. Also get an aftermarket air intake. After driving an '05 it is obvious to me the breathing is so restricted on the '04 it should be a crime.

    I also have a GTP, a '98 and unfortunately it feels like a toy now.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    ...check the gap on your stock spark plugs - should be 0.5 to 0.55. Some folks on another discussion board had theirs all over the place (0.3 to 0.8).

    Another thought would be to replace the stockers with NGK TR-55's. I've got 8 of 'em, waiting to install until I have a little more time... cost me under $20.

    --Robert
  • olpalgaryolpalgary Posts: 5
    Earlier in the week my favorite dealer, told me there was a train wreck somewhere in Ohio & at least 50 new GTO's were messed up...
    I told him i'd like to go to the salvage sale get an LS2 powertrain for my Z28 & put it in..
    He said they'd most likely have to smash & bash them for insurance reasons..
    Anyone hear about or see the wrecked cars ???? :confuse:
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Yes it's true. Details:

    1) It was Iowa, not Ohio, and one train crashed into the rear of another, stopped one
    2) about 40 cars were wrecked, the rest "repairable"
    3) The wrecked cars were sold to Nordstroms Auto Salvage in South Dakota, who is parting them out:

    http://www.nordstromsauto.com

    Google for (GTO Train De-rails in Iowa) (without the parens) to find out more.

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • coresellercoreseller Posts: 40
    I only occassionally come on here to check out the gab and I just gotta say; Hammen2, you are THE MAN when it comes to all things "New GTO". I gotta say I chuckled a bit when you knew all the details regarding the train wreck. Keep up the great work for us casual fans.....Mark.
  • coresellercoreseller Posts: 40
    Oops, I forgot to ask. Anyone put Cold Air Intakes on your cars? Was it worth it? What was the cost and from where? Reason I ask; I recently bought a stock set of wheels and tires locally (current wheels will become snow tire wheels) from a guy who had put on a CAI, Boy did it ever seem to rev up faster than mine. It sounded quite a bit meaner also. Any comments? Thanks.....Mark.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    CAI's definitely help performance on the '04's - the MAF pipe is pretty restricted, at least compared to the '05's. The common 3 cone-type CAI's I've seen for '04 are K&N, Lingenfelter, and LS1Speed Inc.

    I have seen the dyno slips from an '04 owner who took his car to the track. Made one run, took a little time to install his K&N (and cool down the engine - heat soak IS an issue with these cars), ran it, cooled down, then ran it again. There was a minor improvement on the second run (car was still learning), and a major one on the third run. I have also seen the results of back-to-back dyno runs, and the second run showed a 12 rwhp improvement. I am a believer, and will probably spend the $225-$250 for a K&N at some point in the next month or so...

    I know K&N is close with their '05 LS2 intake, but, until I see dyno or track tests showing as much improvement as on the '04's/LS1, I wouldn't be the first one on the block to buy one...

    --Robert
  • I just bought a GTO last week and I am waiting for the dealer to install the sport appearance package. If any of you current or future GTO owners have not seen this go to the Pontiac GTO website and scan the pics in the photo gallery. It really sets the car apart from looking like any other Pontiac. Aside from the cosmetics the sap includes high performance mufflers and dual outlet tail pipes, looks and sounds awesome.Are there any 05 owners with the SAP?
  • gottabgtogottabgto Posts: 95
    I test drove one with the ASP.
    The dealer wanted an additional $10k for it - they had added some nice rims and bigger tires as well.
    It was nice but not the worth the extra $, imo.
    I figure I'll upgrade the wheels on my own.
    I did like the dual exhausts - that does look pretty nice.
    I bought a black automatic last month.
    Enjoy your new Goat.
  • The package i got cost $3700 and did not include upgraded rims or tires.It is $3100 if you get red,black or silver any other color and the parts come from the factory in primer and have to be painted by the dealer. I got midnight blue so i payed the extra $600 to have the parts paint matched.
  • gotmygoatgotmygoat Posts: 2
    Interested in your experience "exchanging" your GTO. I have just recently taken my 2005 GTO back to the dealership for the 4th time in two months. Same problem each time.... loss of power, CEL on, dealership unable to fix. They have taken the accelerator pedal off of other GTO's in stock and the problem continues. GM-Pontiac seems unsure of how they are supposed to handle this claim as they first directed me to the BBB-Autoline. Then they were incredulous that the BBB had sent them a report without me telling them first. In the mean time, I continue to make payments on a car that's been in the dealer's garage more than in mine.

    I not only will insist on a replacement, I am asking for the current "employee discount price" that is in effect as compensation for my dissatisfaction. :sick:
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Sounds like you are a victim of a poor service department - one that needs to call GM TAC. I know they are aware of a pedal problem relating to the drive-by-wire system on some '05's - new parts have been designed, and are in testing. Your dealership should know this, or call for help. Once they get this issue resolved, your car should be fine. (This is not at all like the situation with my car, where the firewall was improperly assembled - dealership fixed that, but messed up the suspension on my car, as well as many other things. That car was never going to be right without changing out almost all of the suspension components, and I shouldn't have to accept that for a problem caused by the dealership in the first couple of months of ownership).

    Send me an email (my contact info is in my profile) and I can get you a phone number for GM Executive Relations. You need to emphasize to them the inconvenience this situation has caused you, and the hassle of taking the vehicle back 4 times. My guess is they will offer you either free maintenance or extend your warranty for some time. Good luck on pushing for the difference in price - when my buyback happened, it was in the middle of the December GTO "fire sale" - I got a new car, but no difference in incentives :-(

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Some more info on your problem.

    There are 2 throttle position sensors on the pedal assembly... and it seems there are some intermittent failures with these sensors. When one of them "drops off", the BCM (Body Control Module) throws a SES light (code P2138), and the car drops into "reduced power" mode. Sometimes, you can make this problem go away by stopping the car in a safe area, turning it off, then turning it back on - this somehow resets the "stuck" sensor. Makes one think Microsoft had something to do with this design :-)

    There is a service bulletin on this issue. The original part for the pedal assembly is 92067194 - I believe the new part number is 92183442. The new part was "supposed to" be done by the middle of this month - have your dealership contact GM TAC and inquire about the availability of this redesigned part.

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert (GTO geek :-)
  • gotmygoatgotmygoat Posts: 2
    GTO Geek? More like GTO Guru. I'm aware of the two sensors and yes I have shut it off and turned it on. It fires back up regardless of the wait time between stop and start, goes 100 ft to 1/2 mile and fails again. Strangely enough, when the dealership has it they have to drive it for a couple of days before it fails.

    Have you heard of this happening on a 6 speed before? Mine is an automatic and the low end seems to lack power regardless. GM is supposed to call me tomorrow to make me their offer. Extended warrenty at their cost is something I would entertain since I took out the extension along with Gap insurance at the time of sale. Makes payments a bit stiff.

    Thanks for your help

    Wayne (first time GTO buyer) :lemon:
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Yes, I have heard of it happening on both six-speeds and autos. I suspect the revised part will fix this problem... that would be your best bet. Who is to say that a replacement car wouldn't have the same problem?

    I have heard of other '05 auto owners griping about slower speeds/less performance than they have expected. I believe this is due to the torque management/electronic nannying on the '05's. Us '04 owners have options - I played with a Predator tune on my first '04 - made the car an entirely different beast. Things like the Predator, EFI Live, and HPTuners are not yet ready for the '05's - I would imagine within the next couple of months they will be (I know someone who is testing HPTuners for the LS2)...

    --Robert
  • jontyreesjontyrees Posts: 159
    Just read the history lesson on Holden Commodores etc in the GTO/STi forum - very interesting. Something I've wondered is whether there were previous generations of Monaro. In talking to an Aussie buddy of mine, I thought he mentioned that it is a long running model in Australia, but I could have been wrong. BTW, he's a Porsche club racer, (in his stripped down daily driver 911, no less), and race school instructor at one of the racetracks here in Texas, (TMS maybe?). He took a GTO owner around the track in the GTO and was very impressed with it - thinks with the available power and better tires he could lap it faster than his Porsche.
  • jontyreesjontyrees Posts: 159
    nevermind - I just googled Holden Monaro History, and came up with a link to exactly that. They go back to the mid-60s - pretty cool lifeline.

    I wonder if any were featured in the original Mad Max movie - that was full of Aussie musclecars.
  • mparis1mparis1 Posts: 107
    you are right ......hammen 2 is the man...he has helped me several times.......
  • mparis1mparis1 Posts: 107
    Hammen2 guru....where can we find 2005 GTO SERVICE BULLETINS...do dealers recall their 2005s for updates....or do we have to tell them about it...with the service bulletin numbers???How about any recalls on the 2005???? thanks again.. :)
This discussion has been closed.