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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    Watch out for the nasty torque steer in the funny looking Maxima, its stiff and jiggly ride.

    That's one thing I like about the 500/Freestyle and the CVT option (I don't know if the 6-speed is the same way or not).

    It does *not* seem to have much torque steer at all. I've been attributing that to the CVT, though perhaps the 6-speed also prevents it.

    With the Taurus, the downshifts could literally rip the steering wheel out of your hands if you weren't careful.
  • 2zmax2zmax Posts: 140
    The reason why I would choose a 500 would be for its' size, available AWD and price (though it gets pretty pricey with the options).
    However the new Azera just won my heart.
    I love the way it looks.
    And from what everyone is saying it seems to be an awesome car.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    The Azera is a very nice car with lots of stuff and a warranty that you can't argue with. But when I sat in the driver's seat and then the passenger's, the spell was broken. Not comfortable, and that gets on one's nerves every time you drive
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    I didn't mention the size . . but obviously that was a consideration. It cerainly had the largest trunk of any vehicle in its class.

    As far as price with the options . . the other vehicles got more pricey with them, too.

    I think I was looking at an out-the-door price of the Freestyle (fully loaded) of 32k . . vs more like 37k for the Magnum. But then it had the Hemi, and also the Navigation system, as I recall.

    With the hemi, the 300C/Magnum actually can become TOO sensitive in the throttle, IMO. My brother commented on this with regards to one of his new vehicles (Accord, I think). While he likes the pep, he says it's too hard to precisely control the throttle response.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "My brother commented on this with regards to one of his new vehicles (Accord, I think). While he likes the pep, he says it's too hard to precisely control the throttle response."

    Thats a manufacturer's trick for people to perceive the vehicle is quick/fast, is by programming the accelerator to be sensitive at it's initial touch. From my experience, the Nissan Altima 2.5S ia the worst offended. Everytime I touched it, I kept spinning the front wheels. Took me a few days to teach myself to let it roll at first, then touch it to avoid the wheelspin.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    Thats a manufacturer's trick for people to perceive the vehicle is quick/fast

    Quite the opposite of how my Five Hundred / Freestyle (both with CVT) are programmed.

    I think this is a large part of the reason people perceive the vehicles to be "underpowered".

    I have to keep pushing more and more on the accelerator to keep the rpm's at say 3,000 rpm . . which will result in a very nice acceleration.

    If one starts with 3,000 rpm, though, and simply maintains the amount of "initial push" on the accelerator, the car will continue to accelerate (at a decelerating rate) while the rpm's start dropping back to 2,000 (or even below), until eventually levelling off at a constant speed.

    I've found that "chasing the rpm meter" is the way to get really good acceleration (and not so good gas mileage). Try to keep it at 3,000 (or even up to 4,000) until you reach cruising speed, and you won't feel underpowered at all.
  • gene_vgene_v Posts: 235
    Oh contraire! I found the Azera to be much more comfortable than the Five Hundred. About an inch more leg room and definitely more foot space. The console of the Five Hundred is much too wide. The Five Hundred is big everwhere except for the driver.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Yes, my 88 Olds 88 was that way. It felt really peppy, due to a tremendous tip-in, but got tired at nearly any speed once rolling. But it felt powerful because of that tip-in effect.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    2zmax wrote: "Even Hyundai is offering better vehicles than Ford (Azera, Sonata)and since their reliability is as spotty as the one of Fords, they at least offer the best warranty around. What does Ford offer for a Focus with 12 major recalls? a 3/36 warranty. What a joke."

    I would have thought the same regarding the phrase "Even Hyundai . . ." until I bought one. I've been buying new cars since 1968 from Domestics (Buick, Dodge, Ford, Olds), European (SAAB, Triumph, Volvo), Japanese (Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Toyota), and now Korean (Hyundai). Although my 2006 Elantra GLS is only a few months old, this is the "only" new car I've owned that has been perfect out-of-the-box. Absolutely no defects - aesthetically or mechanically. Everything simply works!

    Only time will tell on the reliability, but I've looked this vehicle over from stem to stern and everything is really well executed. My wife and I originally were planning to buy a new Ford Five Hundred or Sonata, but decided that we'd really prefer not to finance a car at the moment, hence we went downsize and downmarket, and paid cash. For a delivered price of $13,700, including TTL, we couldn't be happier with this car. And, most items that Detroit considers options (A/C, cruise control, keyless entry, power windows/locks, alarm, AM/FM/CD, etc.) are standard equipment. The powertrain is a 2 liter DOHC 16-valve engine with VVT cams, cast iron block and aluminum head, and a 4-speed automatic.

    Since we normally keep a car for at least 10 years, depreciation is rather moot negative. And, with a 5 year/60K limited warranty, a 10 year/100K powertrain warranty and a 5 year/unlimited mileage free roadside assistance, we're willing to take a "gamble" on Hyundai. As one who lived through the time when Japanese cars first hit these shores, it's my opinion that Hyundai may be mirroring the Japanese success story.

    It's only a matter of time when Hyundai will no longer be the brunt of jokes, just as the Japanese cars were when they first appeared here in the USA.
  • Hyundai is in no way as good as a Ford, The warranty is a joke (just read the fine print). A friends hyundai has cost her almost 2,000 bucks in 66 k miles, as she said "you wouldn't believe whatz not covered and how easy the warranty is voided or doesn't cover that"! OH! by the by the Hyundai steeler in Ann Arbor Michigan is full of hacks!
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    I think it depends what you compare it to:
    if you compare a 500 to a semi, then it is pretty lively
    however if you compare it to Azera, Avalon, Maxima, Altima 3.5SE, Accord V6 or Camry V6 – it is a dog.
    The Five hundred feels like the engine is going to blow up on ya, every time you push the gas pedal.
    Never understood the principle of flooring it! I want my car to have smooth and
    powerful engine, and I only need to tap on the accelerator to get it to “GO”.
    What is the point of driving this clunker, if to get it to accelerate decently I need to floor it every time?


    Fortunately for this poster, in the interest of Consumer Choice, Ford does build a car with on demand torque at any RPM. Its called the Ford Crown Victory and is now playing with a bubble gum machine at a speed trap near you.

    Mark.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    In 2005 Chrysler sold just over 144,000 Chrysler 300s.

    Ford sould about 108,000 Five Hundreds and about 27,000 Milans.

    Fords target was 125,000 combined which Ford clearly beat.

    Just because you wouldn't buy a specific car, doesn't mean that everone else won't.

    Ford sold over 901,000 F-Series. Ram P/U sales were 400,000.

    NOW that is a difference.

    Mark.
  • 2zmax2zmax Posts: 140
    "Crown Victory and is now playing with a bubble gum machine at a speed trap near you. "

    He-He-He,
    As long as his name is not Ivory Webb, I'll be Ok ;)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Yes, the F150 is a great success story. It was completely revamped in 2004 and continues to lead the field. However, Ford's overall truck sales are down, even with this mammoth success.

    In 2005 Chrysler sold 189,500 300s and Chargers. Ford sold 135,000 500s and Montegos. Not a huge difference, but still Chrysler moved nearly 55,000 more units where traditionally Ford products had been the big sellers.

    Also, Chrysler's transaction price per unit was higher. They discounted their cars less, and of course with several larger engine choices, the Chrysler products should command more money, regardless.

    And the big difference was in bottom line: Chrysler made money and Ford lost money (on their US operations). Ford cannot sustain profits alone on a couple successes like the Mustang and F150. Too many other lines that absolutely used to be best sellers are either tanking or shrinking (Ranger, Explorer, Expedition, Focus). The 500 has received a lukewarm response for a mainstream Ford. The Freestyle crossover could not even manage to outsell the Freestar last year...and the Freestar is not doing at all well against the competition.

    Sure Ford's sales projections are conservative. It has been their policy. But they lost the sense of what made the original Taurus such a hit. Belatedly in 1996, they finally updated it, apparently thinking weird was what made the original one a success. Realizing that was a goof, they added anonymity to it in 2000. Then, in a clean sheet design, they took the attractive 500 concept drawings and rendered the car as plain, innocuous and dowdy as an Audi copy could possibly be.

    The 500 is a good car, but with its lack of styling and lack of engine choices, it cannot reach the volume Ford could really use. If it had been styled more like the 427 concept, they would have had a winner, even with late introduction of the 3.5. But if wishes were fishes, we'd all be frying, or something like that. ;)
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    In 2005 Chrysler sold just over 144,000 Chrysler 300s.

    Thanks for the numbers. And I wnoder how many of those 300's were the Hemi's, 3.5L's, and the smaller engine?

    I was tempted to post that I knew the 500 had sold more than the Hemi300, and I was fairly sure it sold about as many as with the Hemi and 3.5L combined. But, I just wasn't sure of the numbers.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    The car styled more like the 427 concept is the Fusion, available right now at any Ford dealer near you. Actually, Fusion is likely closer to being the Taurus replacement in interior spaciousness and trunk size. It is almost dead on in length dimensions with the original Taurus. The original Taurus grew a few inches in length from its initial generation, and now Fusion shrinks it back a bit dimensionally to go head on with the Camcords.
    So, if 500 is too boring for you the Fusion is your better choice, along with a few less pounds of weight to haul around and a few more horses due to the VVT application of the 3.0 Duratech.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    victorydave wrote: "Hyundai is in no way as good as a Ford, The warranty is a joke (just read the fine print). A friends hyundai has cost her almost 2,000 bucks in 66 k miles, as she said "you wouldn't believe whatz not covered and how easy the warranty is voided or doesn't cover that"! OH! by the by the Hyundai steeler in Ann Arbor Michigan is full of hacks!"

    You may be right - or wrong - as for me, it is far too early to tell. All I can say is that the dealer is excellent, both in the sales and service departments, and they are very pro-customer, as is Hyundai. I've received more post-sale contact from the dealer and Hyundai, than I ever did with any other new car purchase. They want to ensure that I'm satisfied with the purchase and car.

    I've read the fine print in the warranty, and it's no different than most warranties. They expect you to adhere to the maintenance schedules, but they allow you to perform normal routine maintenance yourself, as long as you provide receipts for parts, supplies, etc. There is an extensive section in the Owner's Manual on "Do-It-Yourself" maintenance. And, their website allows registerd owners full access to all corporate TSB's, shop, parts, and technical manuals. You can even place an online order through Hyundai's website for any part or accessory for delivery to your local dealer.

    Actually, I find their warranty written in plain English and very easy to understand, plus they are very specific at what they cover and don't cover. I could care less if they don't cover windshield wiper blades after 12 months.

    Our local Ford dealer does everything it can to "not" cover items under warranty. I initially wanted to buy a Ford product (Five Hundred SEL), but the pushy salespeople and their terrible service department forced me elsewhere.

    From the latest IIHS tests, its looks like the Fusion is not as good as it should be in terms of "standard" safety features. Granted, the Five Hundred is a very safety-oriented vehicle, simply because it was based on a Volvo platform. The Fusion, on the other hand, is not one of Ford's better ideas . . . Most people here in the USA "want" to buy from the Big 3, but they don't offer what I want, or need, at a price I can afford. I fully realize this is a Ford Five Hundred forum, and I think it's a nice car. I just wish the dealer network was more customer-oriented.

    I will check back with you in a few years on this car's reliability, but from what my experience tells me based upon its initial quality, I'm not going to worry.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    I've received more post-sale contact from the dealer and Hyundai, than I ever did with any other new car purchase.

    I get enough from Ford as it is. If Hyundai sends out even MORE, add that to the list of why I wouldn't want to buy one. ;)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Yes, the Fusion has some 427 cues, but very careful ones. It is edgier than the Five Hundred, but hardly a standout in the mid-size field.

    The 500 is more like the length of the final Taurus, although many (not all) of its interior dimensions are larger. The Fusion is actually a few inches longer than the original Taurus. (Ford is still going for too much front overhang proportional to wheelbase in its designs, IMHO, like VW is doing with the Passat.)

    Ford is commendably trying to replace the Taurus with several choices to better meet a wider set of preferences in the market. The 500 meets the needs of some people, but would have done even better by adding some intriguing style. The Fusion is less anonymous (mostly due to the new Ford face), but it doesn't have initial standout to the degree that some other fresh designs have fielded.

    Does Ford need more wow factor? Not necessarily. Although the 2007 Camry is starting to show some style, the car has been a style bore since it was first conceived. However, Ford's successes have often hinged on style, so it cannot hurt, as long as it doesn't look weird like the 1996 Taurus guppy.

    For myself, I hope they turn up the volume on the next iteration of the Zephyr/MTZ (circa 2010 maybe?). Then that is what I would buy.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Fusion at 190.2" long is 1" longer than 2006 Camry, and 0.9" shorter than 2006 Accord, and wheelbase of all three is within a range of 0.8" with Fusion in the middle. Furthermore, headroom front and rear and legroom front and rear are all nearly identical with Fusion falling smack dab in between Camry and Accord, while Fusion trunk room at 15.8 cubic feet beats Accord at 14.0 and is less than Camry at 16.7 cubic feet.

    If Fusion has more front overhang than either Camry or Accord, it does not seem to be hurting either passenger space or trunk space. It appears to me space efficiency is right on par with it's major competitors. And it is not because of height either. Fusion is 57.2" tall, Accord 57.3" and Camry 58.7".
  • 2zmax2zmax Posts: 140
    Why get Fusion, if you can get the Mazda 6?
    It has better warranty and reliability. In addition it is much more fun to drive and is better looking (IMO)
    So what gives? Fusion is a mid size sedan, the 500 is a full size, so comparing to two is not appropriate.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I don't recall saying that Camry and Accord don't have as much front overhang as Fusion. The 2007 Camry has commendably increased the wheelbase a couple inches while keeping the length the same.

    The 300 is about 3 inches shorter than the 500, with a wheelbase 8 inches longer. Strangely, the 500 initially looks like the shorter car. Granted being rear drive, it is easier to get the proportions the 300 did. Same with the Cadillac STS...it is 3 to 4 inches shorter than the 500. The 500 does have a huge trunk. Many of us, however, don't need quite that much booty back there.

    Front drive doesn't dictate beaky front ends. The engine could be set back further (Acura used to do that) for better balance (less weight percentage over the front tires). More to the point, some companies (most Japanese included) install air space in front for styling purposes--apparently not noticing that abbreviated front overhang is a stylistic point selling very well on those cars offering it.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    Well, all rears and legs are different. The Azera's driver's seat has a limited range of adjustment and was not very good for me. Of course, I has just driven a v8 Lucerne which has terrific seats. Then i checked out the passenger seat in the Azera- no height or tilt adjustment and very flatly oriented. No way would I want to travel in that seat. I was very happy to get back into my freestyle which has the same seats as the 500 only they are even higher.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    New Fords only exclude the following items from Warranty
    WHAT IS NOT COVERED?
    Damage Caused By:
    • accidents, collision or objects striking the vehicle (including driving
    through a car wash)
    • theft, vandalism, or riot
    • fire or explosion
    • using contaminated or improper fuel/fluids
    • customer-applied chemicals or accidental spills
    • driving through water deep enough to cause water to be ingested into
    the engine
    • misuse of the vehicle, such a driving over curbs, overloading, racing or
    using the vehicle as a stationary power source

    This is what is said about maintenance:
    MAINTAIN YOUR VEHICLE PROPERLY
    Your glove compartment contains an Owner Guide and a Scheduled
    Maintenance Guide which indicate the scheduled maintenance required
    for your vehicle. Proper maintenance guards against major repair expenses
    resulting from neglect or inadequate maintenance, may help increase the
    value you receive when you sell or trade your vehicle, and is important in
    allowing your vehicle to comply with applicable emissions standards.
    It is your responsibility to make sure that all of the scheduled maintenance
    is performed and that the materials used meet Ford engineering specifications.
    Failure to perform scheduled maintenance as specified in the Service
    Guide will invalidate warranty coverage on parts affected by the lack of
    maintenance. Make sure that receipts for completed maintenance work are
    retained with the vehicle and confirmation of maintenance work is always
    entered in your Scheduled Maintenance Guide.

    Notice that failure to maintain only invalidates coverage for effected parts. Not doing an oil change will not invalidate converage if your transmission blows.

    https://web.msslib.dealerconnection.com/RightSite/getcontent/myfile.pdf?DMW_OBJE- - CTID=09000c5880520d32

    Mark
  • gene_vgene_v Posts: 235
    I love the fact that the Five hundred has a seat with hip height 4 inches higher than most cars. I like the looks of the car, the size of the car, back seat leg room and trunk size.
    Here is the problem. You say all rears and legs are different. I have the build of a middle linebacker.
    Five feet ten, 260 pounds, a 50 inch chest and 46 inch waiste. I need a telescoping steering wheel, adjustable pedals and A SMALLER CONSOLE. I feel stuffed in the Five Hundred. Ford IMHO made a great car with great size everwhere but the drivers seat. Peace! :)
  • b111111b111111 Posts: 2
    I agree with you. The Five Hundred has many positives, but ironically - for all the talk about how roomy the car is - it feels small when I sit in the driver's seat. The car I test drove did have adjustable pedals, which helped but my feet seemed cramped and it seemed like there wasn't enough room for the driver.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    I'm not exactly tiny (5'11", 210 lb, 38 waist), but I find the 500/Freestyle to have PLENTY of room for the driver.
  • 2zmax2zmax Posts: 140
    But some of ya need to get back in shape!
    5' 10" @ 260 lbs with a 46" waist, 5'11" 210 with 38" waist ??? Hit the gym guys.
    You need to be at 180, with 33" waist and 46 " chest.
    maybe then you wont complain about the accomodation on the driver's side of the 500 ;)
    No harm intended, if I hurt your feelings, I'll call an ambulance for ya! ;)
    Just look at it this way: if Dr. Phill told you that on national TV, you'd probably agree and thank him as well.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    If Dr. Phil said one word to me on national TV, I'd punch him out. :P

    Besides, he's a bit FAT to be saying anything about that, IMO. LOL

    And remember . . I was NOT complaining about the room in the Freestyle's driver seat. So I guess I can gain 50 more pounds and 8 more inches before I have to worry about it. :surprise:

    Also, it's more like 205 lbs and a 37" waist . . so I was being a bit generous. ;)
  • 2zmax2zmax Posts: 140
    LOL,
    I'd punch him out as well, he is so annoying and a big phony. :P
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