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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    "I think Ford better re-think their pricing..."

    See this article:

    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=18901
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Man you are totally negative about these cars why do you even bother posting.

    The pricing on these cars is thousands less then the competition.

    the lowest priced 500 with awd is about 5k less than the lowest priced chrysler 300 with awd.

    the only less expensive car in this catagory is the chevy impalla which is an old design that is hardly competitive.

    why don't you just go buy a chrysler 300 if thats what you want.
    Mark
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    "Prices will begin at $22,795 for the front-drive Five Hundred SE. The SE with all-wheel drive begins at $24,495 - more than $5,000 below the most affordable all-wheel drive Chrysler 300."

    But what are the differences in equipment levels?

    ~alpha
  • fdcapt2fdcapt2 Posts: 122
    Being a Ford/Mercury owner for almost 40 years, I'll say what I want about these cars. Yes, I'm negative about the way Ford blew it with these cars. I guess working for Ford makes you get very touchy. I guess it is tough explaining to your customers why your new car has 50 HP less then just about everything in it's class. I find it tough to handle the way these cars were pushed out maybe a year or 2 to early. Maybe it would have made better sense to wait, instead of what they did this year. If you read some of the reviews and articles in Forbes, USA, Detroit News, etc., you'll see that I'm not the only one who thinks Ford screwed up.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    These cars don't seem half baked to me. I've seen more Five Hundreds, Freestyles, and Montegos on the road over the past year than I've seen of preproduction test vehicles of any Ford over the past 20 years. I've seen some that looked like they'd been used for extensive off-road testing. The car is being built on a proven platform, the Volvo derived P2 or D3 as Ford calls it. It has a proven engine. The CVT is the cars one new technology, and I do worry about it, but having driven one I can say that it performs impressively, the car is very quick and incrdibly smooth. Only time will tell of its durability, but it has been extensively tested. I'd also argue that many cars today are overpowered, some ridiculously so. Does one really need a family sedan that do zero to 60 in under 6 seconds?

    What these cars do offer is impressive packaging, the kind of rear seat space usually fond oly in large luxury cars, cavernous luggage capacity, flexible seating, and excellent visiblity, unlike the Chrysler 300/Dodge Magnum. They are eminently practical cars, and they handle very well, with terrific braking and suspension. People who yearn for a HEMI or an exotic luxury sports sedan with all the latest gadgets may not be impressed, but if you want something comfortable to move people and stuff, that's also a pleasure to drive these cars seem hard to beat.

    Ford couldn't afford to wait on these cars, and it really doesn't need to wait for the Duratec 35 to be ready in 18 months the car is quite powerful enough. It is very well appointed even if it's not a true luxury car. It lacks some high end options, notably Navigation, but this is a very expensive option on most cars that have it, it is one of the biggest causes of complaints on cars equipped with, and frankly it's not as useful in most of North America as it is in some other places where street naming and numbering conventions can be a little odd.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Let's take something into consideration. We are grabbing a $30K+ platform used in the S60, thru S80 and XC90, maximize it's porportions/dimensions to make the best interior accomodations possible, and thrown in materials/qualities of cars costing $10K more.... All this with a starting price of $22K. Seems like quite a bargain to me.

    Take other vehicles for example...Altima starts around $17K, but surely... we all want the loaded $29-30K model. Camry, same issue...starts low, ends up a bit over $30K fully loaded, Avalon..a bit more. Accord can hit $28-29K as well. 300M can hit $36K loaded.

    Conclusion: If you think $28K-30K is too much, get the lesser trims starting around $22-24K with less toys, and the same with occur with the competition like Impala, Avalon, etc.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Posts: 128
    I learned something while shopping for binoculars recently. I picked out the model I just new was the very best, it was recommended by everyone. I went to the store and picked it up and did not like it at all. Other's opinions just did not matter in this case. It did not work for me.

    The same will be true with a car. Until I get drive and play with the new 500, I really will not know if I like or dislike it.

    I thought I would really like the XG350. Looks great on paper. When I drove the car, my knees hit the steering wheel. Scratch that off the list.

    The biggest challenge for me will be going from a RWD to FWD.

    There are so many intangibles to a car. Everything looks good in a glossy print. But what will you buy.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    The final pricing now up on Edmunds and elsewhere confirms that the Montego is a bargain. An AWD Montego with all options except the sunroof is $140 less than the Five Hundred, and has three features not available on the Five Hundred - perforated seats, LED tail lights, and HID headlights.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    That is correct, but to counteract that.... I would share with you that in the long run, the average Mercury buyer will bargain less, than a Ford buyer. I forgot the numerical statistics, but overall Mercury costumer's happen to bargain much less than numerous other brands... I think Buick was up there in that list as well.

    So in the long run, the Mercury shopper will probably spend a bit more because they haggle less. Whereas the Ford shopper will probably have a canniption, and if they still can't get their way, they'll go to Mercury.

    Hence, the cycle.

    And I do know of some shoppers that have gone to a Ford dealership, NOT get the vehicle they wanted for haggling too much. Goes to Mercury, spends the same exact thing they were fight for at the Ford dealership, yet because it has a few toys, they allow it to slide.

    Go figure...
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    ANT14 - that is good and interesting information. Rather than haggling, I decide what I want, then send bid letters to a number of dealers with a place for them to write in their full price (with tax, license, and everything else), then sign it and return it to me.
  • fdcapt2fdcapt2 Posts: 122
    Ok, I will agree that these cars seem nice on paper, and when the time comes, I'll form my own opinions. Being a Ford/Mercury driver for many years, I was really expecting much more from them this year. I've been really excited about the fact that Ford was able to draw from all the other companies they now own, and really stick it to the rest of the car manufacturers. They did borrow some technology from their other holdings, but I feel not nearly enough. I know they are using the Volvo chassis which should make many people stand up and take notice, but why do they always do "just enough"? I own 2 cars, one being a 2003 Focus. I really love this car, but then I read about the new Focus in Europe, and that seems to be a much better car. My frustration gets the best of me when in my opinion, U.S. customers always seem to get the the "tamer" versions of Fords production. And I'm not talking about the Mustang or the GT-40.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    Well, they had a price point to meet, the Five Hundred is bigger than a Volvo S80, and yet it maxes out $4K to $5K less than the BASE price of the S80, so yes it might be short of a few goodies, I for one was hoping to see cabin air filtration, alas that's been left out. And yes the Euroland Focus is better appointed than our model, but when you compare prices you'll find that it's also priced several thousand dollars higher, with a smaller 75hp 1.4 l gasoline engine standard!
    The European market is a far different place and the Focus and other cars its size fit in a niche that is more comparable to the one occupied by midsize cars like the Camry, Taurus, Accord, etc. here. Cars are more of a discretionary expense in Europe rather than an absolute necessity for functioning in the economy as they are for most Americans. Ford certainly has its problems, but it seems that they are largely going in the right direction now, they lost alot of their momentum in the 90s while Jac Nasser was busy buying and selling companies and divisions while ignoring the core business, it's going to take several years to see the fruits of new product development.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    FdCapt,

    Other countries have different circumstances and buying habits, than that of the U.S.

    The Focus in Europe can easily top $28K (in exchange rates, approx), and is one of the better sellers overall. Most reliable as well from last years dependability study, and lowest cost to own award, as well...

    Unfortunately in the U.S., we get simpler versions, with simpler trims. American consumer's have a hard time paying too much money for a vehicle deamed "economy car". So many factors need to be placed in the equation and find a neutral balance.

    And now there's the new Focus, built upon the C1 platform. And you hear everyone whining over that...I've mentioned it in another forum before (can't remember which one)...between you and me, the only difference between C170 platform (current one) and C1 (new one), is just a few cross beams, and reinforced structural members... Will you feel it in off the pants driving? Very doubtful. If anything I could throw in some stiffer struts and tires, and you could even mimick it if need be.

    I myself love the Australian Falcon. But that presents another issue as well. Consumer's that will pay THAT amount of money, are expecting to have commodious interiors. Plus, the vehicle would have a hard time passing federal emmissions regulations, and "crush zones" would have to be integrated into the structure. Again, $$$$. And as seen by the Monaro, eh Pontiac GTO, sales are dismal.

    Mondeo ? We had it here, under Contour. Newer Euro version addressed the U.S. shortcomings. But the Focus' interior is quite large, and might impede on Mondeo' sales... So again, other scales of economy.

    If you learn of the 500's, potential, and the engineering behind it, you would have greater appreciation over the vehicle. Granted, most of us would wanted V8, and a few other toys but in reality, it might be things many other's wouldn't bother paying for. And if you offer too many toys, then the complaints will be about higher pricing, or something else that might break, etc.etc.

    Compared to the competition, this vehicle will be a slam dunk. Not 300K+ sales as the Taurus has, but slam dunk in the sense of bringing quality, precision, fine craftmanship and engineering into the mainstream market.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    In my opinion, the home run Ford really needs to hit with the 500, is a good reputation from the gate. If the car performs as advertised, holds up and becomes a "respected and recommended" used car, Ford is enhanced, and residuals will follow across many boards in the U.S. & Canada. Much as the F-150 has done, repeatedly - which keeps it the gold standard of large trucks. The fanciness, options, and fringe complaints will all pale in comparison to a car that delivers what it was built for - solid, dependable and pleasurable Sedan performance. In other words, if it's a Camry & Accord equal, and a little bit better in size, it will quickly make anything GM has out there old news.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    "Yes, they're stylish and comfortable on the inside, but materials quality is below import standards. Yes, they offer refined driving dynamics, but the Duratec V6 is hardly a source of entertainment. If you're looking for a sedan that can swallow up a family of five that never travels light, these cars are definitely worth consideration, but if you're looking for more than a utilitarian implement, the Freestyle and Montego may not be up to speed."

    If this is indicative of the kinds of reviews the Five Hundred and Montego are going to get, I dont feel its going to be enough for Ford. Ford desperately needs some critical acclaim, and judging from the edmunds.com piece, its not happeneing.

    ~alpha
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Since when has Edmunds had a glowing review over a Ford, I was shocked to see they even recommend the Explorer...

    My favorite line which I knew would come up...

    " But buyers who spend upward of $25,000 will expect to connect to their family sedan on an emotional level: A VW Passat, for example, offers both a luxurious interior and an engaging driving experience. While people may purchase one out of necessity, a Passat ultimately becomes a treasured member of the family. "

    Uh huh, the Passat is a treasured member of the family alright. Goes to the hospital (service center) as often as Grandma goes to get dialysis done.

    I find it ironic how Edmunds and a few other rags recommend the Passat on sheer driving experience, yet they never mention how unreliable they really are, and wish they would own one for years to feel the "benefits" of their beloved treasure, heh...

    Hence, this is just one of many reviews that have started popping up. And so far it's been quite positive overall.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    We just returned from visting relatives in central Europe, and they tell us that the VW models rust far more quickly than the more expensive Audi versions of the same cars. I don't see how anyone in their right mind would choose the Passat over the Five Hundred / Montego, especially at a similar price.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    ". I don't see how anyone in their right mind would choose the Passat over the Five Hundred / Montego, especially at a similar price."

    Especially when the size of a Passat's interior is more comparable to that of a Focus, whereas the Five Hundred is nearly as roomy as an Audi A8L.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Speaking of Passat, did you guys read about the mess VW is having with the 1.8t and oil sludge? they are replacing a lot of engines and extending warrenties..

    Oh and if you want to submit a warrenty claim on a VW, you better have receipts from all your oil changes.

    Also someone mentioned they were looking for an air filtration system? There is definately an air-filtration system, its just not "hepa" certified.

    Mark
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I have long since given up looking for a positive review of a Ford product from a Magazine. I'm not sure why, but I'm convinced that if you slapped a blue oval on a Lexus-it would suddenly have inferior materials used.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Really? You must have missed the 5 years of consecutive Ten Bests that Car and Driver has awarded the Focus line, or the high ranking (and due to improved reliability) recommended nod that Consumer Reports gives the same vehicle. For a long run, the Focus topped CRs small car list, above Civic and Corolla (until it was unseated by its cousin, the Mazda 3).

    Seems to me that when Ford produces a strong model, its recognized, and when they dont, thats recognized too. Just more often then not, Fords entries are good, but not that good.

    But if you have accounts of clear bias from the mags, please do tell.
    ~alpha
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    The Ford Racing Innovation Test Drive today (9/2)at the Irwindale Speedway in LA was good, although I wished for some rough road surface and more drive time.

    The Five Hundred and Freestyle both look good in pictures and better in reality. My wife reported that the back seat of the Five Hundred is bigger and better than the harder seats and more cramped conditions in the second row of the Freestyle. The interior of the Five Hundred is very nice, but the Freestyle interior looks somewhat "trucky." The AWD Freestyle felt better than the FWD Five Hundred. The Five Hundred seemed quiet, and more so than the Freestyle, but I will need to drive one on the lousy freeways here (I-5 & I-405) to really evaluate the car.

    The new Mustang is very nice, and again better than in the photos. I really liked the interior. Even the V6 feels good. Most of the people driving the 4.6 Mustangs with manual transmissions got a nice bark out of the rear tires on the 1 to 2 shift, but soon had to slow down for a curve.

    The web site http://www.familycar.com has a nice review with excellent photos of the Five Hundred.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    No, Alpha, those "exceptional" comments on the recent Focus haven't been lost on me, I noted them. But I noted them as amazing and miraculous, given the usual treatment Bill's cars normally get.

    Hey, it's just how it seems to me, statistically, I could be all wet. Who knows? I just find it amazing, for example, how the Expedition gets panned, and the old tech, out of date, antiquated Chevy Tahoe is everybody's "standard" of full sized SUVs. Just how it seems to me......
  • I guess I don't get the five hundred. I am skeptical that it will get a reputation for reliability anytime soon so it can compete with the camry and accord, and it is front wheel drive/6 cyl. so it is not a competitor for the 300c. I just don't understand why ford didn't go RWD with a V8. With today's tech, they can be more fuel efficient than any big SUV, and big RWD american sedans seem to be getting some renewed respect in the US now. The 500 just smacks of a gussied up bloated Taurus to me.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Once you see them, it is clear that the Five Hundred is nothing like a "gussied up bloated Taurus." It is a far better car than the Taurus, and is not at all "bloated."

    I also wish that the new 3-valve 4.6 was in front driving the rear (or all) wheels, but I really don't need a sedan with 6 second or better 0-60 performance and the associated insurance bills.

    I really could not tell from the limited drive time, but others have reported mid-seven zero to sixty times. It seems likely that a loaded Five Hundred / Montego with AWD will reach sixty in eight seconds or so, and that is good enough. I could tell that it certainly is not a nine or ten second zero to sixty vehicle.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'm thinking, by accident, Ford may have swerved the right way with the power train in the 500 - given that Gas is likely going to remain more expensive than ever for quite some time. It may never go back where it was last year again - if that's the case, Hemi's may become boat anchors...
  • As 4th Quarter approaches, does anyone know when Five Hundreds will arrive at dealers?

    Will Ford's reported 4th quarter production cutback impact the Five hundred's availability?
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    I just re-read the Edmunds initial review and realized that a key fact needs to be considered. Most of the Camry, Accord, and Altima cars sold are FOUR cylinder models. The Five Hundred V6 will do very well against them.

    I think the Ford products are the only ones in the group to offer side air bags plus side curtain air bags which protect in rollovers, not just side impacts. The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum do not even offer side air bags, just head curtain air bags, explaining their crash test ratings.
This discussion has been closed.