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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego



  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I agree with you on what the market wants today - I'm thinking the crowd who don't care about nav & sat are more the Cavalier or Malibu crowd, not the new Flagship of Ford crowd. I expect Bill will see that pretty soon, and add it on.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    I have no need or desire for a 340 hp family sedan with a trunk that's barely larger than a Focus's, that leaves the Chrysler 300 out --- Yes, I know it's available with a smaller engine but the 300 and Magnum were designed around the 5.7l HEMI, and it compromises the packaging in too many ways, leading to a smaller trunk and poorer visiblity. Honda Accords are to me, too ugly, too small, and have horrible seats, that's all subjecive of course but it's also what counts if you're driving the car. I don't care much for the Malibu Maxx's sunroof, I despise sunroofs'. The Camry is better than the Acoord but still too small. The Taurus and Sable are dated, they could have been made more competitive, but Ford left that job to the Buick Lacrosse;) The Five Hundred seems to be it, a relatively economical sedan that has enough room for my needs, it'll carry 8' lumber and canvas rolls, and have room for my dad's wheelchair, and relatively easy ingress/egress for him. Those are my requirements, I don't see another sedan on the market that meets them anywhere near as well.
    It's a sedan that's a minivan alternative.
    Satellite radio, and Nav. might be nice for some but they are readily available aftermarket, and I have no need or desire for either at this time. If I were a real estate agent I'd probably want nav. and if I moved somewhere without CBC and decent Jazz stations I'd probably consider Satellite radio.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I've missed too much these past 2 day, was up in Orlando... had an Appt. with Charley...


    Ok hold on... With all due respect...

    "Why is an American car company producing such bland cars for its home market?"

    But you bought an Accord? That and the Camry are the KINGS of blandness. People actually like bland, which is one of the reasons they sell well.


    Ford is looking at the Australian Falcon, there's a couple of them here in the U.S. being analyzed. You will be shocked in the next few years...

    Overall this isn't a car to shock and awe, nor was it ment to.... Just like the Chrysler PTCruiser, and the Beetle... everyone was "ohhh look at that".. YET the majority moved on.. Not to mention those vehicles do not have a high repeat buyer quotient either. We need to see how the 300 does overall.

    Let alone, people should wait for the 500, before judging....
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    ANT14, let's make clear you mean the New Beetle, which you do. If you meant the old one, millions and millions went "Ohhh, look at that" and bought one for years and years. And then, the car could no longer be made to meet modern safety standards.

    I bet the Five Hundred surprises most of the naysayers, who aren't the target market for this car anyway. If they are SOOOO enamored of the Chrysler 300C, then they should just go out and buy the dern thing, enjoy, and go post in the appropriate forum. Reminds me of the constant discussion an old poster here at Edmunds used to bring up over and over about OHV engines in the GM forums. Eventually, everyone figured out that he had only one note he played over and over. He either got bored or, more likely, was asked to leave. And the forums are, in my humble opinion, better off without his constant, never changing harangue.

    The Five Hundred is not designed to make people look at it and go "Oh, my!" This car was not designed to thrill those looking for intense speed and aggresssive styling. Other cars are available for that purpose. One, I submit, is the Ford Mustang.

    And I have NO interest in that car. Still, I don't get on the Edmunds board for Mustang and diss it for not having better fuel economy, a bigger trunk, a usable back seat, easier access and exit, etc.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Must people shop based on looks first, then on price.

    On the 300c I've heard just as many people say they look ugly as say they look great.

    When you look at how INEXPENSIVE the Five Hundred is going to be compared to its direct competition, its hard to not at least give it a serious look.

    Apparently a few years ago Ford did a study which basically asked import buyers if they would consider an American car if it had the same quality and technology of the imports....

    The findings were NO, NOT UNLESS the American car was ALOT CHEAPER!!!

    I think Ford was paying attention...

    The typical "Five Hundred buyer" is going to be someone who is going to be looking for interior room at least equal to the minivan or SUV he is replacing. and here this car delivers big time.

    Also since the 3.5L isn't available immediately leasing seems alike a good idea. :)

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    " let's make clear you mean the New Beetle"

    Yes New Beetle, who ahhh when it came out, but stale like last weeks Coke since.

    On the 300C, it's the "C" that will get the attention of some consumer's... That's the bait and hook model... They will enter, see the cost, see they can't afford it, walk out with a lesser 2.7, or 3.5L version. Majority will settle for the V6 models.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476

    GM CVT Goes Away in '06
    Date Posted 08-05-2004
    General Motors' experiment with a continuously variable transmission (CVT) in some of its small cars will end after the 2005 model year. The transmission, which uses adjustable pulleys to transmit power instead of fixed gears, has been installed in Saturn Ion Coupes, Vue SUVs and a European model since 2002. However, GM has had to recall vehicles so equipped because of complaints of grinding noises and failed gearboxes: GM also extended the warranty on existing CVTs as a result. GM will limit the CVT to the Vue AWD in the 2005 model year, and then will possibly replace it with a new, efficient six-speed automatic it is developing in cooperation with Ford."

    Quote from Edmunds - Headlines. . .

    I certainly hope Ford has a better experience.

    - Ray
    Interesting - verrrry interesting . . .
  • msuradmsurad Posts: 7
    Very well said, Johnclineii, nedc2, and mschmal. I agree with posts 1081, 1083, and 1084 completely. The Five Hundred seems to have the things most people really need and nothing they don't, but evidently people don't have enough common sense to realize that.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    Ford Five Hundred (6-sp.) 29 hwy/21 city
    Ford Five Hundred (CVT) 27 hwy/20 city
    - Ford's Press Release last week.

    Is this now correct and official?
    The CVT is rated 2 mpg less hwy and 1 mpg less city than the 6 speed auto.?

    - Ray
    Finding this rather odd . . .
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    and CVT and AWD: 19/26...

    I wondered about that, too.

    I thought the CVT was supposed to be fuel SAVING....
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    In the way they are tested, these are the number's posted... in REAL WORLD driving as we all do, the number's will be much improved in the CVT version, over the 6 Speed version.

    EPA has admitted it needs to overhaul the manner they test vehicles, since so many vehicles tested do not reflect the MPG posted.
  • fdcapt2fdcapt2 Posts: 122
    As far as people having, or not having common sense, why does Ford offer "just what people need" here in the USA, but when it comes to building better equipt cars around the world, they do it. Ford has 2 nice cars to be offered shortly. Why didn't they step up to the plate and really stomp the competition. Ford has always taken a back seat to foreign car makers. Just look at how long they beat the Taurus/Sable to death, and continue with the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. Instead of really kicking some butt, they come out with an under-powered car that has a very basic option list. I for one am losing my faith in Ford, and I've been driving them forever. I can walk into a Honda or Toyota, or almost all non-US vehicle showrooms and see things that should have been part of the 500/Montego package. I really think Ford hasn't shown any "common sense" by continuing to let the rest of the auto world lead the way.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Go to Amazon, fdcapt2, and buy an old used copy of CAR by Mary Walton. It will show you the 5 year process for the redesign of the Taurus that came out in 96, and how desperately they tried to make it better than the Camry - and it almost was.... Unfortunately, it was too radical in its appearance, and while certainly not a flop, it wasn't the success they were hoping for like the 86 Taurus was. How it went downhill from that point is another story, but if you read that book, you'll understand why it "seems" that Ford can't match the japanese competition, when actually, they could. They may have with the 500, we'll have to wait and see. But this could be exactly the wrong time to suppose that it's time to jump ship.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Im kinda disappointed that with the smallish engine, and lowish power and torque, but using the 6 speed auto, the 500/Montego only post 21/29.

    Toyota's 225hp/240lb ft. 3.3L w/5 speed auto posts 20/29 in the Camry, and Nissan's 3.5L posts 20/30 with the 5 speed auto in the Altima.

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Let's keep in mind, the 500 weighs 500-600lbs more than those other vehicles. Imagine how much better such an engine/tranny combo would do in a vehicle smaller/lighter as those mentioned.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Hey guys I just drove the Five Hundred and the Freestyle and I was very impressed.

    First, acceleration was excellent. In fact, Ford has independendantly certified a 0-60 time of 7.45 secs for the FWD Five Hundred what the v6 camry at 7.8 and the 300 touring with the 3.5 coming in last at 8.0 secs.

    I hate automatic transmissions. Mostly because then never seem responsive. The CVT completely changed my opinion on automatics. Amazingly smooth.

    The drive was setup with an autocross style cone course, with a slalom section and the cars are very well controlled.

    All that and i can verify that 8 golf bags fit in the Five hundreds trunk, or 6 golf bags and a 10 roll of carpet fits with a closed trunk!!!

    The AWD system is also impressive, able to switch 100% of torque to any of the 4 wheels.

    These cars look great in person. Not to flashy but very sophisticated. the 17 and 18 inch wheels really make the vehicle look small than its 60inch height.

    If any one has any questions just ask but I for one am excited about this new product I'll get to sell.

  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    According to the Toyota web site, a Camry LE V6 weighs 3340 lb, and according to the Ford media web site, the base curb weight of the Five Hundred is 3664 lb, for a difference of 324 lb, not 500-600 lbs.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Those impressions and acceleration times are accurate, then hats off to Ford, and a job well done. I would still like to see the Car and Driver numbers, for example, and the Business Week article that Ive quoted previously said that the car felt sluggish...

    "The AWD system is also impressive, able to switch 100% of torque to any of the 4 wheels." How can the vehicle send 100% of torque to one wheel? I cant conceptualize this.

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