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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    That really requires a comparison. I suspect I might be in Germany some time soon, I'll try to rent them both. Last time I was in there, I saw adds for Phaeton, and if my memory serves me right, the (rental) price was very low. I'll post my observations.

    Europe. In London I saw so many Grand Cherokies on the streets - and gas is 7.50 a gallon! With these prices i'd switch to a bycicle. Go figure the tastes abroad.

    My Russian friend just came over for a visit. Is considering to buy a car & ship over there. Size and convenience American cars offer for the price of 20-25G's is unbeatable, they love them. Problem is quality and service, even more than quality. Also, don't forget, Euro is expensive now, Dollar is - well, you all know. BTW, cops over there love Crown Vic and prefer it to Mercedes and others - what a surprise.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Perhaps Ford had too many women on the design team. We stopped by Santa Margarita Ford today for their drawing to give away an '05 Mustang V6. Afterwards, they were busy with potential Mustang buyers, so we were able to be all by ourselves looking at a Five Hundred Limited. I tried moving the seat every which way, but two things were obvious:

     

    1) There is no escaping the unusually narrow footwells, which force me to sit with my legs closer together, like a woman. It is an uncomfortable position, and it also leaves no wiggle room to stay comfortable on drives over an hour long.

     

    2) At 6' 1" there is no position in which I can reach the steering wheel and not be looking out through the upper 1/4 of the windshield. - the seat just does not go down low enough, and the steering wheel does not telescope.

     

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to everyone. It has been enlightening being here and I am glad that some others are comfortable with the Five Hundred/ Montgego.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    And pardon me, but isn't claiming that men and women sit differently a sexist and ridiculous statement?

     

    I'm 5' 10", male and have plenty of room in my Five Hundred in any seat, from driver to left rear and anywhere in between. I have not noted in my nearly 50 years on this orb that women sit any differently in cars than men.

     

    Sheesh.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Dummies are used that mimick 90% percentile of the buying public. I believe the 5-10/170lbs is the most common dummy used. The narrow footwells have to do with the structural reinforcements integrated into the mid-section of the firewall.... In other words, the vehicle acheived 5Star crash ratings with no side airbags, there's a trade-off....this is it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    and not a single one of the dummies complained about the footwells, I might add...
  • I heard differently from some of the people on the Five Hundred program ANT14. Are you sure about that?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    That and checking emergency brake cables on AWD vehicles...

     

    What did you hear?
  • ktnrktnr Posts: 255
    Looking at the current Ford Falcon/Futura/Fairmont on Ford-Australia's web site, I was surprised at the range of high-tech engines available:

     

    Barra 182 - 4.0L, 24-valve, DOHC, in-line six with variable valve timing.

     

    Barra 220 - 5.4L, 24-valve, OHC, V-8 with variable valve timing

     

    Barra 240 - 4.0L, Turbo, 24-valve, DOHC, in-line six.

     

    Boss 260 - 5.4L, 32-valve, DOHC, V-8 with drive-by-wire throttle.

     

    I'm surprised that the two in-line six engines above aren't common in Ford's North American products.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    At one time it was...Long ago... So was the "Falcon's" platform...long ago...Ford AU has worked with it since then and updated it frequently...
  • My wife and I are tall (5'10" and 6'4" ). In a recent test drive of the five hundred, head room was the major problem. In the front passenger seat, even with no moonroof, our heads touched the roof with the seatback in an upright position. This position is more comfortable on long trips for us. An slight up-down seat adjustment would fix this problem.

     

    In the rear seats our heads grazed the roof.

     

    On the plus side, we both enjoyed the high seating

    and legroom in both the front and rear. We have tried every large sedan, crossover vehicle, and minivan available, and the AWD 500/montego came closest to meeting our needs. We did order one recently.
  • Johnclineii,

     

    That's an interesting article on Mays. I've been a design director myself (totally different industry) and I can attest to how difficult it is to build a great team and create a cohesive design language. It takes a long time for it all to come together. As Mays has stated in the past, the current 500 is somewhat of a transitional design; and was probably a project that was dropped into his lap right off the bat. Unfortunately, in those cases there's not enough time to begin a new, comprehensive design direction that will work across the whole line of cars. His comments about the conservative nature of 500 buyers is telling. I'm 34 and I find the 500 design too bland and conservative, but my parents just ordered one and they found the car to be very attractive and classy looking. I think he's right that the car will sell well despite not pleasing the majority of auto critics in the design area. His line about "not getting American enough fast enough" is telling. I think Chrysler beat them to that punch with the 300. That 427 concept would have made a great Ford sedan...

     

    The Fusion appears to be a more well thought out design, still somewhat conservative but with enough style to make it stand out. This seems like a better foundation for a Ford design direction, and it has been stated often that this will be the case. I look forward to seeing what they do with that.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    The Barra 220 and Boss 260 are North American engines, they are available on Ford tucks (the Barra 220) the Boss 260 is basixcally the Lincoln Navigator engine. They are not available stateside in passenger cars largely due to CAFE rules. The I6 engines are unique to Australia, I6s are falling out of favour in most places in spite of their advantages in smoothness and simplicity of design largely due to packaging problems, they're to long to fit transversely in most cars for FWD use and when fit longitudinally they require either a much longer hood than would be ideal, which affects forward visibility and/or compromises space for passengers, or diminishes the frontal crush space, which isn't too good in an accident ( I believe Australian front impact rules are a bit more lenient than ours). Still, they'd probably make an ideal base engine for the F150, or Crown Vic, but demand is probably to low to justify building them here, and I hear there's insufficient capacity in Australia.
  • Hey, maybe those Russian police aren't too far off the mark... Quality wise. I got a bit of a surprise, being a Buick Riviera driver... Here's the JD Power's assessment by Nameplate, placing the Buick right behind the Lexus, and Fords generally much more dependable than the the vaunted Mercedes... I knew the Buicks were good, but hey, pleasant surprise.

     

    This survey from JD Powers is recommended reading:

     

    <http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=860&CatID=1>
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Maybrook: I don't understand. I'm 5' 10", and even with the seat raised all the way up, I still have AT LEAST four more inches between the top of my hair (and I have bushy hair) and the headliner. Would I like the seat to go down further? Yes. Do I have plenty of headroom? Yes, again.

     

    And I have even more headroom in the backseat than in the front.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    That survey is greatly affected by the Buick Century, long considered one of the highest quality (and most boring) cars in the entire industry. The model had not been significantly changed in many, many years. Its buyers were also widely seen as relatively undemanding. The Century is now history (as is the Regal). Whether or not the new models (and Buick hopes, new buyers) will create such a good record is very much open to question.
  • Can anyone tell me the different between the Montego and Ford 500? There has got to be some slight difference, but except for the grill and perhaps the tail lights, I do not see anything.

     

    Are these the only difference?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    NO. The Mercury has HID headlights, LED taillights and, except on the highline model, NO outside temperature guage. Comparably equipped with the Ford, some versions actually cost a bit less.

     

    The HIDs and LEDs are not available on the Ford at any price. The Mercury also has a different colour scheme inside, more two-toney and darker wood.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    I just learned today that Ford is coming out with a new SportTrac car-trunk to compete with the Honda Ridgeline. I want a car and need a truck, so a four door car-trunk is what I need. It is interesting that the Sport Trac will have stability control (with the Ford roll feature), while the Montego and F150 lack it. I will be on the SportTrac forum, as it seems it will have several significant advantages over the Ridgeline. So, Ford will probably keep a customer.

     

    Johnclineii - men and women do sit differently - women sit with their legs closer together, men don't like their gonads (small or large, makes no difference) to be squeezed. How many men do you see sitting with their legs crossed like women? By the way, at 6' 1" and 190 Lbs., I need to loose 20 Lbs, but am not some fat tub trying to squeeze into the car.

     

    ANT14 - the strong frame is good, but they needed to build the car on top of the frame, rather than drop part of the floor below the edge of the frame. I agree with the comment above that the car is perhaps a transitional product, given to the new team too late for them to change things like the footwell. I have owned small and large cars and driven all kinds of others, and can not remember ever sitting in a vehicle with such a narrow footwell.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    FSMMCSI,

     

    Yes, you will see the new Sport Trac concept at the new round of auto shows in the next few weeks. It'll have a 4.6L 3V V8, same being used in the Mustang. And be a bit more car-like than the current version. It's also migrating into the current and soon to be modified Explorer platform (current one rides in the last generation Explorer platform).

     

    Can't build the car above the frame since it's unibody. That method is reserves for most SUV's and trunks, hence Body ON Frame. If the floor wasn't lowered below the side rails then A) Less leg room B) Less leg/feet protection C) Less Hip protection... The higher the side rail is, the greater your chances on a side impact since it bypasses energy forces onto the rest of the platform and pillar members.

     

    Or in other words, get a truck. IN there case your able to place the flooring higher, or aligned with the side rails since it's a truck and true body-on-frame.

     

    CheifJS,

     

    To add to the list of differences, the Montego also receives memory driver's seat, for up to 3 settings.
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    Yesterday my wife finally took a testdrive in a Montego and GM Ultimate. It was interesting to watch her reaction, especially considering that I kept my mouth shut. Before testdrive she liked the looks of Montego. After couple of miles in it (Premier package) she complained over road noise, engine screaming but not pulling th car forward, harsh ride, etc. Nevertheless, even after major complaining getting her in GM was like getting a cat in the water - she just didn't want to do it. After testdrive, the question was - "And how much, did you say, was this car? Do you think, it still will be in the dealership in March, when the lease (for the current car) runs out?" Of course, I told her, that there will be something in one dealership or another. But, it was interesting to see a totally reversed reaction of a person who basically always goes by the form over function.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Oh... GM Ultimate = Grand Marquis Ultimate?

     

    In any case, if you're looking for a large powerful near lux vehicle for 30 grand and have a few months... check out the new Avalon XLS. I have very few doubts that it will Trump the Montego in many if not all respects. The only thing it wont offer is AWD.

     

    ~alpha
  • I am afraid that even Toyota Camry XLE will trump Montego/500 in quality and refinement of interior (where it may rival Lincoln ), smoothness of power plant and actually looks sharper.

     

    But Montego/500 is bigger car for same money and most important has better handling
  • I also feel anxious inside GM. I don't understand how can you even compare GM with Montego. GM feels inside/out way more outdated than Montego.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I own a Five Hundred AWD SEL. Let me say this. I have driven, and drive, many Crown Vics and Grand Marquis, both with and without the "performance and handling package." Driving the Five Hundred is a lot like driving a precise, tight Volvo. Driving a CV/GM is much more like piloting the Queen Mary. HUGE boat, and it seems like it, too. Yep, more engine power, but the rudder is very, very loose...

     

    Sigh.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The CV/GM acceleration times are about 0-60sec in 8.0-8.2 from most testing I've seen.

     

    I'm doing my best to try and implement the new 4.6L 3V into that vehicle.
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    4.6 V3 - yeah, baby! Or, even better quatroporto. If only it could be incorporated in 500/Montego. Chrysler 300 got 5.7, so, what's wrong with 4.6 in the 500?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Thw front assembly would need to be re-engineered to accept the 4.6L... Plus, the Modular V8's are a bit tall in their architecture, so it will obviously take some work to do.

     

    The Duratec35 shares the same mounting points as the Duratec30, therefore it's easier to just drop in since it was build with that in mind.
  • tkfitztkfitz Posts: 95
    While a larger engine would add more power and better low end performance to the 500, both cars I drove were amply powered for everyday driving. Ford even seems to see the fuel economy numbers as a selling point...cars at my local dealership have a "more miles to the tank" sticker prominently displayed. It would seem that this is a vehicle begging for a hybrid powerplant similar to the Escapes. Plenty of room in the back for a battery pack. A roomy 40 mpg car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    May as well make room for the Escape hybrid plant inthere.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    It's being worked on ;)
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