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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Everyone I know who has owned a VW has had several annoying, persistent problems. They always say the same thing - "I loved the car, but there were these nagging problems (usually electrical in nature) that the dealer either couldn't or wouldn't fix."

    I'm amused at the bashing of the Five Hundred/Montego by GM fans. What does GM have that is comparable? The upcoming LaCrosse will be based on the old W-body platform, complete with the ancient 3.8 ohv V-6. GM gave the same sort of makeover to the 2003 Grand Prix to produce the new one, and the revamped model hasn't exactly set the world on fire. I drove a 2004 GTP - not bad, but nothing to get exciting about, at least not until I saw the $30,000 MSRP. Then I laughed...
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    I think that the Five Hundred will be successful by default. Neither GM or DCX have anything to threaten it. The Chrysler 300 flying brick styling won't go over too well with the general public, and a lot of people won't want RWD, imo. Of course, Toyota Avalon will continue to be serious competition. But that's about it, as I see it.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    The LaCrosse needs to cover the ground of both the Century and Regal. The CXS trim has the 3.6L, 240HP DOHC V6. What does the 500 have? 200HP?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    What does the Five Hundred have? AWD as an option!

    Your turn (tee hee)

    john cline ii, who wonders why people ask questions they know the answer to (also...wait til next year! And the CVT may well make the whole issue somewhat moot..we shall see)
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Buick is taking over the market segment that Cadillac recently vacated. Hence, luxury, and has no relevance to a standard brand such as Ford.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Well, that was the plan, anyway, but Cadillac customers have to some extent rebelled against the high prices Lutz wanted..and cuts came.

    So, what does Buick stand for? I have no idea, and I just came from the NAIAS, where Buick had, let's see, nothing.

    The Five Hundred was MOST impressive. I can hardly wait til this fall...
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The Montego will be officially debuting at the Chicago show.

    Were you able to touch the interior of the 500, like the materials and such? They are very upscale in feel and texture, with many soft touch panels.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    ... everyone is indeed welcome here. The only requirement is that messages posted be topical, civil and respectful as required by the Membership Agreement (see link on left side of the page).

    Let's talk about the cars and not each other, okay folks?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The Five Hundred was on a rotating platform and wasn't readily touch accessible. It certainly LOOKED impressive, though. The doors were open and you readily see the interior. The trunk, alas, was not.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I understand what you are saying about Buick's direction, HOWEVER, if GM builds the new LaCrosse (I believe that is NOT going to be the vehicle's actual name), and it offers similar features to up-level Five Hundred (or base Montego) for a similar price, how will the two/three NOT be competitors? I am very impressed from what I have seen, admittedly only on paper, of the new Cobalt compact car, and have high expectations for the LaCrosse as well.

    Overall, I am not overly impressed with the Five Hundred/Montego on paper, or in pictures. Its not that I dislike the design, its just that I'm skeptical it will live up to some of the expectations here. Ford does, however, deserve mass quantities of credit for the new Mustang. The more I see that vehicle, and the more I read about it, the more I develop an uncontrollable drooling issue. The vehicle is even appealing in base form. Kudos, Ford. Without driving it, it seems like a job well done.

    ~alpha
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    the buick will cost more

    but oddly will have a better powertrain available.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    is going to cost more than 31K in base form? Isnt that where the Five Hundred is going to top out? What about the Montego?

    ~alpha
  • daytona3daytona3 Member Posts: 24
    I've been reading these posts about the Five Hundred and thought I would make some comments based on seeing the real thing.

    At the show, the Five Hundred was on a stationary platform. It was painted in a nice dark grey metallic paint job.
      
    *From what I saw and remember, the paint had a nice Toyota and almost Lexus quality look to it. The paint looked full and deep.

    *The car looks longer than the Taurus, but it doesn't look like a boat. It has that European presence about it that American cars have never been able to achieve. It looks solid and yet agile.

    *I can't really say it looked exactly like an Audi or VW, but it had a little touch of those in it. My dad thought he saw more Crown Victoria design features in it than VW. I actually saw more Toyota Avalon in it, but more stretched. Overall, it still had a Ford look to it. It reminded me of a larger, far, far more refined Contour.

    *The nice thing was the attention to detail. I did not see any real cost cutting in the body or wheels. It might have been the paint, but build quality looked great (probably a test mule for show).

    *I thought the interior looked great from what I saw. I can't remember an American car having that nice of an interior. It looked like it came from an Audi. All the pictures on the net show the interior as light tan with light colored fake wood. I was not a huge fan of that combination, but the model I saw had dark grey leather interior and dark colored wood trim. It looked worlds different. It was impressive.

    I was really impressed overall, and had I not spent so much time looking at the Ford GT and the 2005 Mustang, I would have gone back to confirm my feelings. For some reason, there seemed to be a big difference between the Five Hundred and the Freestyle sitting next to it. They come from the same plant, but I could tell the Five Hundred was the flagship model while the Freestyle was more of a regular model. The Five Hundred just ooozed class.

    I don't know if being a rich looking car will hurt or help this FORD model, but I don't see it selling Taurus-like numbers. It isn't that kind of car. The Futura needs to do that. However, the Five Hundred demonstrates to me that out of the 3 Detroit automakers, Ford is the one closely watching the import competition the most. I believe they have watched and studied the most; and it shows in the Five Hundred. The F-150 set a new standard in interiors for trucks, and I think the Five Hundred will do it for American sedans.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    WoW!

    Thank you for that great post.

    Sounds like I should have gone with you instead of to the NAIAS!

    I wonder how many Five Hundreds exist? I know there was one in Salt Lake City at the same time there was one in Detroit, and both of those had black exteriors with beige/tan leather interiors...
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    " if GM builds the new LaCrosse (I believe that is NOT going to be the vehicle's actual name), and it offers similar features to up-level Five Hundred (or base Montego) for a similar price"

    The specifics of the Buick LaCrosse (which the name will have to be changed since in Canada it's a slang for ejaculation) will be released at the Chicago show next week. But from what I see and have heard about it, it's a $30K+ vehicle, whereas the 500 starts much lower.

    "*The car looks longer than the Taurus,"

    It's half an inch shorter length-wise than a Taurus actually.

    "It might have been the paint, but build quality looked great "

    The painting facility in Chicago has been revamped and is one of Ford's best. The ATL plant that builds the Taurus/Sable as well, have received awards for THE best painting quality in the U.S.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Not to nitpick, however the Ford 500 press kit has the 500 overall length spec'd at 200.5", while present generation Taurus is 197.6".

    My guess is Futura will be in the 188-190" length range, right about where Camry and Accord sit.

    My 2000 Taurus was built in Chicago and I have no complaints at all with the paint quality out of that plant before revamping for 500/Freestar production. Both Chicago and Atlanta Taurus Sable plants, I believe have been among Ford's best for quality and productivity.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The Taurus' length has been anywhere from 197-200 depending upon the redesign at the time, so I'm probably talking on 2000 model measurements. Adding something as simple as a rub-strip is enough to displace it a bit as well. If the press kit on the 500 states 200, then we'll go with that. Although a few times 198-199 has popped up oon some other sources.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    just saw the Buick LaCrosse photo in the LaCrosse board. Ford has nothing to worry about as far as exterior styling. The LaCrosse is derivative (looks like a Taurus mated with a LeSabre) and bland. Now the 500 doesn't look so dull after all.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Looks like GM saved some tooling costs and bought out the old tooling out of the Ford Chicago plant that will build 500's!

    Well, maybe they will at least finally have a mid size sedan as good as the current Taurus!
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    I always thought from the very beginning that the 500 would be of great value. Now when compared to the LaCrosse it looks almost heavenly. Ford designs crisp, clean lined vehicles, DC designs "American style" cars with heavy European influences (not a bad thing) and GM...well, they design cars. LOL
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think the LaCrosse is much better looking, at least from the front and profile. Have not seen the rear of the car, and I must say, I think this is the Five Hundred's strongpoint. Why are people saying the LaCrosse is going to be at minimum, $30,000? Isnt the car intended to replace the Century/Regal? I don't think that, even with a new "direction" Buick is completely abondoning the mid- $20,000 range. Addtionally, with the 3.6L DOHC 240hp CTS shared optional, the LaCrosse has something the Five Hundred doesnt offer- a competitive engine.

    ~alpha
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I saw some pictures of the LaCrosse as well... Taurus side stamping certainly, even with the shape of the 3rd side light. And the front looks Hyundai Sonata like lights except with an Taurus grill opening.

    You know, it might not be a bad thing for Buick... Most of the customer's have one foot in the grave and probably can't see well anyways, so I say styling isn't something they will be too concerned about, even if it looks like a cross-eyed fish :)
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Actually this vehicle isn't a make it or break it, in the economic scale some envision. The emphansize of this vehicle is integration of various resources within the Ford group in general. How to maximize usage of exsisting components, and take expertise from various brands to integrate them in a standard brand. (Volvo's P2 platform for example).

    While the Focus (Euro), Mazda3, and Volvo S40 is another synergy, almost similar stradegy. IN that one, the same principal as stated above, BUT in a more diverse fashion by taking a standard brand platform and injecting it with enough sophistication and engineering to be sold even as a premium offering such as the S40.

    The objective that most of the media will concentrate on with the 500 release will be if Ford can produce a sedan, and launch it without any glitches. If Ford still has the recipe of making a good sedan, as they once did with the original Taurus.

    So with combined synergies mentionined in the first 2 paragraphs.. you make investors happy, in turn caushing stock values to rise.

    With media perception, you gain respect and attract attention to the vehicle whereas some consumer's wouldn't have thought of shopping such a vehicle. Also a boost for investors.

    Final one, consumer appeal. Is this a car they believe deliver's solid value for their money. That classy interior will surely convey that, as the soft touch materials and careful attention to detail.

    All these factors help each other quite a bit. But the profit margins of these vehicles aren't quite as big as those of an F-150 or Navigator for example, therefore this isn't going to break the company.

    Granted, all vehicles debuting currently are helping Ford's image, and all are important in one way or another. The Mustang will be released towards the end of the year. And that itself convey's a message. A few Mercury vehicles will debut, and they will convey a message as well.

    The next "incredibly important" product that Ford will release will be the Futura. That importance will be high up there, as that of the new F-150. I say, if the F-150 can pull it off and the media, investors, and consumer have welcomed it well, then I don't see why the Futura can't.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    maybe the montego is important here as its higher level of luxury may be able to 'out-cush' Buick.

    hate to bring it up again, but the 500 only coming out of the chute with the 3.0 is bad here....both of the LaCrosse's engines will have more hp (even if the 3800 is junk) they can take out full page ads and show comparisons on how the buick engines out-hp the duratec.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Sigh, reg. It isn't appropriate to get into long drawn out discussions about other cars here, but the 3800 is NOT junk. Just because it isn't OHC doesn't mean it is junk. That's true for 98 percent of Americans and nearly 100 percent of these two cars' target markets. Face it. Other than you and a few other diehards, no one in this market segment cares about OHV vs. OHC.

    Now, GM WILL be able to post much higher HP and Torque statistics. Still, where is GM's AWD in the Buick? Where is its CVT? Does the vehicle have the huge rear seat and trunk that the Five Hundred/Montego does? Does either vehicle cruise as effortlessly, quietly and cushily as does the Panther platform of the LeSabre? These are far more relevant questions to the target market.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Personally, the AWD option is nice to have- but if you live in the southern US, does it really matter that much? I'm not convinced that CVT is the wave of the future, either. If a 4, 5, or 6 speed auto can match a CVT's transparency in operation, while extracting similar or better MPG, whats the difference to the 98% of the people you speak of?

    In terms of powertrains, as long as the smoothness AND efficien combination of acceleration & fuel economy are present, most consumers won't care.

    ANT, from what I've read, it seems like the LaCrosse will indeed compete with the Five-Hundred on price.

    ~alpha
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    1. Buick is not a luxury brand, never has and never will be.

    2. In the family sedan segment, features and quality are more important than futuristic, trendy styling. Examples: The PT Cruiser and VW Bug drew raves at early Auto Shows, now look at their sales.

    The complaint "It looks like a 5 year old Audi"? Well, those 5 year old Audis look like the 2004s and 15-20 year old Audis, with timeless looks.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I haven't read much on LaCrosse pricing, considering it'll be shown on the 3rd at the Chicago show, hopefully they'll release more specifics on that.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Certain things about the 500 remind me of the feelings I had about the first 86 Taurus I saw. They may have something as good going here, if not as revolutionary.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    The tail is the weakest part of the Five Hundred...the front and the side look pretty good.
  • daytona3daytona3 Member Posts: 24
    What I like about the Five Hundred is it that it shows that Ford is watching the competition in terms of interior material. I don't know what GM or Daimlerchrysler is looking at some times, but the Five Hundred's interior addresses the issue that Detroit can't make a competitive sedan in terms of ride, interior quality, and "craftsmanship". The Five Hundred I saw was from a different Detroit, a different Dearborn. In my view, they have stepped up to the plate.

    And really, I can't say I dislike any of Ford's new interiors - except for maybe the Freestar. I just hope Ford can push the bar even more when it comes to Mercury and Lincoln. Those 2 should be at an even higher level than what the Five Hundred is showing us, and I would say the Five Hundred is at a pretty high level already.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The F-150 was just awarded "best truck interior", by Detroit News. This demonstrates the fact of Ford's promise to triple investment for interior's of all their coming vehicles.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I like the tail more than the front! Go figure!

    The front resembles the Focus to me.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The tail reminds me of an S-Class Mercedes. Sure that'll tick MB off....
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You mean how the Mercedes copied the Ford Granada in 1975, Ant???
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    One good turn deserves another :-) I keep saying it, a sedan that's 1/3rd the price of equally looking luxury vehicles, can't beat that bargain Hehehe
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You can probably tell, I'm more interested in the Montego than the 500, as I like the tarted up versions more than the base models.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    This year we will see the Futura debut, the Mercury version (Montclair) should receive similar attention to seperate it from Futura.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    One other thing about "revolutionary" styling. For years BMW's were known for driving dynamics and engineering, not styling. Now, when they introduce "expressive" cars, they are getting heavy criticism.

    And regarding "5 year old Passat" knocks, I bet the next generation Passat will be evolutionary like the new Golf that is out in Europe now. And "auto critics" will call it the "best ever", even if it looks similar. I also don't see too many complaints of the VW Pheaton for "looking bland".
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    How many more M names can we exhume for Mercury products? I think we're about out! Hopefully Mystique won't come back (mistake is too close).
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    i find the Phaeton a useless pail of garbage that is dull to look at and is twice the price it should be.

    there ya go, at least one!

    2005 Passat is stylish, you can find spy shots on the net. I'm betting the price goes way up too.

    I think the 500 is a nice product but will be sorely missing the 3.5 at launch.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Reg, please don't faint.

    I agree with you. I really wish Ford had a more powerful engine also available at launch, and I suspect many others will have the same desire as well.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    showed my brother in law (die hard ford man) the 500 for the first time. He likes it. His first question was if it was a world car (like my sister's focus which they both love) or a US only. I told him its based ont he volvo.

    They have taken a couple of vacays in europe and like the european ford models. He thinks the world car concept is the way to go. To a small extent the 500 is a world car.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    They got too busy adding power to truck engines.

    If sales don't do well out of the gate, watch the 3.5L magically appear sooner.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    "If sales don't do well out of the gate, watch the 3.5L magically appear sooner. "

    Not really possible considering it'll debut on a totally new vehicle first, so that's it's first emphansize. Plus Ford doesn't have an available line to assemble the engine any sooner.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Tomcat630, true they improved the truck engines, but they are still way behind the competition (Nissan and Dodge). The new Mustang will have good V6 and V8 power, but the heavier F-150 models are underpowered.

    Still, as I have said before, the CVT or six speed should make the 500 faster than what you might otherwise think.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    REGARDLESS of transmission, there are limitations to the acceleration that 200 lb. ft. can provide in a sedan which, in base form, weighs more than 3600 lbs, and in AWD form, in excess of 3800lbs.

    ~alpha
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I really disagree on this paradigm that keep surfacing, about Ford trucks being under powered! I tow cars from Vegas to California and back frequently, and the Baker Grade is one long miserable grade of about 15 miles, and it kills many a car every day. I can drag a car up that grade, and have done, in 124 degrees in 3rd gear with the A/C on at 75 MPH and the needle never moves in cruise control, and the heat needle also never moves. I pass a lot of other rigs pulled over boiling, and just putzing along at 40 MPH all out. Maybe there are more powerful trucks, but I don't NEED any more power than that. And I don't want any more power than I have. The 5.4L motor is exceptional IMO, and plenty powerful for my needs. Sorry for the rant, just couldn't hold it in any longer.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    Do you notice that Nissan, one of the biggest movers in 2003, has made the following a priority: fun to drive.

    The five hundred interrior is great, but it needs 3 things to get me exited,
    1.) manumatic tranny, with the shift it yourself gears, ala ANY nissan and Lincoln LS (so you know ford has it).
    2.) in a car that is supposed to be the new flagship, were is the Navigation system? the Japanese have offered nav systems for years, and now even the low end models in toyota and honda have them. Were is Ford?
    3.) 270 hp top of the line engine would be nice. Since the Maxima has 265 hp, it would be nice for Ford to tell 'em to go to hell.
This discussion has been closed.