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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    people are expecting big perfroming engines in sedans these days.

    lame and very GMlike for Ford to not have the 3.5 ready to go at launch.
  • biggie2biggie2 Posts: 45
    It would be nice... But plenty of vehicles have had to wait a few years to get a engine upgrade. CTS had to wait two year, i think, to get the current 255hp engine in there as an option.
  • biggie2biggie2 Posts: 45
    "lame and very GMlike for Ford to not have the 3.5 ready to go at launch."

    Ok bad example on the CTS, after all its a GM...
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Posts: 396
    Right now there is no CVT for Fords' approx: 245hp Duratec 35 engine (which is also not available yet). The CVT, for the recently reportedly improved Duratec 30 with 200hp & 200lbs of torque, can handle no more than 220lbs of torque. The Duratec 35, obviously exceeds that torque range, sure the six speed automatic wil mate up fine but is only offered for FWD. So when the Duratec 35 debuts it will need a CVT mate.

    There is no doubt in my mind that since Ford began design work on the 3.5L Duratec 35 engine in early 2000 they should be more advanced in four years but still this engine is not due out until the end of 2005 or the start of 2006.

    Ford says this 3.5L engine is a clean sheet design and is the forerunner to a family of engines based on the Duratec 35 architecture with a view towards a 3.8L and even a 4.0L derivative.

    What makes the delay harder to understand is Fords' touted "flexible machining lines", the ability to retool in less than half the time with minimal incremental cost. This process is already in place at some facilities and will be at the Lima, Ohio plant where the production of the Duratec 35 will begin in late 2005, slightly under two years from now. That sounds like a lot but on the other hand the first Five Hundred - Montego - Freestyle probably won't be out before the fall of 2004. Currently the Lima plant produces the 3.L Vulcan OHV V-6 for Ford Taurus & Mercury Sable as well as the 3.9L V-8 that powers the Lincoln LS & the Ford Thunderbird.

    Is this timetable set in stone, you're guess is as good as mine..
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "So when the Duratec 35 debuts it will need a CVT mate."

    They already have plans of buying CVT's from Nissan, for the 3.5L since it's HP and TQ powers will be similar to their 3.5L VQ engine.

    "Is this timetable set in stone, you're guess is as good as mine.. "

    Actually they'll be another vehicle where the 3.5L will officially debut in, when that vehicle is introduced itself (in other words, totally new vehicle, with totally new engine)...THEN the 3.5L will be phased into the 500/Montego/Freestyle, etc. and trickle in numerous other Ford Lincoln Mercury vehicles.

    "lame and very GMlike for Ford to not have the 3.5 ready to go at launch."

    It could be worse though, at least Ford uses sophisticated and refined OHC engines over GM's OHV's....
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Posts: 396
    Anything is possible but as far as purchasing CVTs from Nissan I'm sure you will be able to show us where that is written. For me I highly doubt it especially since ZF & Ford have a joint venture just for making these types of products and not for Ford to outsource them, although Ford & ZF have licensing agreements with UK based Torotrak for Toroidal CVTs which are capable of accomodating higher torque.

    Regardless of which vehicle by Ford the 3.5L appears in first it still will not be anytime soon since production is not set to begin until late 2005.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    "It could be worse though, at least Ford uses sophisticated and refined OHC engines over GM's OHV's.... "

    Yes, but Ford is falling behind these days.

    And ok, are there ANY GM cars that do come out with the prime motor right from the intial model launch?
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    "people are expecting big perfroming engines in sedans these days"

    People EXPECT, but then what do they actually BUY/DRIVE? Honda fans brag about the 240 HP, while they are really driving a 1996 Civic or 99 4 banger Accord.
  • beer47beer47 Posts: 185
    Does anyone know what a base 3Litre "500" will go for? What will be the starting point before they start dressing them up? I like the size of the 500 but I hope it will be priced reasonably. If it is to much I'll look at a 2nd year Kia Amanti. Sleeper car, loaded w/featues at a decent price. I would like nothing better than to p/u a domestic next time but it always comes done to voting with your dollar. You buy what you feel is a good value for your $.
  • setzersetzer Posts: 127
    For everyone who has seen photos of the Five Hundred but not the Montego, go to ford.com and there are photos of it. It looks pretty much like the Five Hundred. I'm thinking about purchasing a 500 or a Montego when they come out.
  • Is listed at 41.3. Us GM fans sqwalked at 41.9 (same as my '00 Malibu) in the new Malibu (realize that doesn't compete with the 500) until we found out about the power pedals. Still, looks to me like too much attention was paid to rear passengers (same in the new Malibu and Malibu Maxx). I could still use another 1/2 inch in the '04 Malibu, with the power pedals.

    I trust power pedals will be available (or standard) in the 500, but they better have a LOT of travel.

    Friends Santa Fe has 41.6 (without power pedals) and I can't fit in the driver's seat.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    power pedals are std. in the 500, yes.
  • I sell fords for a living and am encouraged by the 500, ford has stepped up offering what appears to be a large european sedan. The focus is a european design that works from packaging and driving dynamics stand points-and the 500 seems to be continuing this trend in ford design, adding luxury content. while the proposed engine output seems unremarkable, engines such as the 3 valve 5.4 liter v8 produce 90% of its peak torque below 2000 rpm which shows fords variable valve and intake runner technologies could be employed in the smaller engine. And performance is not limited to acceleration, I suspect the 500 will have good steering feel and relativly high degrees of grip. The american public has experienced excellence in design, and now it is up to our US manufaturers to dig deep, and utilize the genius that resides within their organizations.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "although Ford & ZF have licensing agreements with UK based Torotrak for Toroidal CVTs which are capable of accomodating higher torque."

    I love Torotrak investment idea. And what they have been able to do with their Expedition sample, proves to me there is possibilities of placing IVT's in big SUV's and trucks, and I'm glad Ford has located resources in helping them and continuing their efforts. GM just bowed out from Torotrak ironically.

    "And ok, are there ANY GM cars that do come out with the prime motor right from the intial model launch? "

    Yes, actually the new Malibu debuted with it's 3.5L OHV V-6, as well as the Colorado truck with it's share of Inline 4 and 5 cylinder engines. Then we have the Grand Prix which has stuck to the same engine line-ups for awhile, etc.

    But this isn't a GM thing either. Let's look at the Camry which has gained the 3.3L V6, and the Lexus Es330, that just got the 3.3L without being redesigned yet. Previous Maxima got the 3.5L engine, before it's current redesign. Etc.

    This is a common occurance. Granted, you could come into the market like the Altima, with a hearty I4 and booming V6... Ironically, after the 2nd or 3rd year, if you dont' do much to improve a vehicle (hence, the small styling retouches) Then sales will tank.

    " I could still use another 1/2 inch in the '04 Malibu, with the power pedals."

    Let's not forget the H-point of the 500 is a few inches higher than in regular sedans. Hence, the spread of your legs will be altered... So as an example, if your knees currently hit the dashboard knee bolsters, on the 500 it might be a bit more spread out leg-wise since the angle of your legs will be altered.
  • dave989dave989 Posts: 21
    I really think the Ford 500 has been getting some unfair criticism the Ford 500 was never designed to be a Civic or small car its Fords Car between the Crown Vic and the Taurus the designer of the 500 used to work for VW of America and was head of design so you know you getting a true european designer with the car along with a little bit of american flair. The 500 isnt for tuners its a family car its supposed to be PLAIN people dont buy these kinds of cars cause there fancy they buy them cause there reliable and get them to and from work. On another note Ford was trying to make the interior more appealing by giving it a luxury feel without it being so fancy that youd have to slap a mercury or lincoln sticker on it all for a good price. Now if your looking for a tuner vehicle your going to have to wait a year. The ford futura which is pretty impressive will definately be a great street racer I currently run a honda civic which is great but i plan on switching to a futura when they come into production its going to be pretty easy to tune up and it has a pretty basic layout with high safety and good durablility give Ford a chance take a stop at the show rooms this summer i was definately surprised when I actually saw the fords the Pictures dont give justice to what the car actually looks like.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The Job1 date for the 500 will be July 12 and the Montego will be August 9th, at the Chicago plant.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    It seems that the whole point of Ford having both the Futura and the 500 / Montego is to offer consumers a wider range of choices, including the new choice of a car with comfortable high seating, a big back seat, and a big trunk.

    The Passat is an Accord / Camry / Altima / Impala / Intrepid competitor - they are all mid-sized regular (vs luxury) cars. The Toyota Avalon, Buick Le Sabre, and Pontiac Bonneville are marketed as large cars with luxury features. The Audi A6, Lexus 330, Infiniti G35, Acura TL, and Nissan Maxima are marketed as luxury cars with performance features (except the Lexus 330).
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    For years it's "Why can't Ford make a car like the imports?"

    Now it's "Why does it look so much like the Passat?" If it was styled more radically, there would be critism of "It's too ugly for us".

    No matter what Ford does, it's never good enough for some people. So, why bother catering to those types?
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    I agree. For the market the 500 is after, a radical styling exercise would likely turn off more customers than it would attract. After all it is up against the large family sedan market, a fairly conservative market. Remember the criticism they got with the ovoid 1996 Taurus?

    As long as it looks reasonably decent outside and has a quality interior and gets on the market with minimum of recalls and problems, it will do well. After all, look how ugly the Current Toyota Camry is and it seems to be selling OK.

    I would look for likely a little more sporty styling when the Futura hits the market, as it is a smaller vehicle intended for a slightly younger demographic.

    Has anyone found any preview photos of Futura yet?
  • klauscklausc Posts: 6
    It would be nice if the 500 can compete directly against the Passat and the Montego against Audi. The 200 bhp motor mated with a 6 speed auto should be enough for reasonable acceleration, especially if it uses "regular" gas. The Europeans require "premium" and their mileage isn't very good these days.
    Being 6feet7inches, I NEED all of the leg/head room I can find and I wish the power pedals would be integrated with a memory seat so I stop hurting myself after my daughter drives.
    I can't wait to sit in one of these cars.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Badger, I believe Edmunds has it on the "future vehicles" link in the main entry page. Click Ford, then their should be one of the Futura, if not, I'll go hunt one for you.

    Kalusc, I haven't seen any memory buttons for the seating and or pedals, on the doors nor dash, but they might be on the seat itself, just as Volvo does. I'll see if I can find that out for you.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    I have seen what Edmunds has on the Futura and it is just a "design sketch", so how close this is to what hits the showroom is questionable. I suppose Ford is keeping their preproduction Futura units tightly under wraps until maybe later this year.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Towards the end of the year we shall see more details pertaining to it.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 4,222
    I don't think the G35 weighs more than the 500. 4509 lbs. is the gross weight for the G35 AWD, not the curb weight.

    I really like the European styling of the 500. Here's what it will take to win me over:
    - Amber rear turn signals
    - Class-leading fuel economy
    - Longer maintenance intervals (5000 miles for highway driving? Gimme a break!)
    - Competitive pricing
    - Improved quality
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The G35 AWD from a report I read weighed 3677 lbs.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    From the Ford press release, 500 will be about 3600-3700 lbs also. This is about 300-400 lbs more than current Taurus. With the new transmissions, the 3.0 Duratec should be adequate as a base engine for the 500, and I would guess mileage would be about the same as current Taurus with 3.0 Duratech. Current Taurus 3.0 Duratech is rated at 20 city and 27 highway, though I get more like 22-23 on my daily commute and 28-30 on highway at 70-75mph. With new transmissions, 500 may slightly exceed these ratings. You won't see much better from any manufacturer in a vehicle this large and heavy unless you find a hybrid, which doesn't currently exist in a full size sedan.

    I could care less about amber vs red rear turn signals, a trivial issue, and I consider oil changes cheap maintenance, especially since I do them myself at about $9.00 a change. What the recommended interval is makes no matter to me as I change every 3K miles independent of what the manufacturer recommendations are. Just where did your 5K interval come from?

    I would be very surprised if 500 quality/reliability is not up to par. Bill Ford I am sure will insist that it is, as the last thing they need is more bad press after the Explorer/Firestone fiasco and the rocky introduction of Focus-which by the way has vastly improved as well.

    Pricing I am sure will be more than current Taurus if for no reason than to leave space for Futura when it enters the market, but they cannot get too out of line from the major competitors or it will not sell.
  • klauscklausc Posts: 6
    Are there any rumors that a wagon might be in the offering?
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    The wagon version, if you want to call it that is the Ford Freestyle. Another of those crossover vehicles, not a minivan, not an SUV, not a Sedan type station wagon.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    No traditional wagon, but the Freestlye is fairly close to one. Why not call it 500 Freestyle?

    Anyway, every new Camry/Accord is lauded, and their styling is considered "irrelevant". Any new "other" brand has to be 'super duper looking' to get any praise.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    They can't call it a 500 Freestyle because then it would look like they are tying it to a car based vehicle, rather than identify it with the SUV crowd.

    For illogical reasons, station wagons and also minivans are "out" and SUV's are "in" thus all the automakers are trying to identify their crossovers as more like SUV's than what they really are. It's all marketing/public perception.

    For all I know, Ford may be classifying it as a truck based vehicle as well, to skirt emission and mileage requirements. Subaru has decided to reclassify Forester as a truck by making a few minor changes such as ground clearance. PT Cruiser is a truck. Go figure.
This discussion has been closed.