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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    Alpha I have traveled all over the US pulling a 5th wheel with a Ford Power Stroke diesel and their is no problem finding diesel fuel...........

    Because of the price of fuel we now travel more in our Passat TDI / w automatic transmission. We average 32.5 mpg overall. The more highway driving we do the higher the mileage.

    What I'm saying Ford, in my opinion, has the best dealer support in the nation and by adding a diesel to the 500 would make a good marriage.

    I have pulled into a number of Ford dealers for oil changes and the like and the Ford dealers have been SUPER.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    If your Hunting for a more fuel efficIent option, instead of diesel, thiNk of a hybrid possibiliTy.
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    No thanks, you can keep your hybrids. I've read eough about them to say no, no, no, plus the cost is going up, up, up.

    Oh, areound town they are fine, but the cost will never pay it in fuel savings.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I agree, I'm just sharing the future. Takes many years of ownership to offset the initial cost over a comparable ICE model. The uncertainty of resale, battery replacement, etc.etc. Except for the "feeling green" factor, I don't see much more to it.

    Ford does have a diesel team here in the U.S. which is working on the possibility of future diesel applications. Granted, easier on trucks, they are mainly studying the feasibility of implementing them on passenger cars.
  • rl81rl81 Posts: 53
    From what I can see they have in Europe driving around, Ford can't really pull any Diesel from there and offer it in the US. The fastest Diesel in the Volvo S80 takes about 10s from 0-60...it will be way more on that heavy 500...

    I don't think we can expect a Diesel on the 500 in this life cycle, unless they have an Ace up their sleeves...Ford is going to wait this one out. *Sleep well*
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The 2.7L V6 which was a Peugeot/Ford colaboration project would be the possible diesel offering. Then there's a larger diesel which Volvo is working on, which will be used by Jaguar and LR as well. There are a few other diesel engines being studied for Ford NA, moreso, you might see it first on an F-150 first...
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    I have a friend that lives in Scotland who has a Jaguar diesel. Becasue it is a larger diesel engine, the Jaguar doesn't get the mileage of my 05 Passat TDI. This doesn't make complete since because the Merc 320 has a little more hp and gets about the same mileage as the Passat TDI . The Merc 320 will also do the 0 to 60 faster than the TDI. The 0 to 60 is not an issure for me.

    I think Ford as access to diesel engines but they are afraid to import them to the US until the EPA makes the final say on the sulfur content of our fuels here in the US. This is a BIG political issue here. The Oil Industry owns Congress (both houses) through their CAP organizations.

    I would love to have the choices of diesel egines that Europe has. With the newer diesel engines and particale catchers, diesels, can burn as clean as a gas car....
  • rl81rl81 Posts: 53
    The point I was trying to make is that other carmakers are more advanced than Ford in that area. I believe that the best Diesel engines are not going to come from Ford for some time. Volvo and Jaguar are late-starters in Diesel as well (comparably). VW was the first one, when they introduced their TDI engine, to make decend Diesel passenger cars. MB and their Common-Rail brought fuel efficiency and power up. And finally BMW brought the sport element into that equation

    I think you hit the nail on the head with the Oil Industry. For them, increased fuel efficiency is simply a loss in revenue. It is not my intent to make them evil, but let's see the facts. If I would be threatened with lower revenues by a "new" technology, then I would try to find ways to limit it as much as possible. Hybrid to that effect is too young and unpredictable, yet. But we know what Diesel technology is able to do...
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    Didn't Ford try to merge with or buy out VW?

    If the two only knew that it could be a wonderful merger. Ford with one of the best, if not the best, dealer base in the US and VW with their superb simple enginering.

    Yes the German's, French and Italians do rather well when it comes to diesel engines.
  • tkfitztkfitz Posts: 95
    really ought to be raised from an also- run in the list of consumer demands to the top of the list. Along with safety,reliability, performance etc...I have no idea how this will take effect, but looking around on the highway it is fairly clear we are not quite at that point.
    If a car the size of the 500 can get about 30 mpg it seems to me that something like the Focus should be 40+.
    If fuel efficiency sold vehicles........who knows what options we would get. It now costs $50+ to gas up my F150. I see a lot of them out there, driving everyday.
    For many of us in the country (rural) a more efficient gas ICE drive line is still the best choice. The few diesels available are way too costly to ever recover their initial costs in fuel economy. Same for hybrids at todays prices.
    Auto makers sell cars to make profits, it is us consumers that that dictate the market. Reference this forum, the most anticipated event is the 3.5 engine.
    How about some interest in a flex-fuel 3.0? Greenest option I can see out there.
  • mrlizzzardmrlizzzard Posts: 33
    Weigh your vehicle and compare the weight to other brands and mostly you will see about the same MPG.Even conservative manufacturers like Honda lag in the MPG department.Do you think if OPEC wasn't a major share holder in GM and other car makers they would actually compete for better MPG?I do.
    lizzzard
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    The US auto industry and younger drivers are still stuck on the 0 to 60 and auto racing mentality. If the fuel prices stay as high as they have been for the past year there could be a change, but I doubt it.
  • wep68wep68 Posts: 18
    I live about 30 miles south of SF. Import car capital of america.

    I am interested in the 500, so I keep my eyes open for them. I have seen exactly one (1).

    Meanwhile, I saw 5 Toyota prius' today. In fact I see a prius every day.

    I wonder what Fords market share for cars in the Bay Area -- amazingly low.
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    Any comments on what the warranty's are going for on the 500 or Montego as we all know they are open for bargaining when buying. Any help would be great.... Thanks M/F
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    I saw 500s and Montegos - both privately own and rentals, on the roads and parking lots of Bay area. The problem with 500 is its not easily noticeable. Because of bland design and Mercedes rear end you need extra effort to notice these cars. They just blend into crowd. Sometimes I see Mercedes and think it is 500, and vice versa.

    Honda Odysseys are already all over place. Yeah, but it is Bay area.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    How unusual they would have so many minivans in the bay area, since SanFran has the lowest children population of any major city in the U.S.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    Its not babies, its Bay area engineers. They have extended families - dads, moms, gran’dads, gran’moms - all live together. But most drive Corollas and Civics. Those who want more comfort - drive Camries and Accords. Those with extended families drive Siennas and Oddies. Those who are rich drive BMWs, Acuras and Lexuses. So you got a picture. There is no place for Ford, GM and Chrysler. Non-engineers though drive all kind of vehicles.
  • wep68wep68 Posts: 18
    Ant - I live in the burbs, 30 miles south of SF. I have a mini van. Everyone has a minivan or SVU

    SavetheLand -- I know what 500s look like, and I look for them. In San Carlos I have still only seen one.
  • smithedsmithed Posts: 444
    I don't know, that HEMI is mighty enticing. :shades:
  • garandmangarandman Posts: 524
    Its not babies, its Bay area engineers. They have extended families - dads, moms, gran’dads, gran’moms - all live together. But most drive Corollas and Civics. Those who want more comfort - drive Camries and Accords. Those with extended families drive Siennas and Oddies. Those who are rich drive BMWs, Acuras and Lexuses. So you got a picture. There is no place for Ford, GM and Chrysler. Non-engineers though drive all kind of vehicles

    Umm, want to back that up with some identifiable market share data? That sounds like a big fat stereotype to me. I know a lot of Bay Area engineers and they mostly drive SUV's.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    i saw a car driving through a grassy parking area about 150 ft way. the first thing that caught my eye were the wheels. took a little closer look wondering what kind of car is that? it was a black 500 liminted. it looked really good. they should have put the exhaust straight out the back, with a polished tip. it would have made the back look less narrow. that the weakest view of the car. you can tell it was designed to have a straight exhaust exit, but it got cut because of cost.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Posts: 128
    Why is Ford only offering the CVT in the Freestyle? I want the 6 sp.

    After several visits to the dealer, I really have become to like the Freestyle, 3.0L and all.

    Yet, I can not get past the CVT. While it's performance is fine, I have no confidence that it will make 150K miles as my previous Ford vehicles.

    The dealer did not want to through in a warrantee to cover the transmission to 150K miles.

    Whatever the merits of the CVT may be, it's reliability is not proven. With that in mind, I must consider the Freestyle price with an added cost of $2k for a tranny replacement down the road.

    If in 3 years, the CVT reliability has been shown to be quite low, trade-in values will reflect it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Ford doesn't only offer the CVT in the Freestyle. It's also available in the Five Hundred. I have one, and love it. I usually put 150,000 to 170,000 miles on my cars, so you can see I was not concerned about durability on the CVT.

    Now, if you meant why does Ford offer only the CVT in the Freestyle, that group is over there on Edmunds, too; though I bet ANT will answer that here. The CVT DOES get better fuel economy in the same configuration (but EPA figures say otherwise). It also handles acceleration better, and the Freestyle is a larger, heavier vehicle than the Five Hundred.

    Good fortune on whatever you decide!
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The added complexity and weight of AWD is better suited with the CVT, rather than the 6Speed. Also, while the CVT is a Ford owned collaboration, while the 6speed units need to be bought from Aisin.

    The CVT has undergone extensive testing, and has been used in a few European vehicles as well, where it's initial design debuted and hasn't been a cause of concern. Unfortunately there's always going to be a few that will fail like any component. Some dealers probably didn't reflash it's computers upon their acceptance provided a TSB was issued.

    The Aisin 6 Speed unit can only take so much of a load, therefore the new GM/Ford JV transmission will debut along with the new Duratec35 for it's increased power.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Posts: 128
    "The CVT has undergone extensive testing, and has been used in a few European vehicles as well"

    While this may give a Ford engineer a warm fuzzy feeling. The warrantee only covers 36k miles. That only gives me a cold, wrinkled feeling.

    If Ford really believes that this new transmission is just as reliable as a traditional unit, cover it with a 100K mile warrantee. In my mind the CVT is an unknown risk factor.

    I am wondering what the cost difference would be to overhaul a 6sp vs. CVT?

    If I only kept my cars 3 or 4 years I would not care, but I usually drive my cars into the grave.

    My Cougar, MGM and Expedition transmissions have set the bar at 165k trouble free miles. So guess what I expect out of the CVT?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    ant14 can't guarantee the longevity of any component. does any manufacturer guarantee anything for 150k? it would be great if they would.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Posts: 128
    In this case I would consider the true total cost ownership to be the purchase price + $2k for a new tranny to make the 150k total vehicle mileage.

    Fords have typically had good trannys, this is just new unproven technology in the US market. Keep in mind, if someone really likes a vehicle, they will overlook almost all the negatives.

    But at $2k extra, the car is less appealing.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    So just as Ford can't guarantee a component for 150,000 miles, in your mind you are going to automatically assume it will fail. Whatever....I will happily drive my CVT and let you know when I have 150,000 miles on it. I already have 28,400. My 00 Impala (bought during its first year of production) had virtually ZERO problems the entire time I owned it--five years and 173.000 miles...

    Remember, Ford can't assume you will properly maintain the vehicle and operate it in a reasonable fashion, either. Many owners don't, including modifying their vehicles, then expect FOMOCO to make them whole when their actions or inactions cause the vehicle to fail....
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    The Escape Hybrid when purchased in a Green State comes with a 10 year 150,000 warranty from Ford on unique hybrid components, including the eCVT transmission.

    Mark
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    The Ford Five Hundred just placed fourth out of six cars in a recent Car and Driver comparison test. The cars featured were the Buick Lacrosse, Chrysler 300, Kia Amanti, Nissan Maxima and Toyota Avalon.
This discussion has been closed.