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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Will we see anything significant at the Detroit show for the 2007 model year, or will the Five Hundred and Montego languish without improvement until the 2008 model year?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Define improvement? This year it received DVD, and Navi system.

    Anything significant such as the larger 3.5L Duratec V6, or new re-styling won't come up till the mid-cycle upgrades, which is still about over a year away.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Thanks, ANT14. I was hoping that they might push ahead the mid-cycle revision, but I guess that I should have known that the strong sales would preclude that.

    I haven't been to Detroit (the city) since the mid-1980s. It seems that January of 2007, when the show will feature the 2008 models, will be a better time to go to Detroit and take my wife to the Ford Museum and so-forth. The last time I was there, I was a customer of a software company which held a private party for the user group members in the Ford Museum.

    I'll just go to the Anaheim show this week and the LA show in 2007.

    Is anyone else here going to Anaheim?
  • had better have at least 250 hp, preferably 280 now that the avalon is out.
  • micwebmicweb Posts: 1,617
    Two years ago, having a 3.5 was probably an imperative, but right now I'd say the strongest selling points of the Five Hundred are

    safety - from its Volvo "dna";

    size inside vs. size outside - out of the most space efficient cars out there (and the stadium seating gives a "commanding" view of the road; and

    GAS MILEAGE, say what you will about the "smallness" of the 3.0, gas mileage is among the best for this size car - and it still accelerates 8.5 0-60! That gas mileage is a direct result of the small displacement of the current engine!
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    Has anyone with a CVT 500 or Montego had any problems?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "had better have at least 250 hp, preferably 280 now that the avalon is out."

    The Avalon now has 268HP...280HP was before the new standards of reporting correct HP where phased in this a few months ago..
  • Why should Ford, and American companies, in general, be content with matching the competition?

    Why can't we have 280hp when toyota has 268. Their power has been lowered, thats great, but it does not mean we have to relax, now is the time to STRIKE!

    Ford could score a big hit if they smash the avalon HP while keeping the fuel economy constant. Ford has a great car on its hands. They need to finish the job. Offer the 3.5, and make it top notch. We know it can do 270. We should see this in the Five Hundred.

    I'm telling you ant, if the sales and MKT share gains won't recoup the investment, the media representation for the FIve Hundred will be well worth it.

    Otherwise its just... "Ford has improved, but still lags behind the superior Japanese competition."

    Not something any red while and blue blooded American wants to hear.
    Hell, Ford can do it this time, its all a matter of will.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    We went to the Anaheim Auto Show yesterday. I am still drawn to the Five Hundred and Montego. The front of both is stodgy, but the sides and rear look very nice. I sat in one of them again and found a comfortable seating position where my arms were slightly flexed to reach the steering wheel. However, my right leg was hard against the boxy console, and my left foot was forced towards to far to the center. I like to sit with my legs spaced with 18" to 19" between the centers of my knees. If I moved the seat back to get more leg space, I could not reach the steering wheel. I still do not understand why they are waiting untilthe 2008 model year to add a tlescopings teering column, redesign the console and part of the instrument panel it intersects, add satellite radio, and add teh bigger engine (not for power, but to get rid of the noise when it struggles to move the car).

    Besides the Lexus LS430, they are the only cars with a such a big trunk.
  • lateralglateralg Posts: 929
    For you CVT owners:

    1) On continued steady up-grades, does the engine/transmission sound or feel distressed?

    2) Do you get adequate engine braking on down-grades?
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    micweb wrote: "size inside vs. size outside - out of the most space efficient cars out there (and the stadium seating gives a "commanding" view of the road; and"

    I'm in the market for a Five Hundred, and was looking through a couple of magazines recently, and interestingly the interior dimensions listed for both the Five Hundred and Taurus were somewhat baffling. In practically every interior dimension (front and rear) listed, except for only a couple, the Taurus' were greater than the Five Hundred. Hmm . . . I need to take my tape measure and do some measuring.
  • jtfordjtford Posts: 12
    How is it that the Fusion has variable valve timing and 220hp in the 3.0L V6 while the larger Ford 500 does not and must continue to makes do with 203hp?

    -Jeff
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    The Fusion version may have more horsepower, but at higher rpms. It has a little less torque. I doubt you could tell the difference in the same weight vehicle. Maybe the 500 Duratec needs the broader torque band and the Fusion may benefit from higher rpm driving????
  • jtfordjtford Posts: 12
    Does anyone know if any aftermarket stereo manufacturer makes a head unit (preferably double-DIN, but not a must-have requirement) that allows both satellite radio functionality yet still interfaces with the Ford 500's steering wheel controls?

    -Jeff
  • fdcapt2fdcapt2 Posts: 122
    After many, many months of checking out all kinds of cars, I stopped at a local Ford dealer tonight to see if they had the Fusion, they didn't. They had an '06 500 SEL, Blue w/ pebble interior. I was knocked out by how good this car looked, and I've test driven the 500/Montego many times, so I've seen these cars before. Maybe it was the color, but whatever, it was really nice. I was really impressed with the fit and finish of the interior, much better then the first few times I checked out these cars. If it only had the 3.5, I'd be driving it tomorrow. I never had a blue car before, this might change.....
  • There is news about ford making a lincoln coupe based on the mustang platform, does anyoneknow anything about this??? If true, I hope lincoln won't screw up the name like they did with the "mark LT" when it should have been the "Navigator LT".

    Meybe, PLEASE, could they call it the Mark IX?
  • gene_vgene_v Posts: 235
    The local dealer is loaded with SE's with CVT.
    Priced around 23K. Couldn't find them on 2005's.
  • Is the Montego a quieter ride than the 500?
  • gene_vgene_v Posts: 235
    Put "Montego Insulation" in the above search box.
  • Thanks, Gene!
  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    Ford has announced that the new 3.5 engine will come with the new 6 speed transmission developed with GM. What will happen to the CVT transmission? The Fusion only comes with a 6 speed, the 500 will use the new 6 speed in 2007.

    So what will happen to the CVT. Does this mean that Ford developed the CVT and only used in on SOME 500s and Freestyle for 2 years? Why Ford did not use the CVT on Fusion? It seems that it cost a bunch of money to develop something as complicated as a CVT and only use it for two years. What will happen to all of the people who purchased a 500 or Freestyle with a CVT? Will CVT be discontinued at the end of 2006?

    If CVT was such a great idea, why Ford did not announce that the new 3.5 engine will be mated to a CVT. Are there some real problems with a CVT that it will be discontinued after only 2 years? I know that GM had all sorts of problems with CVT, and now Ford is discontinuing the CVT after only two years. It does not look good for CVT or the people who bought cars with CVT.
  • alman08alman08 Posts: 282
    I think if the Ford's CVTs have problems, a lot of people would come on here and whine about it. But I do agree with you about how disappointing it is for Ford to discontinue CVTs.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    GMs CVT should not be compared to Ford's GM used a rubber belt. Ford uses a metal link chain supplied by LUK the same company that supplies for Audi's CVT.

    CVTs have torque limitations and can't handle the torque from the 3.5L.

    I hope Ford will send the CVT down market to the Focus, etc.

    Mark
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The CVT will be used in lower powered vehicles, possibly the Focus. Issue is the amortization of the developmental costs, to be able to offer it at such a price segment as a Focus.

    And if not, they will continue to be shipped to Europe where they are used on a few Fords there as well...
  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    Well Nissan offers their CVT with 3.5l on the Murano. Nissan 3.5l has 246ft-lb of torque, the same as the upcoming Ford 3.5. If Nissan can build a CVT that can handle the torque, why not Ford?
    If you cannot develop a transmission to handle the torque from your engine then why bother developing this technology in the first place. Is it that Ford has just way too much money? I am sure that there was somebody at Ford who was aware that the new 3.5l will come out with 250ft-lb of torque. So why not develop a transmission from the start that can handle this torque.

    To me it seems that this whole CVT thing was a major MANAGEMENT screw up, and that consumers who purchase cars with this CVT will get to pay huge amounts to fix their cars at the Ford dealer when problems show up later. I am sure that you cannot go to AAMCO to fix this thing.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "If you cannot develop a transmission to handle the torque from your engine then why bother developing this technology in the first place"

    Obviously Nissan's CVT can't handle the toque of their 4.0L V6, or 5.6L V8, therefore they limited the use to only the 3.5L... So should we ask Nissan....

    "If you cannot develop a transmission to handle the torque from your engine then why bother developing this technology in the first place"

    As anything, there are limitations on technology for X X X reasons. In the case of the one used in the 500/FS it's 207TQ. and hauling around 3700-4200 (unloaded) of weight. Several hundred pounds more than the Murano.

    So example, if we place the CVT in the Fusion which weight many hundreds of pounds less than the 500/FS, and possibly in fully loaded SEL Fusion trim, you offset the added load/stress and can certainly couple the CVT with an engine with a bit more torque.

    Another point, the Murano obviously sells at a higher pricepoint than a Fusion. Therefore, placing an expensive CVT unit on a 500/FS makes more economical sense than placing one on a Fusion. And at the level of a Focus, it'll take a few years of amortization to allow it to trinkle into budget models.

    Also, manufacturer's place certain limits pertaining to the added stress/load of a particular vehicle. Just when you read these "Maximum towing at 7300 lbs". It's smart to use some room for error because YOU KNOW there's someone out there that will load it to 7500lbs. even if they are fully warned. SO in these senarios, you under-estimate to allow room for error to make up for these people's mistake.

    When the 3.5L was being developed, soon after the GM 6A joint venture took place. Other option would have been an Aisin supplied 5Spd Auto, (which from Toyota customer complaints, seem to be giving them issues) but instead developing a 6spd would place Ford ahead of the competition.

    Ford is also viewing development of IVT's such as (Torotrak.com) which can be used without the torque limitations of CVT's.

    The CVT requires less parts over a conventional automatic, therefore less things to go wrong. If a CVT does have a major breakdown, chances are it'll be replaced (and it's easy to do so) rather than be "re-conditioned".

    I myself have tested numerous transmissions, which I know have inherent flaws in them, which I can purposely "break" if need be. The CVT protects consumers from those common things we do to transmission which can cause them to fail.
  • "If a CVT does have a major breakdown, chances are it'll be replaced (and it's easy to do so) rather than be "re-conditioned". " - ANT14

    This is what I have read from several sources. Replacement cost is estimated at $6k. This extremely high repair cost is suppose to kill residual value.

    If you own a 7 year old 500/Freestyle that needs a new CVT tranny, the car will be worth next to nothing.

    I would anticipate by then, there will be a 6sp conversion kit available.

    ANT14 - Will the Mercury version of the Freestyle for 2007 get a 6sp?
  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    I just would like to clarify a few things:

    1. Which Ford models sold in USA will use the CVT transmission for 2007 model year? As far as I know non.

    2. CVT transmissions are capable of handling torque in the 250ft-lbs range. This is demonstrated by Nissan using CVT in Murano with 246ft-lb of torque. Ford chose not to use the CVT transmission in Fusion or 2007 model 500. They all use 6-speed automatic transmissions.

    3. As far as I can tell CVT will be discontinued after 2006 model year. Yes I know some will be shipped to Europe, but you know in Europe 90% of cars are sold with manual transmission anyway. So the volume of CVT production in 2007 will be very low. What will stop Ford from canceling CVT all together. NOTHING. Soon the CVT will be just a foot note in history.

    Right now there are not many problems with CVT transmissions, but they have only been out for one year. My 1994 Ford Thunderbird with AOD-E 4 speed transmission did not develop torque converter chatter until the car had 40K miles and was out of warrantee. This was a very common problem with Ford transmissions, almost every car built in 1994 (4.6 engine and AOD-E) had this problem, and it cost me $900 to fix it. Ford did not step up to the plate and pay for the repair.

    Many companies have problems with transmission. My sister has a Honda in which the 5 speed automatic went out at 45K. At least that was fixed for free because of the recall.

    The point is that not all transmission problems show up after one year. Some problems show up only after 3-4 years time when the car is out of warrantee. Why risk spending 6k to replace a CVT down the road? Why not just buy a Five hundred with 6-speed and not worry about future problems. I am sure that resale value of a Five hundred with a 6-speed will be higher then with a CVT.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "1. Which Ford models sold in USA will use the CVT transmission for 2007 model year? As far as I know non."

    The Freestyle AWD and 500 AWD will use it for MY 2007.

    "2. CVT transmissions are capable of handling torque in the 250ft-lbs range. This is demonstrated by Nissan using CVT in Murano with 246ft-lb of torque."

    No, all CVT's are designed for different torque loads, using different components (linked belts, or pulley are some examples). If Nissan is using one that it's limit is at 250TQ., and the engine pumps out 246TQ, then you have 4TQ room of error. All it'll take is any type of induction modification to the engine that will give it more power, to kill it's CVT. Sometimes to err in the side of caution, you do not take it close to it's peak load...(whatever it might be).

    "Ford chose not to use the CVT transmission in Fusion or 2007 model 500. They all use 6-speed automatic transmissions"

    Too expensive to place on a Fusion which starts at $16K.

    "3. As far as I can tell CVT will be discontinued after 2006 model year."

    There's plans for usage in other vehicles...

    " So the volume of CVT production in 2007 will be very low. What will stop Ford from canceling CVT all together. NOTHING."

    The factory is working at full capacity to fullfill orders, they have been for the past year. Fords investment in CVT's, and IVT (even better) will continue provided there's vehicles that can affordably accept them, in markets where they can be embrassed.

    "My 1994 Ford Thunderbird with AOD-E 4 speed transmission did not develop torque converter chatter until the car had 40K miles"

    I had a 96 with the 4.6L, with 82K miles when I turned it in. Can't say I had that issue, but only issue was a lightbulb that burned out.

    "Some problems show up only after 3-4 years time when the car is out of warrantee."

    I agree, by then CVT replacement costs will lower as more of them are available in the marketplace. Currently the factory is at full load, which makes it expensive to replace. Ironically the cost of the CVT is what makes it expensive, NOT the labor. Labor-wise, the CVT is cheaper to replace than the 6speed.

    BTW, the Aisin 6 speed automatic is cousin to the 5 speed Aisin, which are supplied for use on Camry's, Lexus, Volvo's, and numerous other vehicles. And from the examples I have seen, it's not too nice seeing some of the headaches SOME of those owners are experiencing. Let's hope the 6speed Aisin proves better.

    The GM/Ford JV 6A should do quite well. The internal life expectacy reports beat anything out there, and the materials and the simplicity behind it are far advanced from what competitors have to offer, or will offer for that matter.

    Frasier,

    Yes, unless some last minute senario occurs.
  • There have been few issues with the CVT after a small number of miles, such as 5k or so. If the CVT develops a problem, it's been very quick in the life of the car. I haven't heard of a single problem at >10k miles. I know not a lot of people have had a chance to pile the miles on yet, but I doubt the transmission will be a big trouble spot. It was designed to last.

    I love mine, it was one of the big selling points. The 5-speed on the company Explorer drives me crazy shifting all the time. I can't imagine what a 6-spd would be like. The CVT is smooth and is always in the right gear. It would be a shame for Ford to discontinue it.
This discussion has been closed.