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2005 Toyota 4Runner

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  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    and they never cost me any extra money in terms of maintance. I'm speaking of a '84 Trooper, an '86 F-150 (both bought new) and 2 Subarus (both bought new, and 1 with 116K and the other with 66K). Extra wear & tear has not been an issue at all.

    As to car-based SUVs vs. car-based wagons, the big difference is center of gravity, which is higher in the SUVs. So yes, there is a considerable difference in terms of handling.

    You know the market better in the south than I do, but here in Maryland 2WD SUVs are pretty scarce, and certainly are a liability in terms of resale.

    Bob
  • Bottom line is, it's your money, buy what will make YOU happy, not some future buyer 5 or 10 years from now. Personally, I have a 2wd SR5 V6. Fits my needs perfectly. Had a 4wd prior to this for 3 years, used it once. You will be lucky if you get the additional cost back for the 4wd when you get rid of it....just my opinion of course.
  • biglatkabiglatka Posts: 78
    Although I own a V6 4WD 4Runner, because I live in an area that gets a lot of snow, I have agree with those from the South who buy 2WD because they feel they have no need for the off-road capabilities of 4WD. There aren't many areas where I live to go off road and I don't live near a beach where I can drive on the sand (both opportunities I would love to have) so I would buy a 2WD too, if it weren’t for all the snow and dangerous icing conditions we get. The 2WD's are cheaper, lighter, require less maintenance, and get better gas mileage. I would think though, that given TRAC and VSC operating on 4 driven wheels that the 4WD would handle better in all situations. Actually I was looking at RAV4 and a CRV before I bought the 4Runner. But after driving the 4Runner and factoring in its size, comfort, handling, power, towing capability, and safety margin the 4Runner was the choice, hands down. I took a hit in the mileage, but for a mid-size SUV it's not too bad at 17 to 23 MPG.

    If the price is a bit of a problem, for some, I would opt for the 2004 over the 2005 models. The 5-speed in the V6 or the VVT-i in the V8 is very tempting, but my feeling is that because of that, there will not be much of an incentive to mark them down, at least for the first year anyway. Judging from the forums I've been on, there seems to be a lot of pent up demand for the 2005's. I think there are some very good buys out there on the 2004’s for that same reason.
  • sbell4sbell4 Posts: 446
    DRATS!! You saw through my evil plan to trick you. You are too smart for the rest of us.

    I should have known you knew our inventory and demographics better then I did.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830
    Let's cut out the negative tone. Bob explicity said that you know the market in the south better. Just leave it at that.

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  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    I have to support the statement by Sbell4 that "99% of the 4Runners in Alabama are 2WD". About a month ago when I checked on SR5 and Sport models in the Gulf State area, they showed 147 unsold SR5 and Sport models, of which 145 were 2WD and 2 were 4WD. Thus, I would not beat up on Sbell4 because 98.63945% of 4 Runners in his area are 2WD rather than 99% as he claimed. Believe it or not, only a few people will pay extra for 4WD in the greater New Orleans area...that goes for Xterras, 4Runners, whatever model is available in 2WD or 4WD.
    And, to Raider, don't give up on that side air bag/air curtain demand, buddy. I am holding firm and giving all my area dealers hell for not having more 4Runners with that option, especially since so many have a stupid extra mile option protecting paint and seats instead (and it costs more than side air bags). Did any of you happen to notice that when the Insurance Institute side crashed a RAV4 without side airbags, it got a POOR rating and indicated the driver faced near certain death? When Toyota asked them to retest the RAV-4 and sent them a model WITH side airbags, it got the HIGHEST rating; in fact, it got a BEST PICK. So I went to BuyAToyota.com and checked to see how many RAV4s in the entire Gulf State region had the side airbags/air curtain option. Want to guess? Out of over 200, NOT A SINGLE ONE. I think Toyota should be boycotted for putting a death trap like that on the market while not offering consumers the life saving option (which is apparently an option in name only).
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Drama, much?

    If you dont want a "deathtrap", simply dont buy a RAV4 without the curtains. For what its worth, both RAV4s w/ and w/o curtains are readily available in the Northeast. You have the unfortunate condition of being relegated to the horrid business practices of Southeast Toyota (SET) Distriubution.

    ~alpha
  • beanctrbeanctr Posts: 99
    The side curtain air bag option is such an important safety item that they do not equip ANY of their RAV-4's in the State of California with this option. Why does Toyota have such an aversion to equipping their vehicles with this safety feature? It is any wonder why anyone would buy the RAV-4 without the curtain air-bag feature especially after seeing the Insurance Institute's test. I hope Toyota gets it right for 2005, especially for the 4-Runner.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    About a month ago when I checked on SR5 and Sport models in the Gulf State area, they showed 147 unsold SR5 and Sport models, of which 145 were 2WD and 2 were 4WD.

    That could also be interpreted that Toyota is having trouble selling 2WD 4Runners, and that 4WD 4Runners are hard to keep on the lot, hence so few...

    Bob <playing the devil's advocate>
  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    rsholland, it would probably just be easier to admit that you made a mistake on the 4WD issue in the deep south, man.

    alpha01, it is great that your distributor has a conscience up there in the northeast, but I don't think it is "drama" to be ticked at a vehicle manufacturer that knows it can build a much safer vehicle, be it a Camry, RAV4 or
    4Runner and neglects to do so. Your "don't buy a RAV4" comment is shortsighted and is not the way to improve life on the planet.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    "Your "don't buy a RAV4" comment is shortsighted and is not the way to improve life on the planet."

    Its only as shortsighted as the comment you made regarding the RAV4 w/o curtains being a "death trap". Most of its competitors lack the availability of a seat mounted thoracic bag coupled with side curtains.. actually... I cant think of a single competitor that offers this. You can get side curtains in the Equinox and VUE, but no chest protection, you can get a head/chest airbag in the Escape and Forester, but nothing for the rear seat, etc. Are those vehicles all death traps too? And what about the RAV4s STANDARD stability control. One could argue that you're much less likely to be involved in a fatal rollover because of this system, but I suppose youre not interested in that?

    If youd really like a RAV4 with side curtains and airbags, Id recommend shooting an email to all the dealers in your area telling them that you want to buy a RAV4, but will not accept one without this safety feature. Toyota does allow for "preferencing" of vehicles, and if the dealer wants your business, it will work for you.

    You could always try to contact a non-SET dealership and purchase the vehicle out of state.

    ~alpha
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    rsholland, it would probably just be easier to admit that you made a mistake on the 4WD issue in the deep south, man.

    I would if I believed that to be the case.

    Bob
  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    I did do that with all area dealers with regard to the 4Runner. Good idea and I hope your comment will inspire others to do the same. Having been awakened in the middle of the night to be told that my only sibling was killed in an auto accident has made me a much more vocal consumer advocate in this area.

    rsholland, no sense continuing this discussion with you further. I think it obvious who knows more about what consumers in Memphis in New Orleans desire...2 guys who live there versus someone like you who lives a thousand miles away. you must be a lawyer or something else equally irritating (making a ridiculous argument as devil's advocate).
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    1% of 4Runners sold in the south are 4WD. Do you really expect me to believe that?

    sbell4 Jul 30, 2004 10:57am

    I live in Maryland, not exactly a southern state, but not northern either. By far more 4Runners sold here are 4WD.

    Bob
  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    I don't see how VSC would help if someone runs a red light and smashes into the side of one's vehicle. And I prefer a 4Runner to a RAV4. I merely mentioned the recent side crash result of the RAV4 as evidence that a 4Runner equipped with side air bags and air curtains would be much safer than one without and that consumers should be offered more models with that safety feature. Having been awakened in the middle of the night to be told that my only sibling was killed in a car crash has made me a much stronger consumer advocate of vehicle safety.

    rsholland, I think it clear who knows more about what consumers in New Orleans and Memphis demand and your earlier comment to the guy from Memphis that you "don't believe for a moment" his report of what consumers in Memphis desire was pompous and uninformed. end of story.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Lighten up. If you expect me to believe only 1% of 4Runners sold in the south are 4WD, then you're the one who's got a screw loose, not me.

    How 'bout we get back on topic ('05 4Runners, remember?), as this discussion is currently heading for the back ally?

    Bob
  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    You live in Maryland. You don't have the slightest idea about the percentage of 4WD vehicles sold in New Orleans. You have more than just a screw loose. So you go lighten up.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Do you honestly believe that only 1% of the 4Runners sold in New Orleans are 4WD?

    Bob
  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    I have been looking at 4Runners for over 2 years. I know that somewhere in the neighborhood of 98% of 4Runners sold in New Orleans are 2WD, not 4WD. I am not going to answer any more questions about this. I do not have to substantiate what I know. You made an error in questioning someone who knew what he was talking about and weren't man enough to admit he was wrong. As I said, end of story.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    and I still don't believe you&#151;and it has nothing to do with being man enough to admitting an error. I simply don't believe you. 10% - 15% maybe? That I might believe, but 1% or 2% no way. End of story.

    Bob
  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    OK, but I enjoyed sparring with you. And don't forget to order your 4WD 4Runner with side air bags and air curtains. It could save your life and/or that of your family members.
  • I would like to thank those who have provided info regarding the new 2005 4Runner. I live in Southern California and almost found it impossible to locate a 2004 Sport 4x4 V-8. Of course the color choices were slim and there wasn't a sport with side curtains to be found.

    I ultimately settled on a silver one and ordered it over two months ago. I have been considering cancelling in anticipation of the 2005. I would prefer a red or true blue color. Also, if you're going to encourage offroading it seems to me that including the side air bags would make sense.

    As a retired officer I know firsthand the value in airbags. The more the better. As for other preferences, I agree with some kind of IPOD attachment hard wired like the BMW X5. A TRD package with a raise, tires, supercharger would be great. It would save me the trouble of doing it after the fact.

    Lastly, I know the center console is positioned toward the driver but I would have preferred it to be evenly positioned. It would be more aesthetic and still reachable.
  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    William, do you know about how much over dealer cost you paid on the order of your Sport? And, correct me if I am wrong, but Toyota never pays a rebate on special orders like that, correct? And so glad you are putting another SAB/SAC vehicle on the road. Obviously, if everyone were as conscientious and demanded them, they would either be standard or would appear on more models in inventory.
  • It was 500 over cost. At the time there was only 0% for the loan - not bad. However, I have decided to cancel and wait for the 2005's later this year. In fact, I have a call in to cancel my order for the 2004 right now.

    For the amount, I want to get it just the way I want it!
  • Instead of bickering, you could just go to www.toyotacenter.com and run some searches to see what's available in the Southeast. That searches the entire Southeast sales region retail inventory, so nothing is left out (except fleet sales).

    -Andrew L
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I am truly sorry that anyone has to experience something like you did, and I certainly understand your point about getting the safest vehicle possible. Still, the fact remains that the RAV4 and/or 4Runner w/o side curtains are not in the least "death traps". And my point about VSC was not that it would prevent fatality in a side impact, but that it would significantly lower the chances of rollover, and the subsequent and often serious- injury that can accompany that event.

    ~alpha
  • The info here is good. Salsa Red will be available. V-8 not due until November.
  • jcliffrojcliffro Posts: 108
    We will just have to agree to disagree. When a manufacturer makes a product it knows can cause serious injury or death while it has the technology to eliminate that injury or death at relatively little cost and fails to do so, I think it makes the manufacturer's actions reprehensible. Toyota knows full well that NO RAV4s or SR5 and Sport 4Runners in Southern California or the entire Gulf States area are being made available to consumers. It also has the test results of from the Insurance Institute. Whether this continued refusal to provide models with side air bags is the fault of their tiered structure with an intermediary between it and the dealers doesn't matter to me. They should either pressure that intermediary to accept more vehicles with that option or it should just make them standard equipment with an option to delete. That would cure the problem, save lives and probably sell more vehicles. I don't think it will be long before a lawyer figures this out, makes the argument and sues Toyota for injuries sustained by a client in a side impact crash. I know which way I would vote if I were on such a jury.
  • markjennmarkjenn Posts: 1,142
    Wow. You are arguing that a car mfg is not only responsible for the safety of their product, but is also responsible to always provide the product with every safety option readily available. Wow.

    With this argument, mfgs would be forced to make every possible safety option mandatory because one could always argue that any car shipped without a safety option was a car that was unsafe.

    Why don't we all just give the lawyers half our earnings and be done with it without all this trouble?

    Mfgs build a dizzying array of products these days. If you don't like the product Toyota is selling, buy something else.

    - Mark
  • toyboxxtoyboxx Posts: 150
    I have to completely agree with your post.

    Make your choice and then take personal resposibility for it.
This discussion has been closed.