Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

lexusguy

Interesting. Does that mean no AWD or manual trans with the 3.5L engine?

merc1

I can't wait to see this this car. Really. I predict it will be G35 in size, and probably won't look anything like the current model.

M

drfill

Where you get that from man?

Shoot, with all of those (alleged) std. features, the only option I'd want is ML and a roof.

What does wood AND metal trim interior mean?

I can understand one or the other. Hopefully not both.

With these types of options, weight might be on the rise.

And no wood steering wheel!!
Sounds promising.

DrFill

oac

" Does that mean no AWD or manual trans with the 3.5L engine?"

This is the most intriguing question of all !!! Cos that's one that was assumed by many IS fans to happen - a stick with the 300+hp IS350. Would make the most sense, won't it ? But seeing as how Lexus dissed the US market with the GS350, I won't be holding my breadth to see the stick in the IS350 either. I hope I am wrong tho'.

oac

"Where you get that from man? "

Got it from CL, a guy named "Rockville", from MD posted it last night. Sorry cannot link it here, but you get the gist of the post anyways. Key point to note is that these features (std/options) are subject to change.

"What does wood AND metal trim interior mean?"

May mean wood-trim tranny shifter and steering wheel, with metal-backdrop to 3-pod gauges and dashboard. Just my guess, tho'

Like many of you, I cannot wait for next week... How did Lexus manage to hide this car for so long ?

oac

You may be right there, Merc1. I sure hope it is a true 3 competitor .... finally !

wale_bate1

Unfortunately, I think Merc has called the ball. I'm concerned we'll have a G35 type of entry. But then, that's been my concern since about day two.

Don't want a G35 competitor. Not at all.

drfill

First Ting

Since eye sore the IS Convertible Concept myself, live, in NYC lasy year, and it was not much larger than the current IS, AND preliminary specs about it's slight length and width increase have been out for a while, I SWEAR the IS will not grow to any TL/G35 size!

And #2, putting a wood steering wheel on the IS is like putting a white top on the FJ Cruiser!

Way beyond stupid. This is NOT an ES, people!! A want ROAD FEEL, not laquer feel!

Lexus wouldn't make the same mistake twice (No stick). I'm not worried about that.

I don't expect a stick with AWD. That would be too sweet a drivers car for a Lexus.

DrFill

lenscap

My dealer's owner confirmed long ago that the AWD would only be offered with the 2.5.

Also, look at the RX for an example of wood and metal trim - it has wood on the dashboard and doors plus a metal-like trim around the door's window/lock controls. A non-Lexus example is the new RL - it has wood sweeping across the dash plus a metal-like center console where the radio/ac/nav buttons are.

wale_bate1

Wood in IS is like television set on wedding night - not necessary. If they want to offer some dealer installed BS wood trim kit they should live and be well.

I'm gonna hold ya to that size prediction Doc! ;-)

dewey

Read between the lines of this Businessweek article and you will decipher that the IS will have a diesel version in Europe and a hybrid version in N. America. Although I think we will have to wait a bit longer for these two versions(depending on what continent you are on). Sounds like Lexus is ready to compete with BMW. All what is missing is a new IS station wagon!

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_09/b3922126_mz017- .htm

lexusguy

Yeah I think it would be smarter to go the G35 route and offer one or the other, but not at once.

I read about the diesel awhile ago. Definitely a requirement if they want to sell more cars there. That was a very interesting article though. The vast majority of Lexus SUV sales come from RX330 though, so I dont think they have to worry about a slow down in monster truck sales, and the LS does better than the German competition in the US. What Lexus needs to do is to figure out how to sell IS and GS in any kind of numbers.

wale_bate1

Dewey: Wagon. Say it with me brother! Wagon, wagon, wagon...

Yeah the diesel news was out a bit back. I doubt we'll see it here, but cool anyway.

Now, everyone, the chant for the day, other than "wagon", is "bigger is just bigger".

C'mon, keep it tight and light (and make it in white?)...

;-)

lexusguy

Does the US market even get a 3 series wagon anymore? Or did X3 replace it? Come to think of it, I cant remember the last time I saw a C-class wagon or A4 Avant either. I dont really see the point. Supposedly there's a G35 wagon and convertible in the works.

kyfdx

We still get the Avant, and 3-series wagon.. There will also be a new 5-series wagon...

Strange people like wale-bale insist on it.. ;-)

wale_bate1

There's a C wagon too.

Unfortunately, aside from Audi, and hitherto Lexus, the powerplants offered on the wagons are usually the smaller disp. ones. When you factor in the extra 100+lbs or so for the back pack, they often seem a tad sluggish. IMO, the 325it suffered that way, and once Benz dropped the 320 option for the C, the problem was the same there.

As for the IS, the Sportcross version IMO, is not only a major plus in utility over the sedan, but better looking and it also has better weight distribution, and therefore faster slalom times (minor indicator, but straws show which way the wind is blowing).

I suppose the sales distro for the wagons is regional in nature; here by the Bay I see quite a fair number of Avants, 325iTs, C wagons, etc. There are also three other Sportcross owners in town here (one silver, one blue and one yellow).

I very nearly came home with a 540iT. That was one of the hardest toys to pass up ever. Just too big a car to live with everyday for me. But ooo baby, the powerband? Yow!

wale_bate1

What's an "optitron" instrument cluster?

Is that that awful blueish reddish lighted thang from the ES? Could we just have some nice looking normal dials? Please?

Oy.

nippononly

I think optitron is just what all the other Lexi have: backlit gauges that you can't see when they're not lit. The Matrix has optitron gauges too, for instance.

wale_bate1

Thanks Nippon.

I was afraid of that.
:-(

lexusguy

Whats wrong with the standard Lexus gauge cluster?

drfill

Word is the guages are enhanced so they can be seen in all lighting conditions, stated in a recent GS preview.

Lexus is building a new V8 that will compliment the 3.5 in future Lexus models, a V8 in the 350HP range (4.6L). This is probably why the launch is more cake than icing.

The new eight won't be out until Fall of '06, just before the LS takes over the world with it's redeign.

Remember Lexus is staggering introducions on it's new models to keep them fresh.

DrFill

arthur_15

So a bigger IS with a smaller engine and AWD?
Sounds very slow. Like 8-9sec 0-60 slow.

lexusguy

Not necessarily. You think that the iron-block inline does anything to help the IS300 in 0-60? The new 2.5 base engine should weigh significantly less than the old inline, and coupled with a new transmission and similar power, should have no trouble offsetting any additional size.

oac

Are you kidding ? An IS250 at 8-9s ? Even my lumbering 2-ton Sequoia would give that time a run for its money....

All ISs come with 6-speed trannies. Possibly, a 6-speed stick in the IS250. With weight projected to be in the 3300Ib range, you can bet your knickers (?) that car will do the low-mid 6s 0-60. And how 'bout the IS350 ? A smallish car, with 315bhp/280Ibft (tq), and a 6-speed tranny ? Even with a 6-speed slush box, it should be seeing the mid-5s 0-60. The new GS430 at 300bhp/315Ibft (tq) and 6-speed auto is rated at 5.6s 0-60, and it is a bigger car than the IS. Lexus means business with the IS. It is the future of the Lexus product line, IMO. So they won't mess with this car, that's why it has been the most guarded car release in Lexus' history...

Only 7 more days to go....

dewey

"Dewey: Wagon. Say it with me brother! Wagon, wagon, wagon..."

wale_bate1 pardon my outdated terminology. But do not the names Sport Wagon, Touring or Sportcross serve one and only one purpose: To disquise the fact that they are station wagons? ;}

Watch out for the new minivans from BMW, Mercedes Benz and Lexus. These vehicles will be given fancy sporty names(multi-functional-performance vehicles) in order to disquise the ego-bruising fact that they are just minivans.

dewey

"I cant remember the last time I saw a C-class wagon or A4 Avant either."

We do live in very different parts of this planet. There are many European wagons in my neighborhood. In fact wagon have improved in popularity in N. America---with the exception of lexusguy's vicinity : )

A g35 wagon--interesting, very interesting. Oh and by the there will be a new 3 series Touring( I just have 607 days to go until I can test-drive it)

ent

Does anyone care to guess when the convertable IS
will be out. Any guess on the price?

lexusguy

Apparently so. I've seen a 5 series wagon in my neighborhood once that I can remember. One of my neighbors has an E wagon, but I've never seen a 3, A4, or C wagon around here.

merc1

Yes they are making everyone wait until the last minute....!

Wale_bate1,

Yes I'm afraid that the size of the current IS300 will be one off special after the new model is shown. Lexus wants those G35/TL sales for their "sports" sedan also.

M

jstager

Geez! The wait is incredible! I've seen the new BMW 3 and Audi A4 but nothing impressed me like the LF-S. I can't wait to hear more information on this car. 7 days you say... I don't know if I'll make it. Did anyone do price estimates anywhere in this very long thread?

drfill

Game Over, fellas. Game over!

DrFill

wale_bate1

I personally find all the "electro-luminescent" gauges gimmicky for one (which I don't really object to) and providing zero advantage over a simple back-lighted gauge face (which I do object to). I'm much more comfortable with plain back lighting. The TL's gauges are annoying, as are the ES's. Of the best to drive with, IMO, Chrysler's out-going white face/black marker gauges are quite good as are their white on black ones. I prefer the soft orange back light of the white on black to the greenish hue of the black on white.

The blue and red thing is just non-descript, and that's why I don't care for the gimmick, especially in the day time. However, I have heard from a number of older folks that they find the brightness of them easier to read at night. I don't. I find it just distracting.

After having lived with HID lamps for three years now, I can also point to those as needless for standard equipment. In switching between my car with HIDs and cars still running halogen, I find I see every bit as well with the halogens, and their initial and replacement costs are certainly much more reasonable. When my SCross was in it's little fender-bender, the driver's side HID had to be replaced, at a retail of $1200. That's absurd for a headlamp. Yeah, insurance covered it, but the cost is certainly reflected in premiums, and as more vehicles hit the roads with them, everybody's costs rise based on average repair cost projections.

I like the fact that BMW still has them as options. It's one box I won't check on my next car, should I have that option.

wale_bate1

Yup. They can call 'em what they like, a wagon is a wagon is a wagon; and far superior to a sedan, sez I!
;-)

I think they ought to call 'em the same thing they do in Europe: estates. Probably sell more...

wale_bate1

:-(

kyfdx

If you get a BMW, you really should get the Xenons... they are incredible..

I agree.. on a lot of other makes, they aren't worth it..

wale_bate1

:-(

I know a few folks who ended up in Gs and TLs (my late father one of them), and they were never looking at 3-series or direct competitors.

I still don't buy either of those as a 3-series sales stealer to any degree.

is3ooguy

I would never give up having HID now that I have had them for 2 years. The other car in the family doesn't have them and when ever I have to drive it at night, everything looks so dark.
Like so many other safety features, I don't care about the cost as long as they make myself and my family safer. Seeing better at night, I would say, falls under that title.
Just my 2 cents....

wale_bate1

I'm glad you get some benefit, isguy. I don't see it at all; pun intended. ;-)

kdfyx: I've driven the 540 with HIDs and it's better. That's a projector lamp set up isn't it? As opposed to the reflector in my IS? The pattern is better, but still no sale here.

I have never noticed any downrange advantage with HIDs, regardless of make, though I will not lay claim to a whole lot of night driving with that 540. I notice better clarity and detail toward the apron, but that's it. For avoidance, I don't really need the apron clarity. Human acuity in the dark is mostly motion-based any way, so the only advantage there is that you'll notice the panic in the buck's eyes just before he takes out the passenger side headlamp and fender (they ambush from the side you know). You'll feel sympatico. Maybe that's advantageous; I don't know. ;-)

I'd have to go back to '92 or so and a lowly little Saturn SL2 I had to pinpoint the most effective lamping I've experienced. That and the '96 Passat GLX VR6 wagon we had. Actually, I'll give the nod to the Passat; it was a cleaner pattern from a larger, more regular lens surface.

lexusguy

One thing I've noticed is that Lexus gauges seem to keep getting brighter with each redesign. My '96 LS had amber gauges with red needles that were classy and always legible, and not too bright at night. They changed the amber to bright white, and they changed the red needles to bright white ones. Sure even blind people can see them now, but I have to admit I miss the amber\reds a little.

wco81

What is the expected HP and torque of the 2.5?

If they do mate it with a hybrid power train, that could give it some pep.

Any ideas on the mileage of these models?

oac

"What is the expected HP and torque of the 2.5?"

215hp/220Ib ft of torque.

"If they do mate it with a hybrid power train, that could give it some pep"

An h version should raise the hp rating to about 275-ish, my guess, but the torque should be much higher than that.

"Any ideas on the mileage of these models?"

The 2.5L motor is gonna be a new one, so difficult to predict. But if the 3L in the GS is rated at 22/31, expect the IS250 to rate around 25/31, my guess.

wale_bate1

Understood. Completely.

I don't know about you, but I find bright gauges hugely annoying. They distract from what's really important on the other side of the windshield, IMO.

My best half sets her lighting control at full bright in the Town and Country, and if I have to drive it at night, the first thing I do is turn them down about a third of the way. Ticks her off proper when she gets back behind the wheel! Oh well...

In my IS, I have the panel lighting set at about 2/3. Great clarity and easy reference, but I don't notice it when my eyes are on the road. Perfect.

lexusguy

If the IS is granted a hybrid powertrain, I highly doubt it will the be the 2.5L engine that gets it. Lexus wants their hybrid cars to be performance first with the fuel economy as an added plus, not Priuses. It would most likely be the 3.5L engine designed as an M\AMG\S fighter.

kyfdx

If they want hybrids to be performance machines, they'll have to figure out some way to get the weight out of them...

A 3800 LB. IS won't be much fun to throw into the corners...

nippononly

wouldn't that realistically be a lot closer to 3500 pounds? In the RX400h the hybrid junk adds about 200 pounds, I believe. And surely the IS350 isn't going to be much over 3300 pounds. Or at least, I would hope.

kyfdx

Well.. the new one is supposed to be bigger than the old one... The trend seems to be heavier and heavier... If they throw extra weight for the hybrid on top of that...

I'm just not a big hybrid fan.. If they can get 330 Hp out of 3.2 litres, naturally aspirated, then I just don't see the point... Because even 200 lbs. won't help the handling..

If your goal is a fuel miser like the Prius or Civic hybrid, I can see it.. but, I like performance sedans where smaller and lighter is better..

Light and 250 hp is better than heavy and 300 hp.. for fuel mileage, handling, and acceleration....

regards,
kyfdx

sunilb

anyone have any sense on pricing for the 250 or 350?

[that's right-- I can't wait 3-4 days to find out]

k_mitsui

Hello all
It seems the website "Autospies" have got the real photo that has being flowing around the Japanese forum a few weeks ago and I think this one comes from the Japanese automotive forum "Yomiuri” if I am correct. Since members from the Yomiruri forum are highly creditable people, so I would say these photos from autopsies should be what the new Lexus IS sedan looks like. But I am not sure as to why Autospies don't have the interior photos for the IS sedan because I think I saw the interior photos for the IS sedan on other Japanese automotive forums as well and you should tell people at autopsies to try to get these photos as well. Unfortunately I was not allowed to do “cut and paste” these photos and post it on this forum (they would said a message on windows that I was prohibited to do it) because they would very likely kick me out from the forum immediately due to copyright reasons and I don’t want to lose my membership that cost me $20000 yen per year or getting into any serious trouble since we Japanese take such matter like copyright issues “very seriously” even I give it to someone in a foreign country. So I do believe these photos from autopsies must obtain some sort of special permission from the publisher or some other sources in Japan (with copyright fee of course) since I think this is the only method you can get these photos legally.
Now in terms of pricing, although I cannot get any specific information as to the exact pricing for the sedan, but one of the Toyota official (who was my friend) told me the sedan would sell at around 2.7-2.8 million yen upwards to close to 4.2-4.5 million yen, which is around from $27000-28000 upwards to $42000-45000 American dollars. But please be caution that America might have a much different pricing than in Japan because of taxes and other sort of duty fees might impose for the sedan.
Note: I also heard rumors that the LF-A sedan would be the upcoming SC-sedan that would release around the period when the new LS sedan launches, but there’s still not enough evidence to prove this rumor to be true.
Ken

kyfdx

I appreciate your opinions..

But, around here.. we call it autolies.com

I'll just wait a few days... lol

oac

Would a comparo between these two cars be fair, seeing that the IS350 may have 300+hp while the 330 has a 3L 255hp ? Of course, its not all about hp, but something tells me the next IS will dominate and best the new Bimmer 3.