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Natural Gas Prices

vix4vix4 Posts: 52
The price of natural gas here in California is now only 20 cents less than unleaded.
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Comments

  • leon93leon93 Posts: 2
    Does anyone know if I can use scuba compressor to charge CNG car?
  • cngmikecngmike Posts: 20
    I know of one person doing this. You have to make the electrical intrinsically safe. you might also have to change the rings. are you thinking of an I.R. or a Bauer?
  • leon93leon93 Posts: 2
    Somethink like this:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/AireTex-3-5-CFM-SCUBA-Paintball-Compressor_W0QQitemZ7549835109QQcatego- ryZ106436QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
    but used.

    Motor is brashless anyway, so there will be no sparks at all. I think the case of the compressor can be connected to inlet if there is any ring leak.
  • cngmikecngmike Posts: 20
    That appears to be a Bauer type compressor. The motor would have to be replaced to an explosion proof and a off skid control panel. It would also need a inlet filter and solinoide valve. At that price I would look for a Fuelmaker C3, FM2 or FM4.
  • cngmikecngmike Posts: 20
    As of tTuesday
    So Cal Gas 2.50 (Santa Monica)
    2.39 (Glendale)
    Long Beach Gas 2.23
    Clean Enrgy 2.49
    Reg at Union 76 2.89
  • cngmmcngmm Posts: 1
    I call fuelmaker yesterday - the cheapest compressor is ~$7.000
  • cngusercnguser Posts: 59
    Re: CNG rates listed for Tuesday
    Looks like the big oil companies have shown the CNG dealers in Calif how to play rip off the customer.
    Doesn't the Calif State PUC set natural gas rates - how could these be so artificially high? If that is attributed to recent natural gas cost increases nationwide, folks might as well switch over and heat their homes with gasoline! Not that more government is the answer, but looks like CNG pricing is out of control there. Hope it can get looked into.
  • cngmikecngmike Posts: 20
    There are several places you can look for A used Fuelmaker At www.ngvc.org under Market place There is some one selling 16 FM2-36 and at http://www.ngv.org/ngv/ngvorg01.nsf/Clearinghouse?readform look under compressor and fueling appliance I believe mel is selling C3s a 2200.00 and FM2s for 2400.00 Take your time and look around find a used Bower the one thing to keep in mind abuot natural gas comperssors are that they have to meet NFPA52 and your local fire code. also you are limited most of the time to 7" of water colum inlet pressure at your home.
  • cngmikecngmike Posts: 20
    The Ca. P.U.C. dose control prices of utilitys. They just granted So. Cal. Gas a 39 cent increase to thier compression rate. I was told Clean Energy had gone to the P.U.C. and lobbied for this because it was an unfair advantage in the market place. (I do not know this for a fact.) The chairman of the board of Clean Energy is T. Boone Pickens is that big oil enough for you. Both So. Cal. Gas And Long Beach Gas are tied to the commity rate by a fixed rate. So thier prices are a set value over what they perchase gas for on the open market. Clean Energy, PIinnacle, ect. are market driven and set thier oun prices.
  • A few years ago I talked to Clean Energy's VP for marketing about pricing. He said it was tied into 87 octane gasoline pricing. He also told me that it's a bargain because use it should be set to premium.
  • londnrlondnr Posts: 55
    That's interesting - I live close to ENRG's headquarters in Seal Beach and every once in a while I run into the ENRG staff at lunch.

    During a conversation with an individual ENRG employee (who shall remain nameless) I said that I never used their pumps unless I had to because the price was so high compared to Long Beach and So Cal Gas.

    I mentioned that the ENRG prices seemed to track gas prices - that didn't go down well at all! I was told in no uncertain terms by my conversation partner, that he set the prices, and they were not linked to gas prices. He went on to "cry" about how unfair it was of the utilities to sell their CNG at "below cost" - he claimed that the CNG from Long Beach and So Cal Gas was subsidized and poor old ENRG had a hard time making a buck in this unfair market.

    So from that day to this, knowing just how unfairly ENRG has been treated I now use only their pumps - Just kidding.
  • timontimon Posts: 4
    Watch out, I really think that ENGR wants to take over LBE's CNG station. :mad: If they do then there will be no stopping what they will charge us.

    BTW, I know that LBE does not sell below cost and in fact makes money on the station. ENGR is just blowing smoke. Why would the Fountain Valley station be charging 2.049 last month and 2.149 this month when the cost of gas went down by almost $0.030 per gge? Their NOT telling the truth.

    Later this year the fed hwy tax will go up but there will be a $0.50 credit back from the feds. To the end user that should drop the price by at least $0.40. Let's see if ENGR drops their prices. I bet NOT.

    The only thing stopping me from installing Phill in at home is that their is NO ROI. But if per chance ENGR did take over the LBE station the ROI is there.

    I'd love to put in a station somewhere on the 405 and price is below ENGR. Two problems, cost to build the station and you know that ENGR would price their closet station below to try and kill a competting station.

    FYI, it would cost at least $100,000 to $175,000 to build a station using referbed equipment.
  • Can you give me your math re: ROI on Phill? It cost $3500, minus the $2000 AQMD rebate, minus the federal tax deduction for the purchase price including installation. It's costing me less than, or about, a dollar per gge to fill my car. I'm saving roughly a dollar per gge, and will have recovered the money spent on the phill, even if i have to throw it away instead of having it rebuilt. Aside from the conveinence factor, there is a financial ROI too, IMHO.

    PS - I don't know if and when they changed the rules, but I got a transponder for free access to the 91 express lanes for my civic gx about 2 years ago, and use it frequently. You just drive through the regular toll lane, not the 3+ lane. I just went in, brought my registration and clean air decal slip, filled out the special access form, and got the transponder....
  • londnrlondnr Posts: 55
    Just so that you know - you are absolutely right, in fact not only do ENRG want to take over LBE but they have actually succeeded. I think the change takes place next month or soon thereafter. A sad day.
  • lakewood90712lakewood90712 Posts: 108
    Natural gas prices on the market hit a one year low this week ,about $ 6.60 / million btu , but the price at long beach energy jumped from $ 1.48 to $1.66. Coincidence ?
  • londnrlondnr Posts: 55
    From what I understand Clean Energy or ENRG or whatever they are called have managed to negotiate a takeover of the Long Beach Energy CNG system and the changeover is due to go into effect soon. That being said, ENRG is way too greedy to only increase the price by 18 cents per gge.

    I suspect that we will know when the change happens as the price will go through the roof, at least compared to LBE's regular pricing. I am not sure what ENRG is currently charging but last time I looked it was at least $2.50. We will also know when the fateful day arrives as ENRG is going to replace the Long Beach pumps with the newer (and in my opinion less effective) type seen at all of their stations.
  • timontimon Posts: 4
    Yes it true, Clean Energy is going to take over the Long Beach Energy Stations and when they do the price is going to go up at least $0.75 per GGE. You know the way Clean Energy works; even if Natural Gas prices go down they will raise prices if the price of gasoline goes up.

    There will be no completion along the 405 they can raise the price to what ever they want to. I bet that you'll see $3.00 per gge soon.

    Can this be stopped? Maybe since the Long Beach city council has not signed the contract yet, may in 3 weeks, we may be able to put pressure on to stop it.

    We need to make a mass showing at the city offices and the next city council meeting on the 23rd. If we don't try to stop this now or at least get Long Beach to force Clean Energy to set a fix amount over natural gas cost then get ready to pay $3.00 a gge.
  • londnrlondnr Posts: 55
    I am all for any protest. I think that there has been a rush to off load the CNG pumps without really thinking things through.

    First I know that LBE made a profit on the station, maybe not much, but they did make money instead of losing it.

    Also, now all city owned vehicles will be paying more for CNG, not as much as the public but still over the price that the City buys its natural gas for.

    I wonder if the contract has taken into consideration the loss of a money making venture, plus the increased cost fueling their fleet with their own resources.

    I am still mad that a few years ago the Utilities were pushing NGVs, saying that the price of natural gas was so cheap because we have an abundant domestic supply. Now they see the potential of tracking the price of a gallon of gas, when will their greed end? I guess the environment wasn't the real concern after all was it?

    What do you propose?
  • dsgd47dsgd47 Posts: 1
    Burbank 1.66
    Azusa 1.98
    Ontario 1.72
    Gas 3.00+
    Using Phill at home ~1.00
  • rstrst Posts: 73
    $2.16 at Van Nuys today. Where is the Burbank station?
  • Most recent fills of CNG at public stations have been $1.90 to $2.00/Gal. Gas Equivalent. Our '99 Honda has averaged 34 miles/GGE since we bought it 2,000 miles ago.

    Trillium had been $1.73, but recently increased to $1.90. PG&E had been $1.90, but I haven't gotten a bill since Trillium's price went up, and I expect PG&E will also increase. Clean Energy had been around $2.00, but I haven't used them lately.
  • rstrst Posts: 73
    tried the Santa Monica SoCal Gas plant at $2.49. (now it is clean energy) cheaper than avgas, but not as fun to go get.
  • These are all recent from last 2 weeks
    Hemet 1.98
    Diamond Bar 1.99
    Placentia 2.25
    Garden Grove (CE) 2.45
  • stohl2stohl2 Posts: 4
    $1.66 at Burbank station as of 8-30-06. It is located on Lake and Chestnut (kind of by the Costco).
  • rstrst Posts: 73
    thanks,

    that is cheaper than I can pump it at home!
  • (9/1)Hemet went up to 2.20
    (9/5)Diamond Bar went up to 2.09
  • (9/6) Hemet is 2.052 / GGE
  • Berkeley Trillium up to $1.96 (from $1.89 a couple weeks ago).

    boo! why? aren't NG futures declining (as well as regular gas prices declining, which we all know CNG seems to track)
  • (9/12) Placentia 2.289
  • Azusa $2.05 gge
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