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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan: Warranty/Extended Warranty

2

Comments

  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    JD Power is the industry standard!!!??? YOu have got to be kidding. Their longterm reliability is based on 3 years of ownership. Hardly long term. No survey (not even CR) is the industry standard. They all have flaws and should only be used as a tool.

    Ford needed this warranty to help sell cars. Sales are down and they need to restore consumer confidence in their vehicles. The Fusion is a nice vehicle, very competitive with the top selling cars (take note GM). It will need this boost to compete with the Camry and Accord. These are formidable cars, great sales, resale value and history of reliabilty (or at least you know you won't be upside down after 2 years). With the warranty, it gives folks a reason to give Ford a chance. The problem with marketing tools like this is if quality is still not up to par, what do you do for an encore?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    This particular JD Power study was 5 yrs, not 3. The JD Power survey is much more statistically accurate than CR. CR only surveys subscribers, not a random sample of owners, and they don't publish actual numbers of problems - only circles.

    Granted it doesn't tell you which ones are more costly to repair but it does tell you how many problems occurred which is important.

    And the newer Ford vehicles like the Mustang, 500 and Fusion are even better than the 5 yr old models used for the Power survey.

    I'm not bashing Hyundai - they're a solid player with solid products. But they're not better than Ford - yet.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    IQS is meaningless IMO (and that's without looking at who ranks where - doesn't matter). If we only owned cars for 90 days I guess it would be pertinent. Would you rather have 3 problems in the first 90 days and no more for 5 years or have 0 in the first 90 days and 10 more over the next 5 years?

    IQS is important to the mfrs because a bad rating means you might be pissing off new customers or you either have a dealer problem or assembly issue that needs to be addressed. But consumers should be looking at 3-5 yr ratings.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,800
    I'm not bashing Hyundai - they're a solid player with solid products. But they're not better than Ford - yet.

    I have owned Fords and I have owned Hyundais, with the possible exception of the Mustang I will stick with Hyundai.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    I disagree that the IQS is "meaningless". In my experience with many new cars, most problems surfaced in the first 90 days. Thus I find the IQS useful, if not the complete picture. I like to know about things like dealer issues, design issues (captured by the IQS), and assembly issues.

    BTW, the VDS covers three years, as noted in the report's press release:

    The study, which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old (2002 model-year) vehicles, provides useful information to both consumers and the automotive industry on long-term vehicle quality.

    http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089

    It will be interesting to see what the IQS score of the Fusion/Milan is. I doubt the 2006 study included them, or many of them. Also, a new VDS should be out any day now; the last one was released in June 2005. But that one may not include any Fulans yet; it will probably cover 2003-05 vehicles.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,800
    I also have issues with CR don't trust it one bit for reasons I won't get into now. But another question on IQS is how much more likely is someone going to report a minor problem if they own a $85k Land Rover over a $17K Ford?

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    I don't know. They don't seem to have any trouble reporting issues with $15k Kias and $20k Minis! ;)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    Sorry - that study was 3 yrs so it was looking at 2002 model year vehicles. They used to do a 5 yr study.

    Based on the lack of problems being reported on the Mustang, 500/Montego/Freestyle and Fusion/Milan/Zephyr I think Ford will be moving up the charts over the next several years.

    Let's face it - unless you're at the very top or the very bottom there's not a huge difference. The worst cars today are better than the best cars 20 yrs ago.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,800
    No they don't but when you buy a $85K car you tend to notice and/or complain about more mundane things. There might be something that an owner of a 15K kia might not notice that a owner of a $85K Rover would complain about.

    You spend $85K for a car you expect it to be perfect.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Lexus owners don't seem to have that problem. Let's face it, based on the JD Power survey some luxury makes like Land Rover and Mercedes-Benz seem to have some problems. But now back to our regularly-scheduled topic...
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    The biggest problem with MB has been the electronics. They simply got too complicated in a quest for electronic gadgetry supremacy.

    And a lot of Hummer buyers are reporting poor fuel mileage as a problem which might also be the case for LR. I guess they don't read the EPA numbers on the sticker.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,800
    And a lot of Hummer buyers are reporting poor fuel mileage as a problem

    What? A 4.3 ton Army truck getting bad gas mileage????? Alert the news media!!!!

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    I'll bet your average Lexus has a lot of electronics too. There are lots of excuses for poor quality.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    I'll bet your average Lexus has a lot of electronics too.

    Yes but nowhere near as much as MB.

    http://www.autoserviceworld.com/article.asp?id=31153&issue=06012004

    A Mercedes-Benz electronics vice president recently told an innovation symposium that it had already removed 600 electronic functions from its cars and that the process continues.
    In a 20-minute address, Stephan Wolfsried spoke against overloading the car with electronic functions that have no use for the customer.
    "Last year we removed over 600 functions from our cars - functions that no one really needed and no one knew how to use," Wolfsried said, according to Automotive News Europe.
    Because of failing integration into the overall electronics infrastructure, they only tend to cause the malfunctioning of really important electronic parts, he said.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    And a lot of Hummer buyers are reporting poor fuel mileage as a problem which might also be the case for LR. I guess they don't read the EPA numbers on the sticker.

    That is precicely what the problem is (But Hummer isn't built by Land Rover BTW). I remember reading news stories from USAToday and the likes reporting the same thing.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    Statistically accurate??? I disagree but that is another debate in another forum. I equate JD Power to Motor Trend's Car of the Year. Great for marketing but nothing else. Just my opinion.

    the best way to determine is talk to a trusted mechanic. Someone who knows cars and has worked on them and has access to more data then you and I.

    Ford's new cars are very nice. the warranty will help. You only go to extended warranties when there is a consumer confidence issue. Hyundai had to do after the disatrous Excel of the 80's and 90's. Chrylser had to do it to restore faith in their transmissions. The good thing is Ford does have some good products on the lot and in the pipeline. Of course it does not help today's owners and their bad experiences influences future sales more than an extended warranty.

    Ford has to really step it up with the engines and reliability. No excuse (other than pre-exisitng contracts that needed to be fulfilled) to introduce the 500 and Freestyle with a leftover Taurus engine. They should be embarassed by the Freestar. NO better than the troublesome Windstar and a 4.2 L engine that only produces 201 hp and worst fuel efficiency then the leaders. Too many reported trannies dying at only 40k miles and Ford is not backing the owners. The Explorer at one time was the definition of the mid-size SUV. No longer. Go read that forum and see all the problems brewing there. the Focus....let's not go there.

    Like you mention, Mustang, 500 and Fusion are better but only time will tell how they hold up. Is this enough to stop the bleeding?
  • what he really meant to say was that Germans can't make a good car anymore, and that they will let Lexus surpass them on the electronics front, because they can't take the time and effort that it takes to fully think ideas through, and implement them successefully.

    These electronics could have helped reduce weight and effeciency of the cars, now that MB cars are getting degenerated to the state of other cars in the marketplace, they will loose there last toehold to the reputation the three pointed star once had.

    Its OK, GM and Toyota will take over. Meybe Lincoln if ford does the right thing, and cans all the luxury divisions nameplates and makes Lincoln the size and scope of MB, bieng made in facotries were all the jags and LR's are made.

    It will also reduce costs.

    And to the naysayers about the warrentee, please buy a 2007 Camry, be sure to go to a dealer whos next to a good mechanic ;)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    Hummer isn't built by Land Rover BTW

    I never said they were. I was saying that some of the "problems" being reported by LR owners might be poor fuel mileage just like the Hummer owners.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    How can the opinion of 1 mechanic be more statistically accurate than a random sample of 50,000 car owners?

    They had a really good excuse for releasing the 500 with the 3.0L engine - the 3.5 was 2 years late to market and they needed new cars. Same with the Zephyr. Why the 3.5L was 2 years late is another discussion. Ford does seem to be taking a long time to get things to market. I suspect the delays are partially responsible for the increased quality but at some point you have to speed things up.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    My credit union acts as an intermediary for extended warranties. So I can compare prices on identical warranties for different cars. Since the warranty company is in business to make money, I think this is a pretty good indicator.

    For their most comprehensive, 7 year/100,000 mile, no deductible warranty price is $1292 for Fusion/Milan and $1020 for Honda Accord. Ford seems to be doing very well on this to get a price that close to one of the benchmarks for reliable cars.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,800
    Question are these factory backed warranties or third party?

    Also I wouldn't use the price of the extended warranty as the only gauge of reliability. It could be a big mistake.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    3rd party.

    It is one gauge...not the only one. It does have the advantage of including some measure of the significance of problems because it looks at cost not number of problems. OTOH, it soes not tell you if car was in 25 times under warranty.

    "Reliability" is not really an issue I pay much attention too. Almost all cars are pretty reliable these days. IF the extended warranty cost is way out of line then it is a concern...ran into that when my wife considered a Jaguar x-type.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,800
    3rd party.

    Since 3rd party warranty companies have a nasty habit of denying claims or even closing shop before you even have a chance of having a claim I would trust them as a gauge at all.

    It is one gauge...not the only one. It does have the advantage of including some measure of the significance of problems because it looks at cost not number of problems.

    Here lies another problem, if the extended warranty costs more does it really mean that they are less reliable? Extending a Honda warranty to 7 years 100K miles only extends it by 2 years and 40K miles for the drive train, but for 4 years 64K miles for the Ford (until recently but I am presuming your figures are not up to the second figures) so I would expect Fords to be more since its a longer warranty.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The 3rd party providing the warranty was selected by the credit union to provide a benefit to their members. I doubt they selected a company with a history of not paying claims. But, in any case, they must have some basis for setting different prices for different cars.

    Yes, the prices were before Ford's announcement of the new warranty. When did Honda go to 5 year power train warranty? I was not aware of that...but yes differences in mfr warranty should be factored in. And you are right this makes the Ford quote look even better.

    Most cars I have gotten rates for do not vary all that much they are mostly between that Honda figure and about $1500...this is not enough to be a factor in my car buying decisions. So most cars are reliable enough that reliability is a non-factor for me.

    The exception was the X-type. The warranty was only available for 6 years and 80,000 miles for that car and the cost was close to $3000, IIRC...despite the fact that it had 4 yr mfr warranty. In that case the extended warranty information was a factor in deciding against the vehicle.

    Warrnty cost is more meaningful to me than things like the number of JD Powers "problems" per 100 vehicles or CR's self-selected self-reported data on "problems". But, I think all of these things taken together can give a pretty good idea, especially if they all are telling you the same thing.
  • oldcemoldcem Posts: 309
    In the case of the X-Type, you should have checked Jag's extended warranty program. I just bought an 06 with the Extra Mile Jag warranty for 7years-100K miles. Cost me $2400. AAA's extended warranty quote was $3800 for less coverage. Got a couple other quotes from reputable warranty firms - both were in the $1600 range, but, had higher deductables, and, lesser coverage than Jag's warranty. I also got a quote on an extended factory warranty on my Chrysler - they wanted $3k to extended it on my Sebring!!
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    In the case of the X-Type, you should have checked Jag's extended warranty program.

    I don't actually buy extended warranties, just using them as one data point for determining expected "reliability". In Jaguar's case there were plenty of other warning signs that the X-type was having a lot of problems, when we were considering one in late 2004. As I recall, it was off the charts in negative territory in CR for example. There were other reasons we decided against the car too, despite the pricing of $6000 below invoice at that time.

    I just bought an 06 with the Extra Mile Jag warranty for 7years-100K miles. Cost me $2400.

    Probably a good idea with a Jag :lemon: :) . I do not like extended warranties in general...I'd rather keep the money and pay for repairs myself. In addition, extended warranties do not do a lot for us, since we do not put that many miles on. Maybe 8000 per year...so even a 7 year warranty only gives us 56,000 miles.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    let's agree to disagree on JD Powers. I have my reasons after studying their methods and participating in a couple of their surveys. CR has it flaws but I trust it more than JD Powers. Each is simply one tool in the car buying process. I trust my mechanic even more. Amazing what you can learn in casual conversations with people.

    I understand why they released the 500 with the 3.0 L engine but I would not call it a good excuse. Instead they release a decent car when they needed an AWESOME car which it would have been with the 3.5L. This is why the Fusion is so appealing. They had all the right pieces for the launch. Whether it holds up, only time wil tell. The longer warranty will definitely help the Fusion since it already is competitive with the top cars.

    Ford is in the same boat as GM. The market changed quickly and neither one was prepared. They were fat and happy off their SUV and pickup sales of the 90's. They both need to change how they operate. it's not the 50's or even the 80's anymore. There are more choices on the market. their companies have to be leaner and more adaptable. they are no longer the innovators. Both have allowed labor and contract issues to dictate their product line instead the product itself. Both companies still have a lot of work to do, it will get uglier before it gets better.

    The good thing for Ford is they have good products (500, Fusion, Mustang, even the Freestyle) on the lot. I can't say the same for GM. No reason for me to visit a Chevy, Saturn, Buick or Pontiac dealership.
  • snowman89snowman89 Posts: 36
    I took delivery of our '06 Fusion SE last nite and was informed that '06 Ford vehicles sold on or after 7/14 would be given the 5 yr / 60K extended powertrain warranty which makes me a very happy customer from the start. Other domestic car makers should folllow Ford's lead in this area. Love the car so far...very roomy, quiet, and comfortable. Someone asked about a/c operation at very high temperatures...does it work effectively?
  • to see you like your car. This new warrentee should help drive people to the brand. I hope people take notice.
  • dlangdlang Posts: 59
    Per Ford, "A 2006 Model Year Ford vehicle sold on or after July 14, 2006 will be covered by a complimentary 5year/60,000 Mile Ford ESP PowertrainCARE extended service contract with a $100 deductible."

    So, those of us who bought a 2006 Milan pre-7/14/06 we get nothing? Why not a 4 year/40K? If you bought on 7/13/06 you got 3/36 and on 7/14/06 you get 5/50. Should be something for those who bought in early 2006.

    Ford should thank us for early buying the gas guzzling Milan and losing more money on gas sooner than newer purchasers!
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