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Pontiac Grand Prix GXP 2006

Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830
    Will the added power make this Grand Prix a hit?

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  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    We'll see, but as I understand it, at least the initial run of the GXP will be a 2005, not 2006, though the Chevy 'versions' will be a 2006.

    - Ray
    Thinking 40+ more HP and 40+ more TQ than the GTP at the same curb weight makes it interesting, at least . . .
  • ocmike3ocmike3 Posts: 232
    Maybe - having owned both the 3800's (normally aspirated & supercharged); even though the GTP had 40 more hp & 50 ft-lbs than the GT. With the enhanced TC, the GTP had less torque steer and wheel spin. I expect Pontiac has played with the TC, it will also have Stabilitrak and the GXP will have larger(wider) front tires. The aluminum V8 doesn't appear to have affected the weight balance much, so the GXP will be fun. I can't wait to drive one.
  • avs007avs007 Posts: 97
    I wonder what the average selling price will be. I configured one on Edmunds, and got a tmv of a Shade under 36K. That seems pretty Steep.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    They shouls have given the GXP more standard equipment. I was surprised by the loaded price of $35K+. I cant believe they didnt make leather and the uplevel sound system standard.
  • ocmike3ocmike3 Posts: 232
    The GXP will have most of the upgrades of the GTP + Comp G package (HUD,Stabilitrak,TAP shift...) I've read that Pontiac will price the GXP at ~$29k. with some options $32k-$33k will load one up nicely. It could go to $35k but they will be pushing their luck.
    The GXP is only 17 lbs heavier than the GTP so HP to weight ration improves.
    Check out this link for the equipment and options:
    http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/vehiclesel.jsp?year=2005&regionID=1&divisionID=7-
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    Obviously they are pricing it in anticipation of rebates. I dont think $30K is too much considering the power of this car, but $35K loaded isnt going to work. They made the performance hardware standard, but not the luxury features.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    I have to disagree with the GTP having LESS torque steer and wheel spin then a GT, having owned a 1997 and now 2002 GTP coupe and driven many renta car GT sedans.. my GTP has DEFINITELY MUCH MORE Wheelspin and a little more torque steer then the GT did. That was stock. Of course now with 300+ modified hp, it really has wheelspin, LOL!

    One easy change I have done to all my GTP is get rid of the avg P225 60 16 tire size and PUT P245 50 16, fit perfectly fine and doesn't mess up your ABS/traction at all. That way you get more traction and better handling, works for me. It also slightly lowers the car with that tire size, looks nice!
  • ocmike3ocmike3 Posts: 232
    My GTP had the enhanced TC and my GT the std. TC. The ETC got the spin and torque steer under control much better. I could spin both very well, but the ETC was less erratic.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The ETC and ABS control systems on the GTP is by Bosch, GM/Delphi or whoever used to do the TC/ABS on the GT. Not sure today about the GT. Regardless it is still too much power for a front drive car. Should have been rear drive. Oh well.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    My understanding is that the new GXP V8 GP will have the same EPA rating as the CompG (18 / 27) but with 43 more HP an increase in TQ also by 43, and essentially the same vehicle weight . . .

    Not too shabby.
    - Ray
    Waiting for the GXP to be available for test drives . . .
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    When I went to the autoshow in January the Ponitac info on hand said teh GXP would be out in April. I dont know if that's true or not because they have not updated the website with any info regarding the GXP.
  • ocmike3ocmike3 Posts: 232
    From articles I have seen production was supposed to start this month (March) which usually means deliveries 6 - 8 weeks out minimum. Pontiac has been very quiet about the launch and not putting out any updates that I have seen.
    I can't wait to take one out for a test drive and see how it compares to the current GTP. The suspension modifications should improve control and handling.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    LS4 link:

    http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/2005%20HPT%20Library/Gen%20IV/2005i_- - - 5300_LS4_Grand_Prix_GXP.pdf

    Looking at the Graphs for 3 motors (the LS4 5.3L V8, the Northstar 4.6 and the ‘old’ L67) I find the following of interest:

    = = = = = = 5.3L . . . . 4.6 . . . . L67

    HP @ 2000 . 115 . . . . 100 . . . . 100
    TQ @ 2000 . 300 . . . . 265 . . . . 250

    HP @ 3000 . 180 . . . . 150 . . . . 160
    TQ @ 3000 . 310 . . . . 275 . . . . 270

    HP @ 4000 . 245 . . . . 225 . . . . 220
    TQ @ 4000 . 320 . . . . 295 . . . . 280 (past peak)

    [these numbers are approximate, from these dyno curves - trying to line this data up as a chart . . .]

    Point being, compared to the L67 (a known and appreciated torque generator) and the Northstar (I have driven the new STS with this version of the motor – it is technically sophisticated, expensive to produce and I certainly respect it), this new 5.3L V8 quoted output is quite impressive. At least on paper.

    I end up spending a LOT of my drive time with the motor turning between 2000 and 4000 rpm. The torque available in this range is more important to me (most of the time) than peak horsepower.

    The 5.3L LS4 generates more torque and more horsepower at every point from 2000 to 4000 rpm than either of these other motors.

    I am looking forward to driving this car.

    - Ray
    Admitted torque addict . . .
  • cfazzaricfazzari Posts: 77
    The rep at the NY Auto Show said the GP GXP pricing will start at around $30,000 - Which is around $4000-$5000 less than the Bonneville GXP and you sacrifice nothing - Bonneville is not nearly as ergonomic as GP and both appear to be almost the same size. The GP GXP HP is rated higher than Bonnevilles (290 Vs. 275). I will still want to test drive this thing first - I am a big heavy guy and I need a big heavy car to combat the NYC highways. I'm not sure how durable anything smaller than an Impala SS or Lexus 330 will be. As it stands right now the GP GXP is the most perfect balance of performance & luxury I saw at the auto show for the $30000 - $36000 MSRP Price range.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The GP GXP will be a much better buy then GXP BOnny was. Actually the GP GXP is rated at 303hp, not 290. Even better! I would have to go with the GTO as one of best blends of luxury performance for under $35k. Interior is MUCH nicer then Grand prix, many magainzes call GTO one of GM's BEST interiors, better then Vettes. Seats are much nicer esp backseat then grand prix as well. As for a heavy car, the GTO is 250 lbs heavier then GP GXP. 3750 vs 3500
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The GXP is no smaller than an ES330 but it is smaller than the Bonneville. The pricing for this car is already on edmunds. Fully loaded it would cost about $35K which is too steep if you ask me. If you could get it loaded for $31K-$32K than I would be happy.
  • cfazzaricfazzari Posts: 77
    32K or 33K is my absolute maximum. Whatever I end up gettting will cost that and no more. So if the Pontiac Guy wants the business that's what they will get from me. If they don't want to deal I can probably convince the Chevy Impala SS Guy or the Chrysler 300 Guy or even the Mazda Speed 6 Guy to deal (The Lexus ES300 Guy may not be as willing to bend)... And if I have to wait until the end of the 2006 (yes 2006) model year I will. My dad used to say buy a car when you DON'T need one....smart guy he was too.

    I am amazed the GTO is heavier than the GP GXP. The GTO looks like a sculptured Grand Am.
  • The GTO is much larger then a Grand AM and has the additional weight of the independent rear axle assembly. Even heavier the GTO is MUCH quicker then a GP GXP.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Also not to mention that the GTO interior/seats is MUCH Nicer then the GP GXP. Sit in both and compare. One of GM's best interiors from what I read in Consumer Reports and Car & Driver and experienced. For GM I was quite suprised.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    In my opinion the GP GXP or any Grand Prix in it's current form is NOT worth $35k, esp with that interior and hard backseat. Yeah the 303hp V8 is nice, but not worth that. I don't even think a GP is worth $30k... under $30k in my opinion.

    In 2002 I got my GTP supercharged fully loaded for under $25k. For that price it was worth it, not $35k.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I dont think many people will be paying $35K for a GXP. That price includes Nav and I doubt many GXPs will be built with that option. I'm sure it will a few months before any incentives show up but $32K fully loaded isnt bad for a sedan that can run to 60 in 6secs. The TL offers comparable performance and a better interior but I'm bored with the TL's looks. Its a typical generic Japanese sedan.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    "I dont think many people will be paying $35K for a GXP. That price includes Nav and I doubt many GXPs will be built with that option. I'm sure it will a few months before any incentives show up but $32K fully loaded isnt bad for a sedan that can run to 60 in 6secs. The TL offers comparable performance and a better interior but I'm bored with the TL's looks. Its a typical generic Japanese sedan."

    = = =

    Couple of points here:

    1 – I am afraid that GM will likely need to put incentives on the GXP almost immediately – and the MSRP suggests to me that they understand that. Although the GXP represents significant additional value (to me – see list below) over the GTP, the market is just too soft to suggest that the GXP will be able to sell without such marketing support $$s. If there are $2K or $3K in rebates and a ‘deal’ = just over invoice less current incentives, the GXP actual transaction price may be worth it – to some.

    2 – With the many ‘new’ cars being introduced, I would be very surprised if the GXP made much of a ‘splash’. It may not be ‘new enough’. The mechanical changes may be of interest to some of those who were already aware of the Grand Prix GTP. The fact that this ‘new’ Grand Prix V8 remains a FWD, rather than a RWD platform will cause many to simply ignore it. The fact that it still has only a 4 speed automatic may annoy others. Others may be disappointed that the interior is largely unchanged. Etc. There is an incredibly wide range of choices in the $30K sedan market today. Including (just for example, in addition to several FWD sedans) excellent RWD sedans such as the Infiniti G35. A 2005 G35 MSRP starts at $31K / $32K. There are many others that ‘could’ be competitors, depending on your precise needs and wants and priorities - and how that translates to your definition of a competitor.

    3 – A decent OEM Navigation system seems pretty consistently to be a $2K option, if available outside a package, regardless of MSRP level. On a $50K+ Infiniti M it is priced roughly the same as on $30K cars. I would be surprised if many GXPs with this option appeared on dealer lots for stock. Certainly, in my area very few GTPs with this option have been in inventory recently. And on a $30K car, $2K represents a significantly larger percentage increment in price than the same $2K added to a $50K car – over 6.5% vs. 4%.

    I will reserve judgment until I see one and actually drive one. If the FWD effects (torque steer, etc.) are well managed, and if the V8 feels (and sounds) as I expect, and if the beefed up trans. appears to work well with the increased torque (over the GTP), and if the handling / ride compromise is to my taste, well - - we’ll see.

    Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .
    - Ray

    GXP over GTP features / content of interest to me:

    1 – All-aluminum LS4 - 5.3 V8 – HP / TQ = 303 / 323 w/DoD.

    1.5 – EPA rating of 18 / 27 = same as GTP, even with the increased HP / TQ.

    2 – Significantly upgraded / strengthened 4T65-E trans.

    3 – Bilstein gas-charged dampers and higher rate springs.

    3.5 – Stiffer rear stabilizer bar.

    3.7 – Lowered

    3.9 – 18” wheels / W-rated tires.

    4 – Significant brake upgrade.

    5 - Restyled front and rear. (In effect, this also includes the $675 PDC group of after production accessories - grill inserts, larger spoiler and exhaust tips.)

    From pictures I have seen, I particularly like the front re-style. I am willing to give one a test drive, when they start to appear on dealers’ lots – likely in late April / early May.

    Whether or not this is all worth the eventual, actual, negotiated transaction price, after discount and incentives is clearly up to every individual buyer. (I will be particularly interested to see if the current / recent $2K range of rebates on GP’s will be applied to the GXP.)

    A relatively ‘loaded’ GTP (CompG, NAV, roof, leather) MSRP is currently approx. $32.7K. Edmunds TMV shows $30.5. I find this rather bizarre, given the fact that the recent rebates were in the $2K range. And sales have NOT been strong.

    I’d expect actual prices paid recently (for a GTP equipped as described) to be more in the 28.5K range. Invoice less $1,500 of the rebate money leaves the dealer at $500 over invoice + holdback $$s. But I have not tried any negotiation – as the last I knew, GXPs are not yet shipping . . .
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    From:
    http://www.us.leaseplan.com/pnews/ponmain.htm

    - model – 2005 final order - - 2006 open order
    Grand Prix 4/27/2005 - - - - - 6/23/2005

    So, based on this – my question is:

    If I want to order a 2005 GXP, and I actually want to test drive one before I make a final purchase decision, does this mean I have only about 3 weeks for the GXPs to start showing up on dealers’ lots so I actually can drive one????

    I certainly do want GM to have all their I-s dotted and T-s crossed before they start shipping this car. Initial build / prep. quality is important for any new launch.

    But, if I buy one, I’d likely have to end up ordering one - with exactly the equipment I want and exactly the color I want. And I would be pretty surprised if any dealer near me happened to order exactly what I’d order.

    There are not even currently any “Pattern Orders” shown for the GXP. I wonder what (if?) dealers will order for equipment on GXPs destined for stock . . .

    - Ray
    Frustrated. And wondering if (essentially identical) 2006 GXPs will carry a higher MSRP . .
  • cfazzaricfazzari Posts: 77
    Although I've heard the GXP will be offered as a 2005 (actually more like a 2005.5) my feeling is that they may still just introduce the GXP as a 2006 model.
  • ocmike3ocmike3 Posts: 232
    Interesting the GXP is listed on the GM Buypower site and not on Pontiac's website. Pontiac has been real quiet about the intro of the GP GXP, sort of makes one wonder. If the Buypower site is accurate I could get $3500 cash or 0% (48 mos) + $1000 off a GP in my zip code. :surprise:
    A GP GXP with GTO seats - now that's something I could get excited about.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    "Pontiac has been real quiet about the intro of the GP GXP"

    My understanding is that the 'release to dealers for sale' has not been issued.
    Perhaps that is causing the delay - and 'quiet'.
    - Ray
    Waiting . . .
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    Here's an idea for a sport sedan comparison test featuring the new Pontiac Grand Prix GXP.

    Midsize Sport Sedans

    Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
    Chevrolet Impala SS
    Mazdaspeed 6
    Subaru Legacy
    Dodge Charger

    How does this sound
    Acura TSX
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    Here's an idea for a sport sedan comparison test featuring the new Pontiac Grand Prix GXP.

    Midsize Sport Sedans

    Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
    Chevrolet Impala SS
    Mazdaspeed 6
    Subaru Legacy
    Dodge Charger

    How does this sound?
    Acura TSX
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