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Hyundai Azera Transmission

ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
edited March 15 in Hyundai
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First, the seat preset switches only work with the ignition turned on.The seats are substantially flat and are lacking in adjust ability.

Other issues I had include rough idling, lulls in RPM before shifting, inconsistent shifting.


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I agree with these issues. I would add that all electronics are disabled without the key. I don't like it. I like to run the radio without the key and be able to charge the cell phone via the 12 v outlets without the ignition on. These certainly ARE annoyances.

Also, I've noticed lulls before shifts - especially when the engine is cold. Usually I can control shifts with manipulation of the accelerator, but I haven't been able to do that well with the Azera. There seems to be some hesitation as if the transmission is trying to decide whether to shift or not. The shifts are, for me, too smooth and seem to take forever to glide into the next gear. If you push on the accelerator when this "glide" is happening, it's almost as if the engine and transmission can't decide what to do.

However, I haven't noticed rough idling when the engine is warm and I have no problem with the feel of the brakes.
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Comments

  • frazeefrazee Posts: 90
    Agreed that it would be nice to enable memory setting before entry into the car; however if you get the EZ out programmed correctly, when you leave the car the seat goes 3/4 way back and steering wheel recedes to maximum...for easy entry for the largest driver on the next entry even before custom settings....so that offsets it a bit. Only problem is that most of the service departments don't have a clue about how to program that setting!!

    Ric...As for transmission "hesitation"...it is my understanding that the transmission "learns" somewhat from the way it has been drive over time. Did your car have some miles on it (showroom, transit etc.) where someone might have driven in a way to cause this "behavior." Mine is not hesitant at all....very smooth and downshifts decisively and upshifts almost un-noticeable, but not with any slush or hesitation. Have you tried to manu-shift? Perhaps using that for a while will "program" it for the kind of shifting you prefer? Again, this is something where it would be nice if Hyundai USA Marketing and Service had help orientation sessions for both sales, management and service people BEFORE the first sets of cars were on the road. Collectively on this board, we know a lot more than 99.9% of the Hyundai dealership personnel. We have read the technical service bulletins, but they seemingly have not. Most car manufacturers invite at least one salesperson and the manager, as well as a service manager or tech out to a proving ground to demo a new model and go through all features and "issues" from A to Z (sorry). I received a detailed questionnaire from Hyundai USA today about my 1/31 purchase and basically I gave the car an A and the sales experience an A, but the rest of the dealership and knowledge of car an F minus. Disgraceful.
  • ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
    image

    As for transmission "hesitation"...it is my understanding that the transmission "learns" somewhat from the way it has been drive over time. Did your car have some miles on it (showroom, transit etc.) where someone might have driven in a way to cause this "behavior."

    My car had over 400 miles on it when I purchased it. I haven't heard about the "learning" transmission. That's interesting. How is that supposed to work? I guess I can shift manually for a while and see if that helps "reprogram" the transmission to my liking.

    I also noticed that the throttle response on the Azera is fairly tame for the first 20% but then snaps fairly sharply into a burst of power just beyond that. Has anybody else noticed that? So, when I'm pulling from a dead stop, I can either take it very slowly and smoothly, or, if I push it just a tad too much, it darts forward -- even spinning the wheels some and then I have to back off because I didn't intend to go THAT quickly. In other words, the "mid-ground" of acceleration is hard to find. Either its "slow as she goes" or it's "launch time."

    I will get used to it and learn to adapt, but, right now, it is quite a bit different than my smooth V6 passat which had a much more predictable and controllable throttle response and gear shift.
  • frazeefrazee Posts: 90
    Ric, I am 99.9% sure this car has an "adaptive transmission" which means there is software which "learns" your driving patterns and changes the shift points. Here is a review of a car which has it: " the five-speed automatic is adaptive: Drive it gently, and it will shift up sooner, rewarding you with smooth acceleration and good gas mileage (20/26 mpg EPA City/Highway). If you're constantly on the throttle, the transmission learns that you like to drive quickly and will hold itself in each gear for more sprightly acceleration." Thus, if it had previously been driven by several drivers it may have curious "programming". If your dealer has a good tech, you should ask them if they can re-set the "brain" to learn your pattern from zero.
  • frazeefrazee Posts: 90
    From the spec sheet: "5-Speed Electronically Controlled Manually Interactive, Adaptive Automatic Transmission" The "adaptive" is the learning transmission which changes shift points/patterns based on how it is driven. I suggest, if you have confidence that the service department knows its stuff, you ask them to "zero out" the prior driving experience and start fresh; then drive it in your most frequent "scenario" as often as you can after that to "break it in." Good Luck (posting on this board is a royal pain....not sure if it is my computer but keeps telling me that I made a blank post....but sometimes it shows and sometimes not. )
  • zed421vzed421v Posts: 28
    If you disconnect car battery for a few hours, transmission appears to relearn. I had same problem and did this it seemed to help.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    If the memory seat position was set for a short person who last exited the car with the EZ exit feature, the seat will return to that position when the key is turned on. If the next person sitting in the drivers seat is tall or stout, the seat will move forward and crunch them while moving toward the short persons setting as soon as they turn the ignition on. This movement cannot be cancelled by pushing the other button.
  • That's how my Pathfinder works as well. :cry:
  • frazeefrazee Posts: 90
    That is correct....so depending on the sequence of drivers, if there are two with very different settings (kind of like leaving the toilet seat up or down for the next user?) you need to dope that out between them if that should be the case. I completely agree that it is much better (and should have been doped out by Hyundai) for the fob to pre-set the memory preferences before the driver enters....but that cannot be retro-fixed as the car is not wired for it (just as it is not set up for the pedal adjustments to be integrated into the memory system or the mirrors to tilt down without MAJOR work)....so this board helps us all become a little bit creative in maximizing the "workarounds" for whatever doesn't work for us. Another issue is the lack of Blue Tooth and I know that Motorola has a Blue Tooth Module.....but don't know how it integrates with the system and how a "hands free" integrates to do an automatic radio pause when phone rings etc. Will try and begin to dope that one out as an in-car, hands-free phone is something I would like to have, without a "Rube Goldberg" solution
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    Memory seat:
    According to the Service Manager at my local dealership, the memory seat function without key in ignition can be retro fixed. It probably will require a relay being installed to activate the computer without the ignition turned on. He informed me that he is a member of the Hyundai engineering committee, and that he will pursue the problem. More complaints to Hyundai US will generate more attention to owner concerns.
  • lhalstromlhalstrom Posts: 12
    Still haven't gone through a half tank of gas yet, but the Average Fuel Consumption Display feature registered 33.3 mpg at the end of a 60 mile freeway trip through the mountains of Montana. I reset the display at the beginning of the trip. This engine only has about 170 miles on it too. Still breaking it in mode, not exceeding 55mph for the first 1200 miles.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Don't know why you're keeping it below 55 mph, the book only says to run the engine between 2000 & 4000 rpm...not to exceed 4000 rpm. You can drive at your normal speeds, just don't do the hard starts/stops. The reasoning...you want the transmission to "learn" your style of driving so that the shift points will set. If you drive one way now and then change up after the break in period...you'll need to disconnect the battery for a few minutes to let the transmission reset and re-teach it.
  • lhalstromlhalstrom Posts: 12
    My owners manual says not to exceed 55mph. It also says not to exceed 4000rpm in any gear. The 55mph is typical for most engine breakin speeds. They don't want you to rev the engine past 4000 if you are using the sportshift mode through the gears and not to exceed 55mph. The driver adaptive shift logic of the transmission will not be affected by what your top end speed is, only how fast you got it there to 5th. The harder you give it the gas determines your shift point memory. I am not a lead foot, so my shift point memory will be different than a person who floors it to get to 55mph.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Exactly my point...just drive it easy, but not like you're driving Miss Daisy!!! ;)
  • ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
    My owners manual says not to exceed 55mph. It also says not to exceed 4000rpm in any gear.

    Hmmm. . . My owner's manuals states there IS NO formal "break-in" for the engine.
  • lhalstromlhalstrom Posts: 12
    I really don't understand your point. :confuse: You assume I would want to drive the way you do and say I'll need to disconnect the battery to erase the driving style I believe is best for my vehicle's longevity, me, my pocket book and energy conservation. In fact my driving style is what your owners manual recommends for energy conservation. That's what I want my driver adaptive shift logic to memorize. It's not your decision to say how people should drive their cars, when you say not to drive it "like you are driving Miss Daisy". ;)
  • 101649101649 Posts: 192
    Check section 1-3 in the manual...55mph and rpms between 2k and 4k...for the initial break in.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    You're really reading into it a little too much. The point is...the manual says to keep the rpm's below 4000 in any gear. You can exceed 55 mph and keep the tach under 4000. :surprise:

    To assume that I've told anyone how to drive is perposterous! The quip about "driving Miss Daisy" wasn't to be meant literally, but then again, you may be one of those that live in a literal world...my apologies if you took offense. :shades:

    The only thing I stated was that if you do drive easy in the beginning, and it's not your normal style, then you would maybe want to disconnect the battery so that the transmission can reset and then you can drive normal so that it may "learn". ;)

    So...sit back, take a deep breath, play some Yani and relax. Wait a minute...scratch that, you may think I'm "TELLING" you what to do again. I would also hate to think that I'm telling you that you even like Yani to begin with. Oh...what the heck, do it anyway! :P

    As far as driving style, I live in the DC area and I drive in a manner that allows me to flow with traffic and not be the one holding it up. Simply put, I drive to survive! ;)
  • ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
    Check section 1-3 in the manual...55mph and rpms between 2k and 4k...for the initial break in.

    Here's what the manual states:

    During the First 1,200 miles (2,000 Km).

    No formal "break-in" procedure is required with your new Hyundai. However, you can contribute to the economical operation and durability of your Hyundai by observing the following recommendations during the frist 1,200 miles (2,000 km).

    * Don't drive faster than 55 MPH (88 km/h)
    * While driving, keep your engine speed (rpm or revolutions per minute) between 2,000 rpm and 4,000 rpm)
    * Use moderate acceleration. Don't start quickly or depress the accelerator pedal fully.
    * For the first 200 miles (300 km) try to avoid hard stops.
    * Whether doing fast or slow, vary your speed from time to time.
    * Don't let the engine idle longer than 3 minutes at one time
    * Don't tow a trailer during the first 1,200 miles (2,000 km) of operation.

    I guess it's best to do what you can. A lot of those recommendations are unrealistic. If a deer jumps in front of your Azera, you're going to probably "hard brake". Keeping the rmp between 2,000 and 4,000 is almost impossible. Never letting the car idle for more than 3 minutes can be difficult in some situations. Keeping the speed under 55 can actually be dangerous on some freeways.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    Just got home from Hyundai Dealership. I asked them about resetting or zeroing out the computer setting that controls the shift points for the transmission. After doing some research, he determined that it can't be zeroed out.
    If anyone has been given different information, I would appreciate your sharing it.
  • mechanic80mechanic80 Posts: 122
    I don't know if it CAN'T be reset/erased, but I can tell you than in the 9 weeks of driving my Azera it has learned my driving habits. (I bought it with 336 miles and it had learned "old lady" shifts) It no longer "levels off" with a slow shift between 1 and 2. I like acceleration, and it now has a pronounced, crisp, almost snap of a 1-2 shift and the subsequent shift points are at higher RPMs like I like it. It has taken almost 2 months of driving to learn, so be patient. I really don't know if using the manumatic function more has any affect on the learning curve, but it was lots of fun. ;)
  • ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
    image

    My shifts on the transmission just don't "feel right." I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes and reconnected in hopes that the "learning points" were reset. I didn't notice any difference, however, afterward.

    Shifts are mushy and inconsistent -- both down-shifting and up-shifting. RPMs surge up and down even within the same gear.

    Example: I'm traveling up a hill at 40 MPH. In 5th gear it is at about 1300 RPM. I push on the gas more to keep it at 40MPH, I notice a definite down-shift and surge and the RPMs go up to about 2200 RPM. But then I put it in the "manual" shift position and I notice that I'm still in 5th gear. Odd, because I "felt" a definite down shift and surge.

    So, then I DO down-shift manually to 4th. The RPMs jump to about 2500 and then fall drastically to about 1600, yet my speed hasn't changed. It's almost like the transmission slipped for a moment and then caught on.

    I keep it manually in 4th gear and push on the gas to accelerate and then there is the "feel" of a down-shift" and the RPMs jump back up to about 2200, yet the instrumentation indicates I'm still in 4th gear. I then take my foot off the gas completely, and there's a "lag" feeling (almost like the engine's going to die) and the RPMS bounce way down to about 1200. I press on the gas again and I surge forward and the RPMs bounce up to 2200. All of this while still manually in 4th gear.

    Then I shift to fifth gear manually and there's a definite shift down and the RPMs drop to about 1200.

    But all of these "shifts" and "surges" and "lags" and RPM changes all within the SAME gear is odd to me. And I can do these things in ANY gear. It's like I have 20 total gears all going up and down all over the place while I'm driving.

    I'm used to my Passat which was very predictable in shifting while in the automatic mode. I could easily manipulate the accelerator to precisely change the shift point. And in the manual mode was very crisp and clean when I up or down shifted. The Azera is just the opposite and I'm having a very hard time getting used to it.
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Posts: 559
    That's lame. Just pull over to the side and shoot it.
  • frazeefrazee Posts: 90
    I am NOT a mechanic...however, it is my understanding that there are two "influences" on the way your transmission shifts:
    a.) the "Transmission Control Module" which picks up information from other systems in the car (which are independent of your own particular driving habits)
    b.) "Adaptive" mechanism for the transmission which DOES change over time with your own driving behavior (not sure if it serves as additional input to the Transmission Control Module or whether this is another unit?)

    In any event, it is my understanding further that:
    a.) The Transmission Control Module can be checked and modified (if necessary) with their scanning tools
    b.) The "memory" for the transmission can be erased by disconnecting the battery (however, that also will force you to re-enter a lot of other information which should be on some kind of separate battery back-up, but is not!!)

    I would try and get some response from Hyundai USA about getting your transmission to perform more to your liking. I do know that there was a major issue years ago with harsh shifting Hyundai transmissions that led to a class-action lawsuit....so they will probably be sensitive to helping in this area, since it seems like you and Ric are having the opposite problem (too subtle?)

    I am coming from a BMW 740iL which really kicks you in the pants when you downshift, so it is hard for me to make a judgement as to whether this is correct behavior, but mine is also quite "smooth" whereas I would rather have the more pronounced downshifts.
  • tinydog1tinydog1 Posts: 83
    What you are probably experiencing when you feel a slight downshift but still in the same gear is the torque converter unlocking. Lock-up occurs at about 35+mph depending on model and driving situation. New trannys are designed to hold gears longer to prevent hunting and maximize fuel economy. I use the manual shift mode on my Azera daily because I have a 200ft hill to climb in my neighborhood, I live on the top of the hill, with 2 speed bumps on the way up, so I got tired of being in 3rd at 15mph after slowing to go over bumps. I downshift to 2nd right before hitting the speedbump and the car accelerates briskly without lags. I have to do that on my 2006 Sonata LX and had to do it on my 2003 Sonata LX and 2004 XG350L.
  • frazeefrazee Posts: 90
    With our recent discussion of the transmission, it is ironic that in an overall highly favorable review of the Azera in Friday's Wall Street Journal, the highest praise is: "a smooth-shifting five speed transmission helps mak accelerating, passing and climbing steep hills seem fairly effortless by allowing the engine to make less noticeable transitions from one gear to the next." I guess one man's minus is another man's plus?
  • ray_h1ray_h1 Posts: 1,134
    "I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes and reconnected in hopes that the "learning points" were reset. I didn't notice any difference, however, afterward. ... Shifts are mushy and inconsistent -- both down-shifting and up-shifting. RPMs surge up and down even within the same gear."

    Starting with late 2004 or early 2005 production, disconnecting the battery no longer erases the TCM's "learned" shift quality programming in Hyundai automatic transmissions. That can only be accomplished now using the High-Scan code reader/reprogrammer tool. Much of the "mushy" shifting in your new transmission is the result of brand new clutch facings that are still establishing a full seat against their driven plates. It'll get better. Still, you might wanna check your AT fluid level on the off chance it's a bit low. Your owner's manual gives instructions and it isn't rocket science. Use ONLY SP-III ATF for top up if necessary. NEVER fill above the full mark on the ATF dipstick. Some of your phantom shifts when ascending a slight grade at ~40mph could well be nothing more than torque converter lockup kicking out. That speed is about where TCL is engaged, so if the engine is pulling, the trannie may "hunt".
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,296
    The Azera was favorably reviewed in the Wall Street Journal yesterday. Although they did not like the wind deflector and faux wood finishes the review was generally upbeat.

    “After driving several large, top-of-the-line sedans in the past couple of years, some costing more than $80,000, we wondered whether the new, $28,000 Hyundai Azera might put them all to shame. That didn't happen.

    “…Handling is reasonably sharp, and the car's suspension, while too soft for vigorous sport-sedan-style driving, gives a nice combination of isolation from bumps and feedback from the road.”

    “…The Azera appears to mark the end of buyers having to explain their reasons for buying a Hyundai. Where previous models lagged behind the competition in design, quality and performance, the Azera is at least on par with rivals. We also think it has a prettier shape than many competitors. Its low cost is simply icing on the cake.”

    Nonetheless, at $28K the Azera is too expensive and I would never buy it regardless of what the Wall Street Journal says.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    Right again!
    The only resetting of the "Adaptive" shifting is to reenter the current settings if the transmission is replaced. Why one would want to do this is beyond me.
    The Hyundai computer tool can't accomplish this task
  • frazeefrazee Posts: 90
    You say "at $28K the Azera is too expensive and I would never buy it "

    Not sure I understand why, unless you are so conscious of the brand-status that you would rather drive a different name that you think projects a different image for yourself?

    1.) I have not seen an unfavorable review from ANY source...Every reviewer (knowledgeable car people who do this for a living) have heaped varying degrees of praise and have ESPECIALLY noted that the car is anything but "too expensive". The Wall Street Journal mentioned about $5,000-$7,000 if I recall, as the value excess.
    2.) I have not seen one purchaser amongst ALL of the ones who have posted on this forum and have posted almost 100 reviews, indicate they have had ANY serious problem with the car during the first 1,000-4,000 miles. Truly amazing.
    3.) The feature set found on the Limited Ultimate, which includes such nice touches as:
    rain-sense windshield wipers, light-sense headlight control, true driver/passenger A/C-heat individual settings with rear-passenger outlets, high-quality air filter, rear window automatic sunshade, 310 watt (read carefully--310 watt) Infinity Stereo with 6 disc in-dash CD, plays MP3 discs and reads codes, stereo cassette, full-size spare (thank you!), fold-down rear seats with huge 16 cu ft. trunk to boot (bad pun), power side mirror retractors, real leather seats with nice stitching, memory settings for power seat, electric tilt/telescope steering column and sideview mirrors, expensive Gentex rearview mirror with electronic compass and homelink built in, eyeglass holder, only car in its class with electric tilt/telescope steering wheel and EZ-out programming; electronic stability control, anti-lock brakes, all airbags and side gear, cruise control, active-restraint headrests, 0-60 in around 6.5 seconds, 5 year 60k bumper-bumper warranty, sunroof/moonroof, ergonomically-pleasant (as the WSJ also emphasized...nice car to spend a lot of time in!!), good looking, huge interior space with giant back seat and legroom.....

    I can understand if you just don't like Hyundai, don't like "foreign" cars, don't like the styling...but when you say it is "too expensive" I don't understand what you are talking about. Car can be bought out the door as above for $27,500 approx. If depreciation has you worried, and you don't intend to own the car more than 4-5 years (at which time you will overcome depreciation for an Avalon with difference in price) then you can lease the car....but TOO EXPENSIVE??? NO WAY JOSE
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,296
    As I have said before the Azera might be a nice car for someone moving up from a Chevy or Saturn but a definite step down from an Avalon or even an Accord EX or Camry XLE. In my opinion, the Sonata is a much better deal in terms of price, features and performance.

    Obviously, Azera owners must find a way to justify shelling out $27-$28K for a $20,000 car. But in no way is the Azera an entry luxury sedan.
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