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Toyota Avalon Engine Questions

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  • tfeltontfelton Posts: 80
    As I mentioned in a previous post last week I would go to my Toyota dealer today and ask about the replacement Pipe Oil No. 2 all metal line. The Toyota Service Mgr. said he has seen a few leaking rubber lines through the years. I have scheduled to have the line replaced and it will be done tomorrow since they had to order the part. The cost is $39.22 for the part and $126.00 for labor.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 230
    That is a very reasonable price for the "fix", the price of the part and about 2 hrs. labor, which it will take to install the new metal line. Your service manager obviously realizes what he he needs to do to keep you as a satisfied Toyota owner.

    It is an upgrade that is definitely worth the peace of mind it gives. I was becoming very reluctant to go "out of town" until I got the metal line.
  • kenb757kenb757 Posts: 149
    Why wouldn't this repair be covered under the powertrain warranty?
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 230
    It probably should be, but Toyota has not published a TSB or done anything to acknowledge that a non-leaking rubber/metal hose can fail without warning and drain most of the oil out of the engine.

    At the present, the all metal replacement is merely an "upgrade" at the owner's expense if there is no leak from the existing hose. If there is a leak under warranty, either minor or catastropic, the dealer will replace the defective part with another rubber hose unless you purchase the all metal upgrade for him to install.

    This will get to be (is) a real can of worms for the 2GR-FE (V-6) engines as folks drive them past the warranty mileage and experience oil line failures.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,986
    Sounds like if someone's really worried they could just slip a larger diameter rubber hose over the existing one, to eliminate the possibility of chafing. That's probably what I'd do if I owned this model. Then, if Toyota decides to replace the line for free, I'd take it in.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • cmontanocmontano Posts: 3
    It's funny that you would ask that question. The powertrain warranty is 5 years/60,000 miles my car has 61,800 so at the end of the day I called the corporate office and threw a fit, the dealership called me today and said they would fix it free of charge. Toyota needs to admit they made a crappy part and recall it.
  • Popped the hood on my 08 Touring today, and found that the VVTi line is all metal. My car was manufactured in April, 2008.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 230
    Your ideas are proven fixes, but have no practical application to this issue. You really need to look under the hood of an Avalon and realize that you cannot even see but about 1" of the subject rubber hose above a foam lined timing cover. Even touching it is very difficult. The line then snakes down under the engine block and the lower connection is barely visible when the vehicle is on an overhead rack. Adding a larger dia. hose for protection would be impossible, and even inspecting the existing line for "chafing" would require some disassembly. This is why the problem is almost impossible to diagnose until oil drips on the ground.
  • mhassanmhassan Posts: 1
    Couple of days ago the check engine with vsc and vscoff light come on my Toyota Avalon 2000 xls. Mileage: 143k. Observed little vibration(sometimes). Recently I did minor tuning & change the water pump due to overheating. I checked it to a local machanic, found three codes. P1130, P1133 & P1135. What are the meanings of these? Is it costly to repair? Should I go to dealer. You know they are very expensive. Please help me.

    Thanks
  • My 2006 Avalon dumped all its oil in the road due to a hole in the rubber segment of the VVTi line which is metal-rubber-metal. I've read a lot here about the all-metal part 15772-31030 which is a Lexus part that some have used in place of the metal-rubber part called for in the Avalon TSB EG064-05. The Toyota service manager said that a Toyota engineer told him that the rubber containing part is for flexibility on the Avalon and other models because these engines vibrate more than the Lexus which is built to be more stable. Does anyone know of a successful installation of the all-metal part in the Avalon and for what time duration? Both parts arrive at the dealer in a couple days and I need to make a decision. Thanks.
  • Hello, My 2006 with 45,000 miles did the same thing in July while on Vacation. I had it taken on a flat bed tow truck to local dealer in Arkansas. I told them to replace the rubber line with the metal and I would pay the extra cost. But when I went to get it the had replaced with the new fix. The service manager said which was a heavier rubber line. What makes me angry is that they are aware of the the problem but will not recall and fix, instead they wait until the line breaks or leaks, and or pump all of the oil out of them. Well if under warranty your ok,but if out of warranty you maybe paying for a engine rebuild. Back to your question the 2009 Avalons have the fix, a heavier rubber line. I would call Toyota and complain as I did why are they waiting until these lines leak before they fix them? :mad: .
  • Mylast, the metal line is used on RAV-4s that have the 2GR-FE V-6 engine, so I think your dealer is blowing smoke about the vibration issue. Toyota continued to use the rubber/metal line because they don't want to have a recall and the expense of replacing all the VVTi lines that are out there. I'm pretty sure that late 2008 Avalons and up came with the all metal lines.

    I ordered the 15772-31030 all metal line for my 2007 Avalon and the dealer replaced it in about a couple of hours. I saw no reason to continue to drive with a rubber/metal line that was subject to failure at any time. The bad part, as you experienced, is that the failure may dump all the engine oil while you are driving down the road. Toyota has yet to acknowledge that this failure mode might damage an engine.

    I think anyone driving a 2GR-FE V-6 engine would be foolish not to replace the rubber/metal VVTi line before it fails.
  • I have followed the advice of popsavalon and had the oil tube replaced at my cost ( 3 hrs labor and $352) Simply google "avalon oil leak" and all kinds of thingss pop up including a u tube of the leak with engine running. On a site called "Carcomplaints.com" there are 50 reports of this problem. Occuring anywhere from 27,000 to over 100,000 miles, it can happen at any time, anywhere. Be sure to request part #15772-31030, the all metal part. The dealers are fully aware of this problem and their technicans are trained to change out the part and are in fact getting more and more experience in doing so. Toyota still refuses to do a recall and there are I estimate a couple hundred thousand 2GR-FE engines in all kinds of Toyota vehicles that could have this serious leak. For your own peace of mind, change out this part.
  • bengeebengee Posts: 3
    Here is an article from our local paper.....wonder what to do if this runaway aspect woudl happen to the Avalon? I assume just turning off the car? ....thakns
    http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20091019/BUSINESS/910191027
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,986
    Yep, just shut the car off but don't pull the key out (that could lock the steering). You'll lose your power steering and after a few pumps, your power brakes (there is a reservoir for the vacuum) but you can safely guide the car to the side of the road with the hard steering and your car will in fact stop without power brakes--it will just require a lot of foot pressure. Not a great solution, but the safest one.

    Something everyone should in fact practice in an empty parking lot.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • My 2006 did the same thing. Fortunately it was in front of my house, and the dealer had it picked up and repaired with the metal line, about 6,000 miles ago, and it's OK so far.
  • bengeebengee Posts: 3
    Thanks to you both!!! Much appreciated..
  • Fast forward ten years: it appears that in the year 2020 it will be as embarrasing to drive a Camry or Avalon as it is to drive a 2010 Buick today. Looks like only Ford is getting it right since their repair record is exceeding Honda & Toyota (Honda Accord's $250 rear brake pad replacemnt every 15,000 miles problem is the number one issue on carcomplaints.com) and Ford is actually turning a billion dollar profit.

    It is almost as if Toyota is following the Oldsmobile road map towards self destruction. Toyota's treatment of this rubber versus metal oil line issue is abysmal. It is as if it wasn't bad enough that they initially coupled the space age fuel efficient 2GR-FE V6 jetlike engine to a bad transmission in the 07 model year Camry -causing Consumer Reports to withdraw it from the "recommended" list - that they went on a suicide mission to create a real scandal with the rubber oil line.

    The number of affected vehicles is over 1.5 to 2 million. Toyota just did a recall which they call a "Limited Service Bulletin" that applies only to 05 and 06 Avalons.and 06 Rav4's. It replaces one rubber hose with another. It states in pertinent part:

    "To: All Toyota Dealer Principals, Service Managers, Parts Managers
    Subject: Limited Service Campaign (LSC) – 90K
    2005 – 2006 Avalon and 2006 RAV4 Vehicles Equipped with the V6 (2GR-FE) Engine - VVT-I Oil Hose Replacement
    Toyota will initiate a Limited Service Campaign to replace the VVT-i oil hose in certain 2005 – 2006 model year Avalon and 2006 model year RAV4 vehicles with a 2GR-FE engine.

    This Limited Service Campaign will be available at no charge to the vehicle owners until March 31, 2013. All terms of the affected vehicle’s Toyota Basic Warranty will remain intact regardless of whether or not the customer takes advantage of the Limited Service Campaign.

    There are approximately 147,000 Avalon (2005 through 2006 model year), and 26,000 RAV4 (2006 model year) involved in the U.S.


    Since this applies all to NorthAmerican built 2GR-FE engines built pre-April 2008 and some Japan built prior to 2007, it's pretty easy to get past the million vehicle marker.

    Note: Not a single ES350 on the Internet has oil line failure because they are all built in Japan and have the metal pipe.

    I was going to wait a few months, but so I can quit obsessing about this, I am taking my 09 LE V6 in to Molle Toyota and pay for the $275 fix. Olathe Toyota told me it would void the warranty but Molle says "we always use the metal pipe." It takes two hours of labor because, unlike the Avalon, they have to remove the power steering pump to do the fix.

    My car is 19 months old. Pop the trunk and it still has new car smell and contains the following:

    1) First aid kit
    2) Premium Jumper Cables
    and
    3) a twelve pack.

    No - the 12pak is not beer. It's a twelve bottle case of Pennzoil 5w30 oil in case the oil line ruptures.

    Sorry for the rant. I didn't mind changing out mismatched Bridgestone 215/60/16 tires and wheels at 8500 miles for 17" 215/55/17 Avalon LTD wheels and Michelin tires at a cost of $1300 so I shouldn't mind doing this $275 fix.
  • I think it is absolutely appalling that we have to deal with Toyota dealers who make statements like "installing the metal VVTi line will void the warranty", and from a previous post ,"the metal line was made for Lexus, it's a more stable engine."

    As Paul3637 posts, Toyota is still dancing around a failure mode that could affect over a million 2GR-FE engines. Replacing one rubber hose with another is just a cheaper way out, and probably moves the next failure out 50000 miles or so, well past any warranty period.
  • ToneDeaf-Out of touch-oblivious-incompetent-downright corrupt.

    No, we are not talking about congress or wall street exectives paying billion dollar bonus - It's Toytota management at work. I have seen several posts that predict fatalities will eventually occur over the oil line issue when engine seizes and driver loses control or gets stranded in the mountains out of cell phone range - and I agree.

    It took the breaking news headline about the 4 fatalities in the now famous ES350 crash San Diego before the 3.4 million Toyota floormat recall scandal broke.

    I accidentally ran into this post when I looked up ES350 car complaints to confirm what the Lexus dealer told me: No ES350 oil line leaks ever because the Japan built Lexus always used the metal pipe..

    Look at this on the subject of floormats where a guy made a big deal about getting his $500 deductible back ........... and Toyota ignored him.

    http://www.carcomplaints.com/Lexus/ES350/2007/accessories-interior/throttle_gets- - _stuck_under_floor_mat.shtml

    2008
    Apr 14
    ES350 ES 3.2L V6
    Automatic transmission
    22,200 miles
    While my wife was backing out of our garage, the throttle got stuck under the floor mat. The car traveled across the street at full throttle and end up on a 5 foot snow bank. Other than a sore back and neck the next morning, she had no other injuries.
    She did not require medical help. She was extremely lucky that no other vehicle was coming by at the time nor was anyone walking by. Only the snow bank prevented her from hitting a garage that is directly across the street.
    I had received a recall notice from Lexus in the fall of 2007 addressing a floor mat to throttle problem. In discussing this with my Lexus dealer, I was told the recall did not apply to my vehicle because I did not have all weather floor mats. I did not give it another though until my wife had this accident.

    After the accident I stopped at the Lexus dealer to show them how easy it was for the throttle to get stuck under the floor mat.I had removed the floor mat and put it in the trunk. The Service Manager immediately noticed that the mat I had in hand should have been on the passenger side and not on the drivers side. This information stunned me because I had never removed the floor mats. This left two possibilities; either the car was delivered new to me that way or while in Myrtle Beach I had the car cleaned at a car wash and they switched the mats. In either case it doesn't matter.
    This accident should not have happened. Floor mats should not be interchangeable. I showed the Sheriff that investigated the accident as well as the tow truck driver and the insurance adjuster how easy it was for the throttle and none of them picked up on the fact that the mats had been reversed.

    The Lexus Owners Manual only talks about the retainer clips being properly attached and they were as indicated in the
    sheriff's report. The Owners Manual does not mention the potential danger of the accelerator becoming stuck if the floor mat are inadvertently installed on the wrong side. THE FLOOR MATS SHOULD BE DESIGNED SO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ATTACH THE FLOOR CLIPS TO THE MATS IF THEY ARE NOT INSTALLED ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
    I have written to Lexus in Torrance, California twice and included the Sheriffs report, Insurance Adjusters report and the repair cost from the body shop in an attempt to recover my $500 deductible. My insurance payed the remaining repair cost. But Lexus has not acknowledged ether of my registered letters.
    This may be my last Lexus if I don't get satisfaction or at least an acknowledgment of the problem from them.
  • Here's an update on what I did...I replaced the VVTi line with the standard part, not the all- metal part because the dealer said the all metal part would not be warranted on the Avalon. Why doesn't the dealer recall it? - because 75% of customers buy the extended warranty through 100K so they are covered until then and the dealer is willing to roll the dice on having to replace the engine. Anyone looking for a great looking, silver 2006 Avalon XLS with a new VTTi line covered through 100K? No dings, dents or scratches. BTW, also fixed on this Avalon were: Steering Column Noise TSB#ST002-06 and ECM Calibration Enhancement to Shifting Performance & Smoothness TSB#EG029-07. Ex.cond. except subject to losing all oil at unpredictable intervals. Make offer:)
  • Mylast, are you saying that your dealer said the metal line would void the warranty, or just that he would not install it for free under warranty?

    Most dealers have taken the position that they will not replace the VVTi line with all metal unless the customer pays for it,( "customer upgrade"). The Avalon warranty stays intact.

    If your dealer is saying that the metal line voids the warranty, I would find a new dealer. That establishment is being less than honest.
  • popsavalon is correct. The Toyota V6 Oil Line Scandal is discussed in the website ToyotaV6OilLineScandal at the following link:

    :http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/

    The metal line was originally a Lexus part and can safely be used without voiding the warranty.

    :
  • Paul3637, thanks for the link information. I think folks that are aware of this problem should work really hard to see that ALL Toyota V6 owners know about the site.

    It is really hard to understand all the horror stories being posted about this problem. It seems that almost no one is clean, from dealers all the way to Toyota Corporate.

    Hopefully this problem will continue to gain exposure, and Toyota will be forced, maybe by a class action lawsuit, to acknowledge and fix the problem permanently for their customers.
  • The new web site :http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/ should be visited by all 2005-2008 Avalon owners. It has most of the pertinent information related to the major VVTi oil line failures that are being experienced by owners of Toyota V6 2GR-FE engines.

    Worst case oil line failure can be sudden and catastrophic, resulting in loss of engine oil and almost certain engine damage if vehicle owners attempt further vehicle operation.

    The site also addresses failure responses by dealers and Toyota USA, which have been less that stellar.
  • Just in case everyone has forgotten, there are still roughly 1.5 million 2GR-FE V-6 engines out there with VVTi oil lines that can rupture with no warning and dump all the engine oil on the ground, or highway. Toyota USA has never officially acknowledged this problem and dealers have been wildly inconsistant in dealing with it.

    There is a proven fix for this problem, I'm not so sure we are there yet on the "unintended acceleration" issue..
  • Would somebody please explain to me how this has been a issue since 2008 with still no fix. I think it is computer related and they have not figured out a fix without having to replace the whole system at $600-800 and have just started to design a new brain to fix the problem they new they have had for several years just like the oil line. They denied it until 2009 and all they did was put a heavier rubber line on instead of the $168.00 fix for the metal line you could buy and have installed. :(
  • Thursday my wife filled the tank in our 03 Avalon and within 200 yards the car was dead. The engine turned over fine, just wouldn't fire. Had is towed to a reputable shop, they can start it running by priming it, but it quites and blows lots of smoke. They think there is diesel in the gas. Wife says there is no way she filled it with diesel. Have not heard of any other problems from this gas station.
    I'm at a loss. Told the shop to drain the tank and try some known good stuff.
    Any ideas?
  • finfin atlantaPosts: 589
    edited March 2010
    Here's some free thoughts to get you started... Diesel gas pump nozzles will not fit in gas openings...no diesel is in the tank. To be sure just siphon out a hose full and look at it, smell it or burn some carefully. Also, put some in a glass container and see if it separates. Anything "clear" is probably water.

    How do you "prime" a car with fuel injection? If you mean hook it up to an outside fuel feed source, ok... it should run fine if the problem is the fuel in the tank and all else is well... if not, the problem is with the engine or the electronics.

    Hope this helps, others may have more ideas..... ;)
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