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Toyota Avalon Engine Questions

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  • fscaranofscarano Posts: 44
    I have a 2000 Toyota Avalon. I can I tell if I have a sludge issue?
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,635
    To really determine if you have sludge you'd have to pop off a valve cover. "Reading" the oil filler cap isn't good enough, as there are sometimes "natural" deposits on that. Once you see real sludge, you'll never forget it.

    Here's MORE INFO

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  • mbs171mbs171 Posts: 4
    Mine is an '05 touring I purchased used. I found a small "spot" on my garage floor- Took it in and was told VVTi hose- out of warranty- will run you 420 to fix. I Laughed and got online and found parts for 91 shipped to me. Did the work myself- took my time and really cleaned the area in question. Good as new- no leaks. As for an improved hose- the number in the tsb has been updated to a different part number- the only difference I see is that the hose clamps look more substantial.(mine was leaking at the upper clamp)
    If you are mechanically inclined - do it yourself and save$$-
    All parts were available and shipped to me in one week.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    The real fix appears to be a Toyota all steel one piece line that is available as a direct replacement for the metal/rubber line currently being used. It is my understanding that for defective hoses on vehicles still in warrenty, Toyota will allow the steel line to be installed at no charge as an upgrade, if the customer will buy the steel line (Approx. $28.00). I saw one site where someone was offering to replace the metal line in his garage for $50 labor.

    It seems to me that the leaks and ruptures with the rubber/metal line will continue unless the rubber line is replaced at regular intervals, and no one seems to know what that mileage number is. Toyota seems content to just replace the rubber line at this point, and minimize how much engine damage can been done if a rupture happens while driving.

    I don't know how many 2GR-FE (V-6) engines are out there since 2005 with rubber hoses, but it's a bunch. I would expect this problem to continue to escalate for Toyota, maybe even to recall status.
  • cmontanocmontano Posts: 3
    I'm going through the same thing right now. The dealer tried to charge me about the same money.I was wondering who you went through for the part any help would be greatly appreciated.
  • Do current production, 2009 Avalons, have the metal line? If so, what was the build date for the change from rubber to metal? Anybody know?
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,635
    Only a problem in 2005 up to VIN # 4T1BK36B#5U037692
  • tfeltontfelton Posts: 80
    If I was crawling under the car (as I do when I change the oil) where would I see this part?

    Can I also assume from the VIN that the problem was only for 2005 models?
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    Mr. Shiftright, you are confusing the VIN Number information for the TSB on a specific 2005 leaking oil line fix, with the real problem.

    All Avalon 2GR-FE engines from 2005 at least to 2008 have been manufactured with the metal/rubber oil lines that are now failing. I am reasonably sure this applies to most other models (Camry, etc.) with V-6 engines.

    The oil line in question is easily viewed from the top of the engine compartment, on the passenger side by the shock mount tower. It is a shiny metal line about 3/8" in dia. that comes out of the top of the valve cover and turns 90 degrees straight down. After about 6", and just before it is covered by a plastic timing cover, there will be a rubber hose/hose clamp showing. This is the rubber portion of the two pc. line.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,635
    Oh so you are saying the line in the TSB is not the same VVT-1 line we are talking about? Let me look for other TSBs---seems if these were failing a lot we'd see something about it...so let me go dig some more.

    EDIT: Okay, didn't see any other TSBs for this issue on later model years in the All Data file or in NHTSA, or anything about Toyota authorizing a metal line change.

    Where did you see this info? I'd be interested.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    Don't want to make this issue more confusing than it already is. There is only one VVTi oil line on the 2GR-FE engine. The TSB you are talking about (EG064-05) is for the VVTi oil line "small /slow oil drip" on 2005 Avalons. It defines the leak as "where the rubber hose connects to the metal pipe". This is the only TSB I can find that addresses a VVTi oil line leak.

    Please note that this TSB does not change the two pc. metal/rubber line design, it only replaces a defective part. As I mentioned in my previous post, Toyota has continued with the metal/rubber line at least thru 2008. The major problem seems to be that there are now rubber hose ruptures occuring while driving down the road that allow loss of almost all engine oil very quickly.

    There are multiple posts about the oil line problems on this site and several other websites related to Toyota vehicles. Any search engine will take you to at least 3-4 sites if you just type in VVTi oil line leak/Toyota. There is no recent TSB from Toyota on the issue.

    There is a direct replacement all metal VVTi line (15772-31030) in the Toyota parts system. This information was posted on one of the Toyota owner sites because some owners are replacing the metal/rubber line at their cost BEFORE problems occur.
  • tfeltontfelton Posts: 80
    I looked at the part on my car (08 Avalon) and it's a very innocent looking part and it is the metal/rubber version. Armed with the all-metal replacement VVTi part number I will go to my Toyota service department on Monday and ask them about it. I've dealt with this particular dealer and service department for 11 years now and I feel confident I'll get a straight answer.
  • cmontanocmontano Posts: 3
    Thanks for the info. So I go back over to the dealership yesterday to pick up the car and they told me that the car is 1,800 miles over the 5yr/50,000 mile warranty and I would have to foot the bill and then the guy says if I had more history of taking the car into their dealership instead of somewhere else that they would have probably fix the car for free.I made the argument that they were just in that area last year when the timing cover was leaking oil, so I took the next logical step and called corporate next i will send my wife after them lol. I have owned Toyota's for 20 years and never have had the problems I have this one, it's a lemon off the line but yet I love it. Is that even possible? Sorry for the rant.
    Thanks, Carlos
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,635
    I did a search and the people dealing with their own cars are as confused as we are---LOL! Many of them refer to that TSB--it also seems like this happens on Camrys, or did to two people.

    Seems like it's a chafing issue, not anything wrong with the line per se, so maybe depending on how the line is routed at assembly, you might have a problem.

    Also some tech guy is saying the line is too small to cause a lose of oil pressure. I don't know, I haven't seen what it looks like.

    Maybe the best thing for all Avalon owners to do is check this line for chaffing.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    Thanks for the info and input. The "tech guy" who is saying the line is too small to cause a loss in oil pressure must know something about the VVTi system that I have missed. The line is a pressure line off the oil pump and is about 3/8" in dia. This is about the same size as an oil pan drain plug hole, which will drain all the oil out of an engine in a minute or less. The folks that post about these "on the road" failures typically say that by the time you smell oil or see oil smoke, there will be little or no oil showing on the dipstick.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,635
    The "tech" seemed to think the line was too small to cause an immediate loss of oil pressure.
  • smudgy2smudgy2 Posts: 5
    Thanks for showing where this part is located. It looks so benign. Could anyone take a photo of the "old" part and/or the "new" part?

    I thought i had an Avalon XL. Now I think I have a TB (time bomb) that could blow at any time. We cant' drive around constantly looking at the instrument cluster for a low oil pressure warning ( the annoying buzzer should be hooked up to that instrument).

    Few owners of the 2GR FE engine are aware of this possible problem. Toyota needs to step up to the plate, issue a recall for this design defect, and restore confidence.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,635
    Why don't you take a look at that line and let us know if you see a potential chaffing/rubbing problem? I'd be interested.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    To see a good picture of the VVTi oil lines, old and new, go to the following site:

    rav4world.com/forum and look for post #134 from RPM. He has posted a series of pictures about oil line replacement and picture #5 shows both lines side by side.

    I believe that the all metal oil line was incorporated into RAV4 engine production at some point, reasons unknown?????
  • smudgy2smudgy2 Posts: 5
    The part looked fine. No chafing (though a snug fit) and not the slighest trace of an oil leak. Wish this gave me more confidence.
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