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I also want to somehow find out & confirm exactly what year BCM's are interchangeable with my 2000 Grand Am. I can't find that out anywhere, darn it.....
I'd sure like to know what year BCM's (if any) are interchangeable in case I go to a junkyard looking for a BCM. I doubt the yard guy would know that...... so I'd really like to find that out somehow.
I took a photo of my BCM; I wanted to make sure I had accurate part & model numbers from it in case I end up going to a junkyard for a replacement. The main number is... 09360179; then the number 870179RB01291259.
That is the model BCM in my 2000 GT1. I would like to know if that particular one is interchangeable with a 2001, or 2002.... just in case the junkyard doesn't have a 2000 in the yard.. But I can't find that info anywhere....
When it gets a bit warmer here, I'll continue my troubleshooting some more. And if worst comes to worst, I'll simply put a piece of black electrician's tape over that illuminated security light and say the heck with it. The car runs like a champ; runs & starts fine... But it sure does bug me why that darn light is on, lol..
For the scenario you described to occur, ie having a flashing security light, the Passlock portion of your system has to have failed...most likely in the BCM. Either that or the DEI(or other brand) bypass module has failed and is sending a faulty signal to the BCM, which in turn causes the security light to begin blinking.
.
Here is all the text on my BCM
______________________________________
DELPHI AUTOMOTIVE SYSTEMS
Assembled in Mexico
Tested to comply
With FCC Standards X
This device complies with
RSS-210 of Industry Canada
Canada: 3432101848A
X130 22684971
*874971RA13470610*
______________________________________________
And I just figured out how to post a photo on this forum, so here is the label on the bottom of my Body Control Module...
Looks like our two BCMs are a different model. My vehicle is a 2002 Grand Am SE, 2.2L
Anyone else have this information about their BCM, we hope you will post it.
Dick B.
By any chance would you happen to know if having a illuminated security light (hidden & covered with black tape) will throw any trouble code and be a problem for the yearly car inspection? If there would be no trouble code, then I might even be best to just cover up that light and hope for the best...
I've been driving the car for a few months now with that light constantly on, but the car starts & runs fine.... As it is right now, that light is just a "cosmetic nuisance" right now, lol...
Oh boy oh boy... why did G.M. make this darn passlock thing so complicated ???!!!???
Check with your local library to see if they have AllData available on their library computers. Our local library has a huge number of databases available online to use on your computer at home, however AllData is available at the library terminals because of the fee structure AllData charges.
But I took my USB memory stick and floppy disk and went to the library, looked at what I wanted for another car for which Idon't have the factory service manual, and saved the web pages onto the USB memory. I saved some individual graphics as pictures. You also can print the pages for a fee at libraries.
Our county library shares with libraries in counties surrounding us. So check with your library and maybe even make a drive to a nearby larger library to access AllData.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A friend who still works for GM told me a few facts about the Passlock system and the "Security" light. It seems that in most cases where the SECURITY light is illuminated solid, but the car still runs. the only fix is replacing the BCM. Let me repeat that for the people who don't pay much attention...
When the SECURITY light is on and The vehicle still runs the most common cause of the problem is The Body Control Module
This probably explains Tommy01's problem.
Dick
Does anyone happen to know if any trouble codes are thrown / stored when a BCM acts up like this? My yearly state inspection doesn't actually come up till June, but I'd really like to know about whether or not codes are thrown....
So that's an update here.... The light is still on, but the car runs fine...
I had both messages on my 2002 Impala's BCM. To summarize, I had the security light come on while driving around Labor Day weekend and then three months later the dreaded no start condition with the blinking security light. The mechanic I took it to replaced the BCM, but I never got a good explanation as to why. It set me back $600 parts and labor. The BCM was a very old one(model #GMAB166) which a technical service bulletin said was susceptible...any BCM prior to GMAN169 does not have the hardware modification that prevents the BCM from throwing out a false-positive code. I wasn't pleased when I found out the BCM had been replaced, but at least I know the BCM shouldn't be the culprit in the future. My car has started every time I've tried in the past month, but since the problem was so intermittent before I don't know if I will ever feel truly comfortable.
One question for everyone who has a recent GM vehicle. I have noticed that about 1/3 of the time when I turn the ignition off, the security light flashes for the briefest of moments on the dashboard's message center. I fear that the key switch or key cylinder may be going bad and could cause a security/no start problem for me in the future. Anyway, does anyone ever notice the security light flashing for a brief instant when they turn the ignition off?
One other question, would the security light constantly illuminated be a cause for a car not to pass a state inspection? The reason I ask is that if the car ever fails to start for me I'm probably going to get somebody to cut the yellow wire for me(after first getting the car started at some point), but I'm reluctant to go this route if a constant security light illuminated would cause the car to fail a state inspection.
Danny in Yorktown, VA
I sure hope there is not any code(s) come June when my inspection comes up.... Of course I hope to somehow fix this problem by then though...
I don't believe I get that brief blink that you get; that's a new one to me... but I'll look closely next time I take the car out somewhere. I don't think I get it though....
If I cannot solve this come springtime, I might have to get a replacement BCM. But there again, there's no telling if that would solve this mess, and also there's a question if a BCM at a junkyard would even work. There's a website somewhere; gmpartsdirect.com (I think..) and you can buy GM parts there. But... you need the darn official GM part number to search out the info. For some reason my model number came back "nothing found" !!! This passlock purgatory stuff is giving me more gray hairs; just what I need !!!!
What I meant is I was wondering if the passlock problem can throw a certain code number that could pertain to OTHER possibilities other than the passlock itself. For example open ground fault, or some other situation that could be considered a safety issue.
If a trouble code pops up, it's all via computer, so to say... My bringing up "yeah, but it's only a passlock problem" would mean tiddly-winks to a computer. The tech guy has no leeway and cannot be swayed. The computer either passes you, or you fail. There is NO amount of any verbal explaining by me to the tech guy that would help; all meaningless.. It's a pass or fail, period.
Of course I'm hoping that I am worrying needlessly and no code is thrown for a passlock problem; I don't need the headaches of getting a rejection sticker and $$$$$ repairs that must be done quickly in order to get my inspection sticker. Hopefully when it gets a bit warmer I can see if my problem is in the area of the ignition; I haven't yet explored there. It might be worth me looking there because the Pontiac place did install a new cylinder for me last year... also cut me new keys too. It might be worth it to see if the mechanic maybe bumpped a wire loose. Probably a longshot, but I do want to check that area out...
I want to wait a bit for warmer weather; I have a bad spine and it kills me to have to lay on the floor and tinker around with the BCM and wiring. If my doctor saw me, I'd get a boot in the fanny and told I should know better....
Last October I made a copy of my key just in case, my aunt used it and the secury light got on, she turn off the car and turn the key around and started the car with no problems.
Since that my car had some starting problems, I chaged the ignition and the mechanic view for other problems about battery, etc. And was all right! :surprise:
Suddenly the starting problems came back! About two weeks ago I drove to my work fine, when I got off the car wouldn't start. You can imagine how I felt, after 45 minutes of traying and no other ideas, I put my car in Neutral and started with no problem. I drop my car to the mechanic and they didn't found nothing because the car started with no problems! (I left my car with them almost 5 days and nothing). :S
So last Saturday was happy on my day off and what I got? Yes starting problems again! The first time I replay using the same method on Neutral, I stopped in my second place and had the same problem, and did it again on the third one! So I realize that it was the perfect time to drop it with the mechanic so they can experience the same problem and find out what is wrong with my car, but no success, it's Monday now and they haven't got any starting problems at all.
Any ideas? :confuse: Help needed! :sick:
While I'm here, I would like to thank tommy01 for keeping us up to date on how his "constant on" security light problem is going. This is all helpful information.
Also, I guess I would like to re-state that the resistor fix will cure Only one of the many possible causes of the passlock (security light)problems. Now, it's beginning to look like a constant ON security light is not really much of a worry. Looks like as long as the car keeps running, you can ignore the constant security light. I would like to know if there are any instances out there that contradicts that statement.???
Dick
Make sure they check:
1. The Ignition cylinder
2. The BCM (or whatever they call it on a truck)
3. The wiring between the BCM and the ignition cylinder
4. The PCM
If their FIX does not involve one of those four items, i would suspect they didn't actually fix it, and don't accept that they couldn't duplicate the problem. If they do that, take it back in over and over again until they actually do something.
Dick
The hall effect sensor is the most common repair, but many don't want ot pay for it so they use one of the workarounds.
I can't find that in my 2002 Grand Am Manual. How many miles on your 1999 Grand Am? I would consider replacing the alternator and brakes normal wear and tear, and it's not unusual for a water pump to go out after 100k miles, especially if you live in a warm climate.
The work-around using a resistor in place of the hall sensor is the best solution for the 10 minute wait problem. If your light is on constantly, but your car runs, ignore it. After all, you don't even get any kind of security system in the cheap japanese cars.
1. Security light on steady indicates that the passlock system is not provinding the protection it was designed to perform in our cars. The resistor fix or the toggle switch installation is not applicable for this condition. Possible cause is a bad BCM.
2. Blinking security light means passlock has detected an unauthorized attempt or false indication of an unauthorized attempt to start the car (bad key, theft attempt, bad key cylinder, etc). Cutting the yellow wire while car is running and installing a toggle will bypass the passlock system. If the battery dies close the switch and do a 10 minute wait, open the switch after car starts and be on your way. Security light will remain on at all times.
3. Doing the resistor installation if the security light is blinking will basically do the same as the toggle installation but the security light will not be lit.
That's a pretty good summary, and I don't see anything missing other than extraordinary things, like broken wire between Ignition switch and BCM, Corroded ground connections (unlikely but possible), loss of data link between BCM and PCM.
Your list will probably cover more than 99% of the passlock problems.
Let me just advise everyone that a shop manual is a necessity when troubleshooting your vehicle. There are also online subscriptions to manuals mentioned earlier in this thread that are less expensive than a printed manual, so there is no excuse to not have one for your car. They will save you $$$$.
Dick.
and it just quit. it was a dangerous situation but i got it off the road .ONLY three
people blew thier horns and flipped me the bird. the security light was solid.
i had it towed home and have been screwing with it ever since. i put a used lock
cylinder in and the security light was flashing. i did the 12 min. proceedure and the light went off but still no start. i then took the original lock to the locksmith and had it repaired and had two new keys made and put it back in. the light was flashing so i did the 12 minute proceedure again. NO START . the fuel pump sounds like it is working. there is no security light and my scanner is not showing any codes.
please help if you fine people have any other ideas. this forum is great, THANKS
markjr54
By all means, take your vehicle to the dealer and insist that they make the repairs under the extended warranty. This is NOT something that they should be able to blame on normal wear and tear, and so your extended warranty should cover it. My guess is that your problem lies in the ignition cylinder, and that replacing the cylinder should cure the problem.
When you bring your vehicle in, bring along a written description, just as you have described it here on the forum, and MAKE SURE they write it out on the service request. This is so you have documentation that you had this problem during the extended warranty period, so if they don't fix it, you can bring it back later... even after the warranty period is over.... and demand that they take another look.
Good luck. You may have to argue with them to get them to write out your trouble report in full, but be persistent, and let us know the results.
Dick
so, i got a 2002 grand am gt. the first time it wouldnt start it took about 2.5 hours to reset the system then it started right up several times. next day off to work i went...at lunch i drove to get food, again no problems...went to leave work after my shift and of course does'nt start...tried the unhook the battery thing, the shift to on posittion thing, 30 min passed ,2 hrs passed, 4 hours, i'm kinda heated...i've only had this car 4 days now, still owe 10g's on it...go home... have my neighbor take me back to it a couple hours later, and it started up like its brand new, i dont get it.
the next day i was gonna go buy the 2.2k resister the do the mod under the glove box...car started right up in the morning, got about 5 blocks down the road and the car stalls out, like the security just kicked in...installed the resister under the glove box right outside the BCM...tried the 10 min wait to reset the system to the new value of the resister, still didnt start...today i'm having it toed to the lot where i bought it..dude said he would fix it for me but after reading all the different posts the past couple days i wanna cut that freakin wire as soon as i get it back and put the toggle switch in...i figure they will just get it started and tell me they fixed it anyway, i'll end up having to deal with this "issue" in the future, so ill just take care of it anyway, sooner than later. i.e "while i can acually get it started... my security light has never blinked in the ON position, it was allways illuminated, not blinking in the on position. it has to be something with the engine not getting fuel. everything else checks out, not the battery, alternator is fine , the chambers are getting a spark, just no fuel to lite em up. gotta be the passlock II system. i dont want the automatic start, i just want it to start, i could care less about a light allways on. this sucks soo bad, i know its a 2002 but its the nicest car i've ever had and the only one my wife has ever liked..then this, i've spent more time trying to fix it and sitting in it than i have driving it...i'm haglad that this forum is hear and i found it...thanks to you all for posting , much respect
switch , so i put it in and the security looked as if it was working correctly after
doing the relearn. but again no start and nothing at the fp. i,m thinking the bcm is about the only thing left. anybody know if this car needs to be reprogrammed if another bcm is put in (along with everything else) and it still does not start. fuses are good. THANKS
markjr54 2000 ga se 3.4
As far as you not getting voltage at the fuel pump, I think there is one other thing to be considered besides the BCM. If I recall from all the threads I've read about the passlock security issue, and I've read easily over 1000 different messages, I believe the BCM sends a signal to the PCM(powertrain control module) which in turn allows voltage to pass to the fuel pump. Can anyone verify/second this sequence? IIRC, the PCM is located inside the engine compartment while the BCM is located under the dash. As others have mentioned corrosion in the BCM, PCM, fuse blades, and just about any connection in the wiring harnesses can create havoc with the Passlock system.
This is just a theory, and possibly wishful thinking on my part, but I think the newer BCMs and the newer programming for them have done away with a great deal of the security/Passlock issues on GM products. I'm thinking the engineers have allowed for greater variations in the resistance reading of the key to compensate for variances due to wear and tear in the ignition switch/cylinder. I don't believe GM has sent out any troubleshooting/maintenance bulletins on vehicles after 2005...I may be wrong on that. In fact I'm trying to recall if GM has ever had a Passlock issue with any of their Buick models.
thanks for the help. i bought used bcm on ebay with the same numbers as my original one. maybe it will come by friday. i'll check the pcm connectors . could you tell me if your security,oil, and battery lights are on when your switch is turned to acc. i don't know because i never used acc. i also wonder why the security light is not on and there are no codes.?? the chevy dealer here says they don't THINK
a 2000 needs programming .