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MINI Cooper Clutch & Transmission Questions

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Comments

  • russhunterrusshunter Member Posts: 3
    Yea. I got nowhere with their 'customer relations' people and was not allowed to contact anyone higher in the company so I have given up on the car, Mini's and other BMW Group product. Transmissions should be built to last, particularly when they cost so much to fix. It's pretty hard to stomach that when you were told you were buying a quality product.

    Am now resigned to being a Mini and BMW hater for life. The strangest part of the experience is that the company is not concerned about this. It is going to cost them far more over time in lost business than it would have cost to keep us happy. If this attitude is widespread they have a serious problem. I wouldn't buy any shares in BWM Group...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2011
    Just FYI, the engine head has nothing to do with the transmission. It's a part of the engine, and if it "fried" as you stated, then you ran the car in an overheated condition... You cooked the engine, which goes a long way to explaining why your clutch and transmission failed.

    NO warranty would cover such an event, regardless of manufacturer. It would, and is, considered driver abuse, regardless of manufacturer.

    Seriously, after such a length of time, I would have moved on. IMO, life is just too short...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Well, as you said, if it was a widespread problem, it would be serious.

    Yet, BMW sold 242,000 MINIs in 2010.

    And, it may indeed be a problem. If it is, I haven't seen anything to indicate its a widespread one.

    Every manufacturer has dissatisfied customers, and BMW is no different.

    It sucks for you, and I sincerely mean that... Unfortunately, someone always winds up with a lemon. I have had my share, so I feel your pain.

    It's just a car. It was a bad experience. When I have had those, I learned what I could from it and simply moved on...

    To expect a manufacturer to repair a vehicle so far out of warranty in both miles and years is simply unrealistic, IMO. Do you think GM or Ford would cover it? Toyota? Lexus?
  • ihatemyminiihatemymini Member Posts: 13
    edited December 2011
    I didn't fry anything. I am well aware that the engine problem and transmission are two separate issues. However they happened at the same time. If you look back on this thread you will see that I sat for hours in 96 degree heat behind a fatal accident on I75. My heat gauge did not show the car overheating. There was no way to get off the interstate. In addition, there were thousands of other cars stuck the same way and none of them were melted down at the side of the road. Just my Mini. I have been told that this happened because of parts made of cheap alloys that are susceptible to melting when exposed to heat. I will be having an engineering firm analyze these parts to disprove or prove this. At any rate, none of this was the result of "bad driving skills".

    I can't move on. The car has been at the dealer for a month now. They haven't fixed it either. Until I get rid of this car I cannot move on. I still owe on this piece of junk.

    Yes, when there us a well-documented problem with a car I do think the compay should fix it.

    I've learned all right though. Never, ever buy a BMW product. I have been driving back and forth to Atlanta from Rochester for years. I have sat in the heat behind bad accidents in many cars in the heat for long periods of time. The tow truck guys we met in Atlanta say that BMW keeps them in business. The repair shop folks concur. They fix the exact same things on these cars over, and over and over. When asked they strongly recommend their customers NOT buy a BMW product.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Frankly, after going back and reading your postings, I'm a bit confused.

    You started out by stating you had transmission issues, and that it was a 2007 S model with 50K miles. Did a certified Mini shop do the repairs? Didn't your car come with a 4 year 50K drivetrain warranty?

    Then, you say later that the car has been out of service for much longer than a year (did you write 17 months?) and somewhere along the way evolved into engine problems as well.

    A better detailed timeline would help us get a better grasp on your situation.

    However, for the record, just because you had a car problem at that time and no one else did is irrelevant... Just as you having a flat tire and no one else having one in no way would, in itself, indicate a faulty tire.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    "I'll wave to you from my Nissan..."

    How's this for irony?

    I just got off the phone from the local Nissan dealer, where I have my daughter's 2009 Versa (49,000 miles). It has developed a "clacking/thumping noise" that is speed related.

    The service manager said the transmission is shot (bad internal bearing), and Nissan doesn't allow the dealers to rebuild their CVT transmissions (sound familiar?)

    So, it's a 1 week wait for a new unit to be delivered and installed. Nissan has OKed the swap-out, so it should be good to go.

    Fortunately, I have another vehicle for her to use during this week of her discontent.

    As I said earlier, every manufacturer makes a flub every now and then...
  • russhunterrusshunter Member Posts: 3
    I meant if their poor attitude regarding keeping customers is widespread the company will eventually go down.

    I know the car is old but the transmission is still obviously rubbish compared to industry standards. I would have been happy if they met me halfway with costs perhaps.

    Mitsubishi offer 10 yrs or 100,000ks on drivetrain so they would have covered it under warranty. I seriously doubt I would have had a failed transmission if I was driving a GM, Ford or Toyota. Not sure about Lexus.

    Will just never go near a Mini or BMW again is the endgame of my story.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2011
    I know the car is old but the transmission is still obviously rubbish compared to industry standards. I would have been happy if they met me halfway with costs perhaps.

    Mitsubishi offer 10 yrs or 100,000ks on drivetrain so they would have covered it under warranty. I seriously doubt I would have had a failed transmission if I was driving a GM, Ford or Toyota. Not sure about Lexus.


    I understand completely. But, Mitsubishi isn't really burning up the market in car sales... is it?

    I, too, would have expectations that, even thought the product warranty was for 4 years/50K miles, the expectation for a much longer life span.

    You've stumbled over the dual meaning of a warranty: Yes, it gives protection to the consumer, but it also limits the liability of the manufacturer. After all, if there was no warranty, you might be able to convince a arbiter/judge that its a reasonable expectation for a car to last longer than 8 years/100K miles, but its much more difficult when the car company can say "You knew the warranty and understood the limits of our liability" before you purchased the product.

    Its the "dirty little secret" in the warranty "business".

    I currently have a Nissan Versa (09/49K miles) which, at this very time, is having a new CVT transmission installed to replace the defective one now in the car. The original warranty when I purchased the car was 60K miles, but Nissan extended CVT warranties to 10 year/120K miles because there were some concerns in the market about the reliability of CVT's.

    Having stated that, I was the first one to post (as far as I know) on the Nissan Versa section about CVT failures/replacements. At least, there was no thread about CVT's in the Versa section, and this is at least the 5th year for
    the model.

    Having said that, I don't think there are any issues "at large" with Nissan CVT's, even with my problems. Sometimes, your number comes up and you "win" the broken car lotto.

    But, as I said, I am sympathetic to your problem and resultant attitude.
  • ihatemyminiihatemymini Member Posts: 13
    My point is that I do not believe the car should have melted down, even giving the heat and lengthy stop and go. The car should have been able to handle it. If the conditions were so extreme that it caused this, then my car would not have been the only one to meltvdown as there were literally thousands of cars exposed to the exact same conditions. The car has never run since the meltdown.

    17 months. Four repair shops including the dealer I bought it from where it has now been for six weeks No fix. $6000.00 in repairs. $875.00 in towing charges. $6000.00 in payments for a car I have no use of. $1000.00 to insure a car I don't have.

    Somebody described Mini Coopers to me as "scrap metal". That pretty much says it.
  • ihatemyminiihatemymini Member Posts: 13
    Overall, you can believe I am somehow responsible for my Mini melting down if you want. I am confident that I treated my car well and that the car is defective for the reasons the mechanics have given me.

    Even if you do not think BMW has a quality control problem I would still recommend you not buy one of these if you travel at all. The fact is that the car cannot be fixed by anybody but the dealer and if your car drops dead where there is no dealer you are just screwed. The corporate folks at BMW tell me that their mechanics are given special training to repair these cars that normal repair shops do not have. That's just fine if there is a dealer around but if it breaks down like mine did where the closest dealer is hundreds of miles away you will find yourself in a very bad situation. No car should be this hard to fix. Even a shop that bills themselves as a Mini Specialty shop could not fix this car.

    It's been at the dealer now for six weeks.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    My point is that I do not believe the car should have melted down, even giving the heat and lengthy stop and go. The car should have been able to handle it. If the conditions were so extreme that it caused this, then my car would not have been the only one to meltvdown as there were literally thousands of cars exposed to the exact same conditions. The car has never run since the meltdown.

    17 months. Four repair shops including the dealer I bought it from where it has now been for six weeks No fix. $6000.00 in repairs. $875.00 in towing charges. $6000.00 in payments for a car I have no use of. $1000.00 to insure a car I don't have.

    Somebody described Mini Coopers to me as "scrap metal". That pretty much says it.


    The problem I have with your continued responses is that you seem to be purposely evasive in providing specifics...

    According to what I HAVE been able to gleen from your postings, the malfunction(s) occurred well within the 4 year time frame provided by MINI, as well as the 50K mile limit.

    You may well indeed have a legitimate issue with MINI, but if you have been as evasive in providing them that facts of the event as you have been on this forum, IMO, its no surprise you are still without wheels. Four repair shops? Which one(s) were certified MINI dealers? If you took the car to a non-MINI dealer before you had it examined by a certified dealer, its no surprise you have gooten a cold shoulder from MINI. Warranty claim procedures are CLEARLY spelled out in the owner's manual.

    As far as being at the MINI dealer for 6 weeks, you haven't told the complete story. Any qualified dealer could assemble a complete car in that time, so its pretty clear the dealer is waiting on something from you. What that is, I don't know.

    I am not your enemy here. I am just attempting to determine if you have a legitimate gripe, or whether you are just venting. Either way, I personally don't care.

    Fortunately, most readers will be able to see through the apparent subterfuge you have created here, whether intentional or not, and give your comments a fair evaluation.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2011
    The fact is that the car cannot be fixed by anybody but the dealer and if your car drops dead where there is no dealer you are just screwed. The corporate folks at BMW tell me that their mechanics are given special training to repair these cars that normal repair shops do not have.

    OK, that's a fair statement. And, for the most part, I agree that the lack of dealers can, and probably do, cause some owners consternation.

    But, its should not be a surprise that 1: A manufacturer gives its repair personnel special training (indeed, I would hope that to be the case!), and 2: The dealer network and placement is no "well-kept" secret. Its public knowledge. However, there are independent MINI service shops out there, and as in all modern cars, there are some specialty tools (some VERY EXPENSIVE) that they need to provide full service. Its a fact of modern cars these days.

    Take a Nissan with a CVT to a Ford, Toyota or GM dealer and see what they tell you about servicing a defective CVT transmission. They will only do a full-unit replacement.

    I would bever buy a BMW or MINI if I lived in the Yukon Territory for use as a daily driver. Then again, if I lived in an urban environment, it would cause me only a little bit of concern. That's a personal choice every buyer of a car has to make.

    But it seems a bit unreasonable to curse the manufacturer of a product for lack of service centers, especially when that info can be easily found before making the purchase.

    EVERY car is going to need servicing at some point.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    My 2007 S melted down on I75 in Lexington.

    MINI has dealers in Louisville and Cincinatti.

    While that isn't 5 minutes away from Lexington, its not 1000 miles, either.

    You didn't take the car to a MINI dealer after it failed, did you?
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    17 months. Four repair shops including the dealer I bought it from where it has now been for six weeks No fix. $6000.00 in repairs. $875.00 in towing charges. $6000.00 in payments for a car I have no use of. $1000.00 to insure a car I don't have.

    You know what the oddest thing is here in your case?

    Even though your car was well within the 48 month warranty time frame,
    and, according to your mileage claim, at the upper end of the mileage allowance under warranty... you never had the car examined by an official MINI dealer until 6 weeks ago... well after the warranty period ended.

    Regardless the cause of the problem (whether or not you knowingly ran the car over temp or not), you still had a chance to have repairs made under warranty. There are 2 MINI dealers withing approx. 100 miles of Lexington, and even if you had to pay the transport fee (which MINI may have also picked up under warranty coverage), it wouldn't have been that much money.

    Yet, you bash MINI as if they had intentionally tried to screw you.

    Even the best engineered automobile will suffer the occasional breakdown... sometimes things just happen.

    I certainly understand being unhappy with a vehicle that does let you down, but why you took the road you did, and blame MINI for all your woes is puzzling, to say the least.

    You are now thousands of $$$ in the hole, have been without your car for well over a year, and have no clear prospect of ever getting it back into running order.

    Clearly, there's something wrong with this picture!
  • ihatemyminiihatemymini Member Posts: 13
    edited January 2012
    Well my car is finally being fixed. It has been at a dealer for six weeks. The mechanics who have worked on the car met with the service manager and they have agreed to fix the car. They have had it now for six weeks. I should finally get it back in 7-10 business days.

    Our mechanic asked us to let him handle this with the dealer and clearly that was a good choice. He can prove everything he has said. They might have argued with me but they didn't argue with him.

    The car is in the hands of the dealer. Let's see what they do with it.

    Eighteen months since that car melted down. Never gonna buy another car that cannot be fixed in any city in the USA.
  • ihatemyminiihatemymini Member Posts: 13
    edited January 2012
    Oh I did talk to Mini Cooper corporate about this problem and I got nowhere. What they wanted to do to resolve this was to give me $1000 towards a new one and just trade it in. Huh? Can't say I would EVER buy a Mini again.

    As far as my "bashing Mini" - you bet I did! This should never have happened! The fact that nobody but a dealer can fix this car is a significant issue that prospective buyers should be well aware of, particularly people who spend a lot of time traveling out of town. If you buy this car you risk having a problem finding yourself on the side of the road where there is no dealer. The third shop this car was in is a Mini specialty shop - that is all they do and they could not fix it. The issue is more about the difficulty getting the car fixed when you are out of town. Had I done as you suggested I would have wound up in a city I didn't know, dealing with acdealer I didn't know and sitting in a hotel waiting for it to be fixed. Since the dealer has had it for six weeks I might have quite a wait!

    It isceasy in hindsight to tell somebody what they should have done. Perhaps I would have been better off if I had had it towed directly to a dealer. Maybe not. I believe everything I did, knowing only what I knew at the time, was perfectly reasonable. I didn't have your benefit of knowing what was going to happen.

    You say Mini would have towed it or covered the towing problems. You know that because ..... I talked to corporate. They were unwilling to do anything but pay half the cost of the parts.

    As for having somebody else fix the car I had my reasons. I had bought my car from that dealer and never even got it off the lot. The car had an immediate issue and it took two weeks to get it fixed. Nobody would return my calls. I did not want to deal with them again. The mechanic we took the car to is a certified BMW mechanic. The car presented as a transmission problem and he did not expect the problems he ran in to. It was not until the transmission was repaired that the engine problems were discovered.

    Things are not always as simple as you might think. There was a whole bunch of things that happened here, but I can't write the whole story.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Yes, you CAN write the whole story, but you chose to write only one side of it.

    And, what you wrote was easily shot full of holes.

    It's unfortunate that you were without your car for such a long time, but you are the primary reason you had to wait. There are plenty of Mini dealers in the US well qualified to repair Mini vehicles.

    IMO...While I'm happy for you that you are finally going to get some satisfaction in this case, I would say BMW And Mini are probably better off if you keep your word and never cross their doorways again.
  • raybe13raybe13 Member Posts: 3
    Hello,

    Does anyone know if there is a recall on the mini cooper automatic transmission or a class action law suit that is going on I can sign up for?
    I have a 2005 mini cooper s and once the car worms up the the transmission sounds like it slips and then slams into gear. From what I read on forums, this sound like a bad transmission and BMW won't work on their transmission, only replace the entire unit and it will cost between $9,000-$10,000.
    If there is a software fix or something I didn't hear about I would love to. Please reply.
  • clubladyclublady Member Posts: 1
    edited January 2012
    I have a 2009 Mini Clubman S which I bought in Germany (September 2009) 2 years and 5 months ago, and a mileage of 21000 kms. Germany warranty is 2 years and maintenance schedule is every 2 years. I did not extend the warranty because I am about to leave for another job assignment. I brought the Mini for its maintenance July 2011, the engine blew up in November 2011. Even the warranty is over, I manage to fight that BMW shoulder the expenses. In the middle of its work order, dealer called me and told me that transmission needs to be replaced because of overheating which expenses will come from my pocket because BMW Germany will not shoulder the expenses. They told me that it is because of my driving technique. I grew up driving a manual transmission and my mustang 81 lasted for 15 years without any transmission problem.

    During those 2 years, I have added oil twice to maintain its normal level.

    It runs great because I have tested the car with a speed of 140 MPH, stable and traction is good but I think, that is the price of it.
  • raybe13raybe13 Member Posts: 3
    That is terrible.
    My engine also blew up in my 2005 Mini cooper S Automatic. I just had the valves, Valve rods, engine coil, spark plugs, belt pulley, timing belt, cam sensor, etc replaced. The car is so stiff that the aluminum air conditioner tubes rubbed together so much that they rubbed a hole in both the upper and lower aluminum AC hoses and I had to get them replaced. I have replaced the windshield 2 times. I just had the engine rebuilt then the transmission started changing gears really hard. After the engine worms up it sounds like the transmission is slipping for a second, then it catches and slams into gear. It sounds like its a transmission timing issue. Like the transmission is not changing gears at the right time. Anyone know what the fix for this is? Is there a software update that can fix this or do I have to pay $9000-$10,000 to have the transmission replaced? I will have to just get rid of the car if I have to replace the transmission. I'm not going to put another transmission in the Mini Cooper if they haven't figured out how to fix the transmission problems yet. Who's to say it won't just happen again?

    Any Ideas? Is there a software update to fix this, or is there any way to get BMW to replace the transmission under warranty or recall?

    Anyone have the web page to download the latest software update for 2005 mini cooper S hatchback Automatic?

    HELP!
  • raybe13raybe13 Member Posts: 3
    Can someone please send me the URL/web page to where to find the Mini Cooper Recalls and service bulletins for a 2005 mini cooper s automatic? My transmission is changing gears really hard but it is out of warranty. I read that a lot of people were experiencing the same problem, so I was wondering if there was a recall or a free fix for the known issue.

    Thank you

    RB
    [email protected]
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    If you had the timing belt replaced, then you don't have a Mini engine.

    Mini engines use timing chains.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    "The corporate folks at BMW tell me that their mechanics are given special training to repair these cars that normal repair shops do not have."

    A half-truth, at best. Any qualified mechanic from an independent shop can get MINI training and tools. I take my MINI to an independent shop and they perform all kinds of complex repairs on MINIs.
  • 32flavors32flavors Member Posts: 1
    The clutch in my 2005 Mini went out suddenly after less than 2K miles. The dealsheip replaced it after I raised hell. Now, the clutch in my 2007 Mini is going out....after only 55K miles! I've driven standard transmissions my entire life & never experienced this. I called Mini...sure enough, not covered unless it's "normal wear & tear," which they can't evaluate unless I put down $2K for them to tear down the engine to look at it....if they see any signs of damage that indicates beyond normal wear & tear, then I'd have to shell out the money for the repair, too. A clutch going out after only 55K miles is bound to show signs of defect! So, I'm taking it to a trusted mechanic and shelling out the $1100 to have them replace the clutch, since my car is worth over $15K. But as long as I live in a hilly community, I won't get another Mini! I love my Mini, but not enough to have to shell out for a new clutch ever few thousand miles!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Make sure you replace EVERYTHING in there--including the flywheel, the rear main engine seal, the release bearing, clutch disc, pressure plate, new flywheel bolts, new pressure plate bolts, transmission main shaft seal, clutch pivot pin, throw-out bearing guide sleeve, new slave cylinder.

    This is a big and expensive job, and you don't want to go in there again. Mini flywheels are prone to glazing and then howling (the dreaded "chewbacca sound") So if you haven't had the flywheel ever replaced, now's the time.
  • psibagmanpsibagman Member Posts: 1
    We've brought in my wife's 2009 Mini Clubman S into our local Mini dealer for the past year complaining about the same sound coming from what we thought was the clutch. For a year they kept sending it back stating that they heard nothing. Now, that the car is out of the 3 year bumper to bumper warranty, by about a month, they've managed to locate the problem. They also want $3,000.00 to fix it. Contacted Mini corporate but they were no help. When I explained that not only has this been going on for a year - documented- that it also seems to be an issue with many owners nationwide. And that like my dealer, we're being told that it's due to abusive driving. Funny how that word spreads from dealers coast to coast. My wife has been driving cars with clutches for 29 years. She is not an abusive driver. There definately is a problem. Suggestions?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Do you have any repair orders written during the warranty period that make a statement on them about your complaint?
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited May 2012
    I thought MINI had a 3 year/36 K bumper to bumper warranty and a 4 year/50K drivetrain warranty.

    Has that changed? I know my wife's 2005 Mini has that...

    Update: no change, per the Mini web-site.
  • soletrainsoletrain Member Posts: 3
    I was shocked when my clutch failed on my 2009 Clubman at 8k miles - I have driven manual transmissions for years and never had any problems with my other cars (Saab, Acura, Jeep and Honda). This is a second vehicle so it isn't driven daily as were the other vehicles. Not really looking for any response, but was disheartened to see clutch failure at low mileage isn't an uncommon experience.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Is Your Mini a base or "S" model?
  • soletrainsoletrain Member Posts: 3
    S model
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited May 2012
    I asked the model because, just using a cursory observation here, most clutch complaints on this forum seem to be the "S" designations of the various Mini models.

    IIRC, the S models use a different "dual mass" flywheel, along with a different clutch disc, so I wonder if it is the difference in materials, the increased HP or a difference in driving characteristics that skews failures to the S model lineup.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited May 2012
    For those curious about the details of a dual mass flywheel/clutch setup, such as that used in Mini "S" models...

    http://moodle.student.cnwl.ac.uk/moodledata_shared/cdx%20etextbook/dswmedia/tran- - - s/clutchMan/clutches/dualmassflywheels.html

    And...

    http://www.valeoservice.com/data/master/webfile/19835431504AD33F8566078.pdf?rnd=- - 102

    Here is a great YouTube video on how a dual mass flywheel is constructed and how it functions....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    From what I've been reading the last few days, it seems that many manufacturers are having problems with dual mass flywheel equipped autos.

    I suspect driving habits contribute considerably to failures as well.

    When I was taught how to drive a manual 45 years ago, the instructions were to keep engine revolutions low and ease out on the clutch pedal so as to minimize clutch disk wear.

    That same method of driving is probably murder on a dual mass flywheel setup, because the lower revolutions would seem to cause a "jack hammer" effect to the moving parts in the flywheel assembly. It seems that releasing the clutch pedal with a higher rpm would actually even out the stress on the flywheel to a more constant pressure, even though it would increase wear on the clutch disk itself.

    That may indeed explain why some here make the statement "I have been driving a manual for XX years and never had a clutch issue". I would guess this is the first dual mass clutch equipped vehicle for these folks.

    If my analysis is correct, seems that Mini has done a poor job of explaining the situation to owners... But, evidently, so have other manufacturers.
  • soletrainsoletrain Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the information - I will definitely follow up with one of the dealers in my area.
  • ki98yamaki98yama Member Posts: 1
    I am currently under negotiations if this is the correct term for a 2012 Mini countryman with 5500 miles, purchase in November that left me on the road after transmission stuck and cluth went off. They are trying to accuse me of negligent driving but there is no other evidence whatsoever of wrong driving or damages. They told me this case was going to be analyzed by the Mini board and await if I finally have to pay for repair. Hilarious!
    I would like to know if someone else had the same issue and what possible solutions or forum could be consulted. I am trying to download similar cases that can proof possible manufacturer origins. Thank you
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    If you go back through this thread you will find several cases that are similar to yours. The results vary to some degree, but I would hazard to guess that few owners walked away totally satisfied.

    BTW, I'm guessing you own an 'S' model... Is that correct?

    If you go back a few posts you will find an earlier posting by me containing links explaining the dual mass flywheel configuration, as well as failures. This isn't a predicament limited to Mini.

    Tat information may be useful to you in your discussions with your Mini dealer.... Or, maybe not.

    Anyway, I wish you good luck in getting a satisfactory resolution.
  • minicarbigprobminicarbigprob Member Posts: 1
    My experiance with Mini El Paso on my 2011 Mini Cooper S convertible is as follows in my letter to the General Sales Manager
    Victor ,

    Very Disappointed is actually an understatement. I have a 2011 Mini Cooper S that I paid a pretty penny for thinking I was paying for a quality vehicle with a company that stands behind their product & warranty however, I am beginning to wonder. Your dealership states : "Our commitment to customer service is second to none. We offer one of the most comprehensive parts and service departments in the automotive industry.” Correct? Well on August 11th, 2012 I was driving to work ( about 35 miles south of Ft. Stockton Texas on hwy 285 in the middle of NO Where when suddenly my car will not shift into gears … I turned the vehicle off & went to restart the vehicle & nothing. Its 108 degrees outside & I am stranded in the middle of NO where. I am just lucky my cell phone worked I called roadside assistance & they were very apologetic & nice & said they would send someone to come get me & water if I needed. The only problem was they were coming from EL Paso… I assured the nice lady I would be dead if I waited with the vehicle that long. Lucky a nice old rancher just happened to be driving by & stopped to help & gave me a lift to town. All this on Saturday August 11, 2012. The nice people from roadside assistance let me know they had picked up my vehicle & they would be towing it to Mini of El Paso. I called Monday August 13th, 2012 morning & spoke with Micheal & let him know what happened ect. & that I needed to resolve this problem quickly since I am stuck in Ft. Stockton with no vehicle. I called on Weds August 15th & he assured me he would call & let me know what the problem was. Well He never called back on Thursday August 16th I called back & left message… no return call on Friday August 17th I called again & the service clerk let me know they thought it was the clutch & flywheel but she didn’t think it would be covered .. I would have to wait & talk with Micheal. Well after sever more phone calls I finally spoke with Micheal & of course first thing out of his mouth was due to the low mile on the vehicle it was apparent the damages were due to in experience driving a standard or abuse or negligence to the vehicle. I have driven standards all my life the last 24 years of it anyway & I have never had a clutch issue with any of my vehicles until 75,000 mile range. I work VERY hard for my money & I am a 40 year old female I can assure you I don’t drag race in my car or abuse it in anyway. Thanks to the many hours patiently waiting on Micheal to return my calls I did some research on this problem & to my amazement there seems to be a large number of poorly qualified standard drivers who are mini owners. When I finally did talk to Micheal again I questioned him on this & he claims he has never heard of their being such a problem. I asked him if he had access to the internet & if so to google Mini Clutch problem because if he truly wasn’t aware ( which is doubtful) he needed to be. This was all on Friday the 17th He said that they would have to open up the clutch to determine what caused the damage but if they deemed it neglect & abuse I would be responsible for the damages I told him to go ahead & diagnose it & let me know ASAP I am going on a week without a vehicle out of town working ( which reminds me I only have 1 stop sign on my daily commute to work so not in town hotroding as he suggested) He assured me he would let me know something Sat. 18th. Saturday came & went as well as Monday. Here it Tuesday the 21st & not only do I not have an answer he also tells me they just realized the Starter is out as well. I explained to Micheal last Friday that I NEED my vehicle no later then Tuesday TODAY. I am stuck out here in Ft. Stockton bumming rides to work & My Son is scheduled to have surgery for a broken jaw & eye socket in Houston at Ben Taubs Hospital on Thursday Morning Houston is an 8 hour drive & I have NO Vehicle or any real answers. I have TRIED to be patient but this has been a horrible experience all the way around. Here are a few of the links to share with Micheal on the previous clutch issues other unlucky Mini owners have experienced.



    http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/759410/clutch-eating-minis



    http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/cooper-s-clubman-s-engine-drivetrain/1076- 6-clutch-issues-cooper-s.html#axzz24DWQfWmu



    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0f65bf/321

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/mini.html



    http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=422155



    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0f65bf



    http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=990251&d=0&nmt



    these are just a few I guess I should have researched before buying a $35,000.00 vehicle but I felt like I was paying for quality & that BMW would stand behind their product & honor their warranty. Not to mention a better communication policy with the service dept. to the customer.



    I hope there is someway we can get this resolved quickly as far as HOW I am going to get to Houston by Thursday at 8 am when it’s a 8 hour drive I have no idea I guess I will try to find some shuttle system to Odessa 80 miles away to the closet car-rental place & then turn around & drive to Houston. I guess I would have been better off having my car towed to Mini of Houston? I am just so very upset with the service dept right now I am in tears.



    Thank You ,

    Ronda
  • jkirk61jkirk61 Member Posts: 1
    I just bought a 2009 Mini Cooper S from CarMax last week with 21k miles on it. I drove it less than 400 miles before the clutch become an issue. I took the car to CarMax for warranty work and was told that the dealer would have to do the service. Sure enough, the dealer stated it was not covered under warranty due to normal “wear & tear”. Based on all the comments I’ve read on this forum, I am returning the car to CarMax for a full refund since I am not the only one with this same issue. I understand that buying a used car is a “buyer beware” situation but Mini Cooper should be more responsive to a problem that exists for many owners. Mini Cooper is not building a quality product & I will NEVER buy another Mini Cooper.
  • ctartsmorleyctartsmorley Member Posts: 3
    Just wanted to let you know this happened to me today. I bought a used 2008 Mini Cooper S in 2011, it had about 17K miles on it. The car now has 28000 miles on it. I am a veteran stick driver, learned in a stick and every car I have ever owned has been a stick except one. I have NEVER ruined a clutch. They told me today that it was likely the previous owner had, "had some fun" in the car before they turned it in. I am so happy to have to pay for someone else's fun.
  • ren1234ren1234 Member Posts: 1
    My wife and i bought a used 2011 mini cooper jcw in july and we loved this car till the clutch gave out i was amazed that the clutch would give out so fast. My wife used the car to go to work and back and she swears that she never rode the clutch, i thought id do some research on this matter and i found that theres lots of people having this same issue so, I too know what you are going through. I was told the same thing
    About my clutch and flywheel and yes i too have had a conversation
    With micheal from mini of el paso about this issue and just like you
    I feel pretty burned when it comes to my mini cooper jcw. They quoted
    Me a price of 3000 dollars to fix my issue (clutch$380,flywheel around$840
    And the bolts that hold this together $100 dollars, and labor was going
    To cost$1680 dollars) i told them to tow it to my house and i was just going to
    Buy the parts myself online i found a site that will sell me the parts for
    $800 and a shop that specializes in bmw and mini cooper will install the parts
    For me, I dealt with these guys before with my 335i and there great. Bmw and mini of el paso's service shop is a big ripoff, its sad because I bought 4 cars from this place.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's the labor cost for the clutch that's hard to avoid...something like 12 or 13 hours to dig that clutch out of there and put it back in...you pretty much have to take the entire front of the car off...if you watch it being done, you'll be shocked to see it.

    So you can save on parts but skilled labor is skilled labor, so you can't get this job done for 'cheap' no matter what you do.

    I've calculated this every which way and the best I can do in California is about $1800 parts and labor.

    The important thing to remember is that since it's 12/13 hours labor, you dont' want to be in there 2X---so replace every damn thing associated with that clutch--don't skimp on the type or quality of the parts.
  • tulip3tulip3 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2003 Mini, bought new, std shift, my transmission died on the highway at 45,000 miles. I've driven standards all my life, this is the first time this has ever happened. It cost $4,500, out of warranty, 2 year guarantee up next year. But still hard to get into reverse. They will not admit to there being any transmission issues with these cars, which is clearly untrue. Trunk latch didn't work from the beginning, but fixed right away. I love this car, but always nervous about the transmission.
  • renotrishrenotrish Member Posts: 1
    edited December 2012
    I own a 2012 Countryman that is less than TWO MONTHS old with 4000 miles on it. yes, you read right, 4000 miles on it. I have been driving manual transmissions for 40 years and this is not my first rodeo driving a stick. I recently was in very heavy stop and go, mostly stopped traffic when I noticed a burning smell coming from the car and my mini was seriously lagging and revving up, without wanting to go anywhere. Long and short of it is I went to Niello Mini Cooper dealership in Sacramento and was told that the clutch was burned out and that it would not be covered under warranty due to customer abuse!!! WTF? ABUSE??? I do NOT drive the car abusively. I have owned Porches for years, toyotas, VW's, never EVER had to replace a clutch EVER, even after 100,000 miles. Now I see on the internet that this clutch burning out is an issue that many, many Mini Cooper owners are experiencing and lack of Mini/BMW wanting to address it. Dealer wants $3500 to tear out transmission and replace clutch. What a crock of $hit. Everyone who drives cars knows that a clutch doesn't just burn out after less than two month ownership and 4000 miles.......give me a break! HELP!!!!! I haven't even owned my car long enough for its first oil change yet somehow I am now an abusive driver and they want $3500 out of me for an issue that they KNOW is THEIR issue and not abuse from owners......I have now read that the most serious issue with the Countryman (especially the all wheel drive models) like mine, is that for the manual transmission BMW used the same clutch as in the smaller Mini S models, and it’s just not heavy duty enough for a car that’s 600-700 lbs, heavier. Lots of owners are complaining of smelling burning clutches and clutches that do not engage smoothly and need replacement within the first year. I have experienced a lag in the clutch taking off in 1st gear on hills since day 1, it is actually very concerning whenever I get stopped on a hill to get my car to engage, pretty scary to be giving it that much gas and get no response except to roll backwards where I have to set emergency break and REALLY gas it to finally get car up the hill. I actually now start sweating when I see a hill that I may get stuck on, not wanting to be in such a situation with my Mini. I had a friend drive it as well and he said that is the WORSE clutch he has ever driven and had the EXACT experience when on a hill where he was slipping back due to the lag of the clutch and had to set emergency break to finally get up the hill. This is LUDICROUS!!!!

    MINI COOPER/BMW WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE......BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR POORLY DESIGNED PRODUCTS AND FIX THE PROBLEM!!! THE ONLY ABUSE IS COMING FROM YOUR LACK OF INTEGRITY!!!!!
  • ctartsmorleyctartsmorley Member Posts: 3
    A cautionary tale about making a Mini purchase from Stevens Creek Mini:
    SUMMARY: For those who don’t want to read a book, here is a summary with the full account of my dealings with Stevens Creek Mini following.
    I am the currently embittered, disaffected, cynical second owner of a 2008 Mini Cooper S purchased from Stevens Creek Mini in San Jose, California. I wanted to love this car for years to come. I no longer have confidence in Mini as a brand or Stevens Creek Mini as a dealership.
    Within the first 19 months of ownership I have had to spend $4394.71 to maintain this car. I thought I had all the protection I needed having purchased an extended warranty, maintenance and tire protection packages. In the end I feel I have just wasted my money.
    The car was sold to me with 2 practically bald front tires one of which had a bulge (they didn’t look bald or defective to an untrained eye) $729.70 to replace. The tires were not covered under the tire protection package as tread was found to be too worn to qualify.
    The Clutch burned out at 28,003 Miles. This was not covered under my extended warranty, and I was told it was “user abuse”. I have been driving a manual transmission for 20 years and NEVER burned out a clutch. The Service writer told me “one bad hill in San Francisco” could burn out a Mini clutch. Other employees at the dealership mentioned that clutches are notorious for problems. If they are notorious for problems then why aren’t they covered under warranty on a 4 year old car with less than 30K miles on it?
    Aside from all that I would like to point the tires out again, in order to connect the clutch to the tires for you as they suddenly connected for me. Isn’t it strange that 3 months after I purchased the car I was told I needed new tires? Would this not suggest that whoever traded the car in had decided to have some “fun” with it before getting rid of it? What kind of tires wear out after 16, 617 miles? Again what kind of clutch wears out after 28k?
    My Mini Horror Story:
    I purchased a 2008 Mini Cooper S from Stevens Creek Mini in San Jose, CA on March 26, 2011. I chose a used Mini cooper because I didn’t want the new car price tag; I loved the sportiness, ease of parking, and had hopes of saving on gas and insurance.
    The car had 16,617 miles on it and was equipped with all the comforts a person could ask for. I am aware of the fact that this is a “luxury” sports car and with that I could at some point expect some rather costly maintenance bills, none of which I expected to occur within the first year and a half of ownership. Along with the purchase of the car I procured extended warranty, maintenance, and tire protection packages.
    I am so sad to report that my Mini experience has been far less than stellar. Within the first 6 months of ownership I think at about 19000 miles I was told I needed to purchase 2 new tires as the car was sold to me with unacceptably worn front tires one of which had a bulge in the sidewall. I was aware of the fact that the tread was a little low when I bought the car, but they are low profile tires so I could not tell just how low. Upon test drive it was suggested to me by my friend’s dad (a mechanic) that I rotate hose tires to the back of the car. When I went in for my first service I was told that you don’t rotate the tires on a Mini, you just replace them as they become worn. This was not explained during the purchase of the car. In fact no one really walked me through the car at all. Once the sale was complete they took the car, washed it, handed me the keys, showed me a few bells and whistles on the interior and that was it.
    Hindsight is 20/20 and I probably should have demanded new tires be put on the car before taking delivery. Unfortunately I assumed (naively) that Mini of Stevens Creek would not sell me a car with what pretty much qualified in the Mini world as bald tires, I was obviously wrong in that assumption. As mentioned I purchased a tire protection package, I had hoped this might cover at the very least the tire with the bulge in it, nope. I was informed that the tread was too low on the tire for it to qualify for coverage under that package. Due to my own financial difficulties it took me 9 months to replace the tires, two Continental run flat tires (no room or a spare in a mini) out the door runs $729.00.
    2 Weeks ago I noticed the clutch started slipping and that the engine was rattling on start. I took the car in to Stevens Creek Mini to find out what was wrong. One of the service department employees drove me around in my car unable to replicate the noises I was hearing or the slip in the clutch. I have to point out that he drove my car ever so gently; I don’t know anyone who drives like he did, that is unless one of your passengers is holding a very hot cup of coffee. He did point out that my clutch felt stiff so I mentioned again that it seemed to be slipping sometimes in 2nd and 3rd gears. He casually stated that I would probably have to have it replaced but not right now. They took the car into the shop and checked my fluid levels which were low, they topped me off and asked me when the last time I checked my fluids had been. I told them I never checked them. I was horrified to learn that I needed to be checking them once a month. This was the first time in the 19 months I have had the car that anyone had told me I needed to be checking my fluids. Right after I got the car I called Mini of Stevens Creek’s service department to ask when I was supposed to come in for service and I was told that there was an indicator that would light up for 2 seconds that would show the approximate date and mileage I would need to bring the car in, and that there was NOTHING I needed to do until then. I was NEVER told that I needed to check my fluids monthly. This was distressing because I could have blown my engine. I left the dealership on 9/21 believing that my car was fine only to be back with a burned out clutch, fly wheel and broken timing chain guide on 10/05.
    On October 5, 2012 my four year old Mini had 28,000 miles on it. My husband was driving my mini to take our son to school; he tried to enter the freeway shifting into second gear going about 15 miles per hour when the car would not shift into gear. The engine just revved and nothing happened, he switched to 3rd gear and after a little more revving the engine slammed into gear. He managed to get the car home at which point I decided to take it to the dealership. I got in the car and immediately knew the clutch was almost gone, there was a horrible smell and I had to let the clutch almost all the way out before the car would move.
    As stated in the summary I have driven a manual transmission for my entire driving career, 20 years at this point. I have NEVER burned out a clutch. My last car was a 2003 VW Jetta GLI, my husband cut his teeth on that clutch and we didn’t have to replace anything but a slave cylinder at over 80 thousand miles.
  • ctartsmorleyctartsmorley Member Posts: 3
    When I got to the dealership I was told clutches only burn out at 28000 miles due to “user abuse” and that it would not be covered under warranty. I was also told that If the car had had 50,000 miles on it the repair would have been covered because that is considered normal wear and tear. I don’t believe any clutch should burn out at 28,000 miles; I honestly don’t even know what you have to do to punish a clutch so hard that it burns out at 28000 miles. I am not an abusive driver and I do not believe I am at fault for the burn out especially after having a service writer tell me that Mini clutches are so sensitive that “one bad hill in San Francisco can take your clutch out.” In fact I would at this point like to state that I am positive that I, being a very proficient manual transmission driver managed to squeeze the last of the life out of a clutch that was probably already on its way out at the time I purchased the car, given the condition of the tires. Had Stevens Creek Mini really wanted to cover its tracks they would have changed those tires before putting the car on the lot. As stated previously it has become painfully obvious that whoever owned the car before I took possession raced the hell out of it.
    After leaving my car at the dealership I went home and did some internet research. It seems Mini’s are notorious for clutch problems, but Mini USA probably doesn’t want to acknowledge this, as it is a VERY costly repair. Many other drivers having the same experience as I have, got the same line from the dealership, “the clutch burned out due to user abuse.” While this might be true in some cases I have a hard time believing that so many veteran manual transmission owners would experience clutch failure after so few miles.
    On October 12, 2012 I got the call from the dealership letting me know that my car was ready. I will say that I was pleased that the repair only took one week. I went to pick it up and asked to speak with the General Manager; I wanted to tell him about my experience at his dealership. I felt he needed to know about my buying experience, my disappointment in the product that was sold to me, and the fact that I was not given very important details regarding care and maintenance of my car. I was pretty much told that he was out to lunch and that if I wanted to I could speak with the service manager, (it was also implied that the GM couldn’t really be bothered to speak with me because he was a very busy man). I conceded and waited for the service manager for 10 minutes before I was told he was out to lunch too but that he would give me a call. The service manager did call me about 2 hours later (I had gone home by then) at which time I gave him a detailed verbal account. He apologized for my experience and said that he understood that Stevens Creek Mini had failed me in some ways. He also told me that he was on his way up to meet with the GM and would talk to him about my experience, though he wasn’t sure if anything could be done. He also stated again stated that he inspected the parts himself and chalked my clutch failure up to user abuse. I thanked him for his time and we hung up.

    I now have ZERO confidence of Mini of Stevens Creek; I don’t believe they really care about customer service, user experience, or even customer safety for that matter. If they really cared, I would not have been sold a car with bald tires. I am not sure about Mini as a brand but I don’t think I will be purchasing another Mini because I don’t want a car that is so fragile it can’t take a hill or forgive any kind of manual driver error, which I still deny.
    I have walked away from this experience feeling like the biggest sucker; my once beloved car is tainted and I wish I didn’t have to drive it anymore. Unfortunately I still owe on the car, so much to my chagrin I will be driving it for many years to come. I might not feel so bad if I’d not had to hand over approximately one year’s worth of car payments all in one day, or if Mini of SC had offered to take some responsibility and cover half the cost of repairs as a good faith gesture. I do however live in the real world, and I have more than once been made to realize that if people (especially people at car dealerships) can screw you for money, they will.
  • txminitxmini Member Posts: 3
    I recently took my 2006 MCSC 6-speed automatic to a shop for brake work. Brakes were fixed (including new sensors) and when I picked up my car, the transmission was a mess as soon as I left the parking lot!! They tried to diagnose it but couldn't so they had it shipped over to the local Mini dealer. They tell me that 1-3 gears are fine but 4-6 are gone and I need a whole new tranny. However, when I asked for the specific codes they got, they say there were none. Hmmm...

    Two questions:
    1.) how can they know for sure what needs to be done if they didn't get any codes??
    2.) is there any way something could have happened during the brake replacement that could cause some sort of electrical-type problems with the tranny??

    I am not going to spend $9k for a new tranny so I am looking for options. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So the transmission was absolutely fine when you drove in? If so, I think you need to pursue this with the garage that did the brakes. I mean, there are speed sensors involved in CVT transmission operation, and maybe some re-learning to do if the battery was disconnected or discharged. It just seems implausible that the transmission would go from good to bad the minute you drove out of the repair shop.

    If you are in the San Francisco Bay Area, I could send you to a place that actually knows how to repair a MINI.
  • txminitxmini Member Posts: 3
    Transmission was perfectly fine before I took it in. The Mini dealer has scanned it and says "no codes" show up. I asked about relearning/reprogramming and they said there isn't any reprogramming required - that is not what I see when I look on various forums. Is there a more specific process that I could tell them to go through to make sure this is not something electronic? Since 1-3 gears are fine, someone told me the car could be in some sort of "preservation" mode that allows it to work at a minimal level to get to a repair shop. Have you heard of this?

    Unfortunately I am in San Antonio TX so I am too far from your recommended shop.

    Thanks for your feedback.
    Julie
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    maybe you could check out the reputation of this outfit in San Antonio?

    http://www.sanantonioeuro.com/

    I do want to caution you, though---if anyone else REPAIRS or attempts to fix the transmission, this *might* let the original garage who did the brake work off the hook--so you'd have to limit it to diagnostics, and if the diagnostics show some damage to speed sensors or wiring, then you have a legal gripe with the shop that did the brake work.

    Here's the text of a Technical Service Bulletin that gives some info on "re-learning", but I don't know if this is applicable to your current symptoms:

    SI M 24 01 09
    Automatic Transmission
    January 2009
    Technical Service
    SUBJECT
    R50/R52 CVT; Engine Speed Flaring on Deceleration
    MODEL
    R50, R52 Cooper with CVT transmission and W10
    SITUATION

    The customer may complain of engine speed flaring ("engine revs up") during a closed-throttle deceleration from highway speeds. No faults are stored in the EMS2K/MS5150 (DME) control module.

    CAUSE

    Unfavorable CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) gear ratio adaptation

    CORRECTION

    Clear the CVT long-term gear adaptation values, and perform the complete transmission "adaptation teach-in" procedure, according to the instructions below.

    Important Note:
    The unfavorable gear adaptation values may be erased, and the correct values can be relearned, by occasionally driving the vehicle in "Sport" or in "Manual" (Steptronic) mode.
    Please advise the customer that occasional changes in driving mode (Sport or Manual modes, from time to time) would prevent the engine speed flaring condition from occurring.

    PROCEDURE

    To clear the CVT long-term gear ratio adaptation:

    1. Connect the vehicle to the ISID/GT1, loaded with the latest diagnostic software.

    2. Select "Service Functions"; then "Drive" and "CVT gear".

    3. From the second column, select "Replacement/adaptation, CVT transmission" and then "Test Plan".

    4. Scroll through the next screens and answer "Yes" to the question "Is it necessary to delete adaptation values?" After the CVT gear ratio adaptations are deleted, perform a complete transmission "teach-in" procedure, as follows:

    Clutch adaptation:

    1. Press and hold the brake pedal. Start the cold engine.

    2. During a cold start warm-up phase (idle speed is slightly increased), shift from P to N for 10 seconds, and then shift to D for 10 seconds. XP will be displayed in the instrument cluster.

    3. Repeat the following sequence 10 times: shift from P to N for 3 seconds, and then shift to D for 3 seconds. XP will be displayed in the instrument cluster.

    4. Repeat the following sequence 10 times: shift from P to N for 3 seconds, and then shift to R for 3 seconds. XP will be displayed in the instrument cluster.

    Gear ratio adaptation:

    1. Accelerate the vehicle to a speed of 50 mph. Release the accelerator pedal and allow the vehicle to coast down to a stop. The transmission adapts itself when going through 4,500 rpm, 4,000 rpm...and 1,400 rpm engine speeds. P will be displayed now in the instrument cluster.

    2. With the engine at the operating temperature (idle speed stabilized at 800 rpm), repeat Clutch Adaptation steps 3 and 4.

    3. Turn the ignition off.
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