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Buick Lucerne: Engine & Performance

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Comments

  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The 6T70 transmission that GM has announced for the Saturn Aura is rated for up to 280 lb-ft of torque and 315 hp. While the northstar V8 fits into the horsepower limit, it does have 295 lb-ft of torque, so this transmission is not going to be used with the V8. It could be used with the 3800. This is the FWD transmission developed with Ford and there could be higher performance versions some time later on.

    I still think that the big FWD sedan is going to be replaced by RWD.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The 6T70 transmission that GM has announced for the Saturn Aura is rated for up to 280 lb-ft of torque and 315 hp. While the northstar V8 fits into the horsepower limit, it does have 295 lb-ft of torque, so this transmission is not going to be used with the V8. It could be used with the 3800. This is the FWD transmission developed with Ford and there could be higher performance versions some time later on.

    Actually it could be used. They just use the powertrain computer to keep the torque down when it would be damaging to the tranny. Did this with the supercharged 3800 in the Regal GS.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    As I understand it, the Aura will be the first to get this transmission, so the Lucerne will be somewhat later to get it, assuming that it ever does. If the FWD northstar is going to be around much longer, one would think that a VVT version would be developed. I would expect a 6T80 transmission for the northstar. I will repeat that I expect the Lucerne and DTS to become RWD sometime in the next few years.
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    It's the same red w/ cashmere interior they used for the pics you can find on the net. Don't have any of mine, and wouldn't know how to download them anyway. Sorry.
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    Here's a website w/ accurate photos. http://www.forbesautos.com/gallery/2006/buick/lucerne/

    Although, there is one photo from back seat toward dash in which the colors of the steering wheel and dash are much darker and deeper than actual.
  • jeff43jeff43 Posts: 14
    The 3800 engine is tried and true. It has been around for eons, and I would be sad to see it go. 197 horsepower seems a trifle short, but they hopefully will boost that number a little, maybe to 220.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    3800 is going away and no HP increases.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    It will go away in the U.S., but I am sure it will still be in use in other countries such as Argentina. In some of the South American countries, they have the tooling from GM in which they still produce some 1970 and 1980 generation automobiles.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Is it really short in horsepower or are we just spoiled?

    Years back 150-175 hp were pretty common in a V8 sedan.

    The S10 Blazers 4.3 engine when released was considered very powerful, and nothing could match it. Then within a couple years it was considered sluggish. The new Trailblazer with the 275 hp inline 6 was called a screamer among other praise when it came out, now writers say it is slow with a need for more power. This goes to show that no matter what the horse power is, someone will eventually claim that it is not enough.
  • Poncho, I think we are spoiled. I remember 0-60 times of V-8s in 1970s and 1980s era mid size cars being around 12 seconds. That was enough to get you out of most trouble while passing. The 1960s big block full size cars were 9-10 seconds. Now, 0-60 in 8-9 seconds is considered a little slow. My GM V-6s are in that range and their power exceeds my nerve.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    It will go away in the U.S., but I am sure it will still be in use in other countries...

    Not true. GM makes European models in South America and no V6 is made locally. Older versions of the 3.1 V6 are made in China, but no 90° V6.

    The only other country where the 3.8 is made is Australia, and it's being phased out there too. The Saab 2.8 Turbo and the Alfa Romeo 3.2 direct-injection variations of the 3.6 are made in Australia.
  • jh1977jh1977 Posts: 40
    I read the 3800 engine will ceased production in 2008. Does anymore know if the Buick Lucerne for the 2008 model year will have the new 3.9 Liter engine (currently in the 2006 Chey Impala) as an optional engine? The 3800 engine currently in the 2006 Lucerne was a great engine for years but time has now past it by. I believe the optional V8 engine in the Buick Lucerne burns to much gasoline and is not necessary for most driving needs for the average driver. Can you car experts give me some feedback on my question and statement.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    There may be no V6 engines made there locally, but the 3.8 L is world renown with over 30 million units produced. Likely it will end up somewhere maybe in a Reatta or previous generation Riveria, or something else.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    No, the 3.8 is largely unknown outside of the US and Australia. It's never been in any European model nor sold there officially.

    And many American models, like the Riviera and the Regatta, were never made outside the US. Most countries just cannot afford cars of that size and powertrain.

    For instance, while automatic transmissions are predominant in N. America and in Japan, they're short of a curiosity elsewhere. Mainly because elsewhere small engines are the norm and they can't spare 5 or 10HP that it takes to run such transmissions.

    Bottom line: due to different market preferences, the 3.8 is mostly an American market engine. Not that it detracts from its virtues.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    per a GM press release the new 6 speed auto can handle up to 300lb-ft of torque which means it can be used on the Lucerne V8. This is updated information that differs from what GM posted earlier about this tranny. Looks like every GM FWD car except the 5.3V8 equipped W cars can get the new 6 speed. The press release said the tranny will debut on the Aura and Outlook but doesn't say if it will be available on other models in calendar '06. I know the other crossovers will get it but I'm willing to bet a few other products will get it as well. Cant think of two better candidates than the Lucerne and Lacrosse.

    You can read about it on media.gm.com
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,550
    "per a GM press release the new 6 speed auto can handle up to 300lb-ft of torque which means it can be used on the Lucerne V8. This is updated information that differs from what GM posted earlier about this tranny. Looks like every GM FWD car except the 5.3V8 equipped W cars can get the new 6 speed."

    I looked on media.gm.com & don't see a reference - link, please?

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    One of the unfortunate ( ? ) GM 5.3L V8 drivers . .
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Probably will not see the 6 speed in the Lucerne/LaCrosse on the 3.8L. It's going away soon. BUT may see it with the V8's. At 323 tq they may play with the engine control module to "detune" at certain points to not overtax the 6 speed. Did that with all the 3800 superchargers.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The info is under the NY autoshow link on the right side of the gm media homepage It's under the powetrain tab.

    The Lucerne isnt perfect, but it's obvious that Edmunds didnt like the vehicle and no intention of giving it an objective review. The intent of that review was to prove to you that the Lucerne is a worse value than the Avalon and the Azera. They could care less about the Lucerne's postive features because they see it as a lame Buick and is was reviewed as such. They said the Lucerne wont do much to help the ailing brand of Buick while other magazines are saying that its the best Buick in years, maybe even decades. You do the math. Complaints about 4 speed autos and acceleration may be warrranted but the rest of that stuff is BS. Even C&D said the interior of the Lucerne was nice and that is significant considering their anti GM stance.
  • sirius2sirius2 Posts: 42
    I just test drove my first Buick, the Lucerne today. Very nice vehicle. It's quieter than my Honda Odyssey and leaps above my Lumina. If priced right this will be a winner, and since I live in Detroit I have to live with that "employee pricing" scam since I have no GM family members, which to me is one more reason to buy Japanese, or from an out-of-town dealer. But don't get me started on the perils of buying cars in Detroit. More importantly the Lucerne had the room, performance and refinements to make an excellent choice for anyone wanting a larger sedan.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,550
    "The info is under the NY autoshow link on the right side of the gm media homepage It's under the powetrain tab. "

    Aha!
    Thanks.
    Very interesting . . .
    - Ray
    Wondering if a 6T80 will be coming . . .
  • jeff43jeff43 Posts: 14
    How do you know this?
  • jeff43jeff43 Posts: 14
    I think we are spoiled because, honestly, you will see 205 HP in a Chevy Cobalt SS. I guess it just seems wierd for a full size car to have less HP than a compact, but it probably performs fine.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    3800 is well known to be on it's last manufacturing module. Only the LaCrosse/Grand Prix/Lucerne still use it as a base engine. When it is dropped is the question. Most economical thing for GM to do is hang on to it untill the 3 cars are replaced. Do not know exactly when but the W cars will probably be gone by 2009 at the latest. Once the W cars lose it the Lucerne volume will be to low to support the manufacturing facility.

    It makes no sense to up the HP on an engine that has been at 200 for years. GM is spending the money on the new engines, ie 3.5 and 3.9.

    My guess is that they will probably replace the 3800 in the Lucerne with either the 3.9 or 3.6 around '08. They may also, due to powertrain manufacturing efficiencies, drop the 3800 in 2008 for the other cars.
  • can you explain the problem with buying a car in detroit....just curious...thanks
  • jeff43jeff43 Posts: 14
    From what I have read, the 3.6 is more refined than the 3.9.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Yes, but also another $1500 in price. And they both at this time have 240hp in FWD. but the 3.9 bests the 3.6 in torque. So for $1500 in price I would think most of the under $30k car buyers would go for the extra money in their pocket or a sunroof or some other feature.

    Of course in a few years the 3.6 will bump up in hp to around 270 or so (see the buick Enclave).

    I am hoping they make the 3.6 standard in the LaCrosse/Lucerne and the CTS. With today's HP war and the V8's in the Buicks and the premiumness they are going after in the Buicks I think they could take a hit in the base price. Also with the Buicks being replaced soon why develop another powertrain combo for the LaCrosse when the 3800 dies?
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The torque is of primary importance when it comes to performance. The horsepower only tells you how much torque is left once you get the engine near the redline. Both the 3.6 DOHC V6 from the LaCrosse and the 3800 have about 220 lb-ft of torque over the power band (useful engine speed range). Note:
    3.6: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2006_36- - L_LY7_LaCrosse.pdf

    3800: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/HPT%20Library/90%20Deg%20V- - 6/2006_3800_L26_Buick_Lucerne.pdf

    The basic difference is that the 3800's torque drops off above 4500 RPMs, while the 3.6 is still good till 5500 RPMs. If the LaCrosse V6 goes into the Lucerne with a six speed automatic, then that would be a big improvement, otherwise, not. However, if the Lucerne got the 3.6 with CTS tuning, or better still, the 270 hp tuning, then, with the six speed automatic, one could dump the aging northstar V8. I do not expect a VVT FWD northstar to ever see production.

    CTS 3.6: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2006_36- - L_LY7_CTS.pdf
  • jh1977jh1977 Posts: 40
    From reading your message are you saying the 3800 engine provides more than adequate power in the current base Buick Lucerne? Also would GM's new 3.9 Liter engine {which is less expensive than GM's DOHC 3.6 Liter engine} which is currently in the 2006 Chevy Impala, be a more powerful engine in the base Buick Lucerne compared to the 3800 engine? Sincerely.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,370
    I don't get all the comments about the 3800. I have a leSabre with it; I don't find torque lacking and the trans is always smoooothly shifting when 3rd is needed instead of 4th. I drove from the Smokeys home today and got an indicated 34.6 mpg at 68-72 mph with a short traffic light stop off the interstate and a stop for food and a traffic backup of about 5 minutes. That's all interstate on I75 from Knoxville over the mountains to Dayton. No air conditioning until the last 70 miles.

    I haven't driven a Lucerne but I'd recommend a rental or a long tes drive to see if it doesn't serve just as well. Unless you want the hotrod torque or a quick motor and the decrease in mileage.
  • jh1977jh1977 Posts: 40
    The 3800 engine is a good engine but it is now dated. The new Lucerne is heavier than the LeSabre. Car buyers should have in addition to the V8 engine, 3800 engine, another V6 engine to choose in the Lucerne such as GM's 3.6 or 3.9 Liter engines. Car buyers have a choice of 4 different engines in the Chrysler 300 vehicles.
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