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Buick Lucerne: Engine & Performance

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Comments

  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    My point is the model should have been available in September, when everyone else started selling the 06 models. It just seems to be a bad move to let the competition have a several month head start on you, especially when you're launching a new model that you hope to save the division. I'd certainly rather see them get it right, but I think proper planning would have had them start production several months earlier.
  • Well, I don't think 7.5 sec 0-60 is great. I can't lay my hands on all the numbers but I think a new STS with V6 is faster than the Lucerne with V8. It sure feels faster to me. That's a shame. Then again, the STS will cost me a few more bucks.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,727
    Whatever the plan for selling the Lucerne as far as the date, I'm sure it was planned around having a working car with as few build problems as possible. If they'd called it an 06 1/2 that might have gotten more attention from the target public.

    I'm sure whatever GM did, they would have been criticized for having done it that way in these discussions. So I'm happy to see they have a broad price range car to temporarily replace the two they killed which were both great cars.

    This message has been approved.

  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Motor Trend had a comparison of V6's in March. The STS did 0-60 in 6.8 seconds. But Motor Trend's LaCrosse test with the 3.6 engine did 0-60 in 8 seconds and that was with a 3.69:1 axle ratio, not the STS's 3.42:1 axle ratio, which should have given it some advantage.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    The 3.6 used by Cadillac is more powerful and has more torque than the one used by Buick.
  • If your time is so important, why would you not call first before showing up for a no show. At my dealership we had over 50 people come in for our VIP Lucerne night. It was pretty cool. We live within an hour of the plant and our supply has been fine the entire time! We have them in stock and ready for sale.

    That is my problem. If they had started advertising
    them when they were in the dealerships to sell. I would
    have no complaint at all.
    But GM (with it's advertising) invited me in to look
    at a car THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO SHOW ME! Like my time
    isn't worth anything? I went three times and no cars.
    That is all the time I'll spend chasing a NO SHOW!

    Sorry GM, Better seal the borders, because YOUR workers
    are going to need the farm harvesting jobs next year!
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I am fully aware of that. The reason is that the Buick version does not have the variable intake manifold as far as I can tell. The 3.6 V6 engine family was designed to make use of direct injection at some future point in time. So I think that in time the 3.6 or some variation of that engine will probably have direct injection, assuming that GM does not file for chapter 7 first.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    More to the point, your dealer did not have one when you went. Other dealers probably did. I don't think that any dealers had them before October. Since the Lucerne and DTS share basic body designs, I think someone determined that Cadillac had priority for getting the DTS into production first, and the Lucerne was delayed.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    Yep. The 3.2 version used by Alfa Romeo has direct injection.
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    First Lucernes went to the dealers in mid to late November. My CXS was delivered to the dealer about one week before I bought it on December 6.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    "An "upscale division" should not be sharing a lowend engine with Chevy. I think that Cadillac and Buick should be GM's upper end divisions and should have OHC (mostly double OHC) engines".

    Funny thing is, chev isn't even using the 3800 anymore. I'd be ok with the new 3.9L as a base for the Lucerne, but the 3.6L should probably be the base.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I dont know if you are new to this topic, but the issue of the 3800 has been beat to death thoroughly and I dont think many people here would argue that the Lucerne would be better off with a 3.6L V6 or a 3.9L V6. The last generation A6 has a 200hp engine standard and did 0-60 in about 9 secs and the magazines still loved the car. The Lucerne isnt the first luxury car to have an inadequate base engine and it wont be the last. This may chase away buyers, but most buyers who really like the car and want more power will get the CXL V8. Remember, the upper models of the Lesabre cost just as much as the CXL V8 Lucerne.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My point was that the Chevy 3.9 is not really more upscale than the 3800. I think that the Lucerne really should not have a six at all, but in the interests of a lower price tag, the 3800 is a good choice. The 3.9, with its VVT, is probably a more expensive engine and would require higher prices at the low end of the Lucerne line, so why bother.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,477
    Looking at the published (GM Powertrain) HP \ TQ curves for the 3800 as used in the Lucerne and the 3.9 as used in the Impala:

    The 3.9 LZ9 has higher peak HP & TQ (242 \ 242 vs the 3800’s 200 \ 230), somewhat higher Torque at every point on the curve above 1500 RPM, substantially higher peak HP and a wider rpm range.

    Though it may be more expensive, the numbers suggest to me that it is “better”, from this standpoint.

    As someone else has suggested, the 3800 probably costs much less to produce.
    And interesting choice by GM here – and we’ll see where sales go . .

    - Ray
    A “Torque Snob” – wanting (way) more than 242, and thus more interested in the V8 version . . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I am talking about NVH (noise, vibration, harshness). However, Car & Driver has tested two 3.9's in the latest issure and has not made an complaints about the engine. But if you really want torque, the V8 with nearly 300 lb-ft is the only engine worth considering. The 3.6 found in the CTS with 250 lb-ft of torque would be the best V6 to put in the Lucerne.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Actually, the mags ragged on the 98 A6 with the 200 horse engine. That engine was swapped out subsequently, I believe, after a few years, as well. Let's hope the Lucerne will find the same fate, and move to an engine that doesnt date back to 1962.

    ~alpha
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,727
    >move to an engine that doesnt date back to 1962.

    What engine dates back to 1962? The 3.8 has undergone several and important changes. The motor isn't the same as it was before 1993.

    This message has been approved.

  • Actually, every engine in every car (excepting the miniscule number of electric vehicles) dates back to the 1800's - an explosion in a cylinder causes a shaft to rotate. ;)
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    It's architecture reflects the state-of-the-art in engine design of the 50's.

    Although OHV is not necessarily bad, in this day and age 4 valves per cylinder and variable valve timing are must-haves, which incidentally are easier to implement with OHC. GM has such an engine already.

    GM decided to not put it in the Lucerne because it's counting on the typical Buick customer not noticing it. :) IOW, GM can forget about attracting younger buyers. These will find their needs met elsewhere.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I think GM used this engine because they have to produce it and it must go into something. I don't think Buick wanted this engine at all. The 3800 is going to be in cars bought by rental agencies and people more concerned about mileage than acceleration. If you want fast 0-60 times this isnt the car for you, even the V8 isnt all that fast. This car isnt about smoking people at stop lights and if that is your goal that the Impala SS and Avalon are great choices. I saw a CXL on the road today and it is a good looking car.

    BTW, I wouldnt count on this engine being in this car until 2008. If extra capacity for the 3.6 becomes available (and it should in 2006) I would expect it to go into the Lucerne. Within two years I expect either three engine choices for Lucerne, or the total replacement of the 3800. If the 3800 is going to soldier on, I think it will survive as the base engine for Lacrosse and Grand Prix.
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