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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L: First Drives

landilandi Posts: 44
edited March 19 in Lexus
Is the SWB a good deal or the LWB is a rip-off? I compared the price and features of the two fully loaded versions. The following is the extra equipment the $85,947loaded LWB had over the $68,482 loaded SWB:
Pre-Collision and Dynamic Cruise $2,850
Advanced Parking System $700
Air Suspension and VGRS $2,120
Lexus Link $900
Upgraded Leather and headliner (not individually priced)
Rear Seat Upgrade $1,625
If you total all these extra features, you get $8,200 but the price difference between the two cars is $17,500. So for $9,300 I get extra leg room and upgraded leather. Am I missing something or did Lexus mess up the pricing?
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Comments

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Your doing something wrong in your calculations if you have a $17K price differential. A fully loaded SWB car that is comparable to a fully loaded LWB car (excluding the $11K executive 4 seat pckge) will run you to near $77K, not $68K. You need to add that $8200 to the $68,482 to get the difference. The same $10K price difference at the base level continues to exist. In fact it may actually become a tad less, maybe that $9300 you've shown. Go to Edmunds and configure the cars rather than Lexus.com. The latter doesn't have all the features yet or at least it didn't last night when I checked. I haven't checked all that closely on standard features or nit for nit option packages so there is also a possibility that the LWB car has something not available or included on the SWB car.

    In the long run the value of the choice you make will matter more if you buy than if you lease - IMO. I think over time you will see Lexus make more and more LWB cars and less and less SWB cars. The market will move on you in the future. So if you buy, than the chance is greater that the LWB LS car will hold it's value as a percentage of MSRP at a higher percentage rate than a SWB car. If you lease then the risk is on Lexus or the bank so you don't care. If you are leasing you'll only pay about 40% of that $9300-10,000 difference over three years.

    Beyond all that it's a matter of taste. The LWB car will ride better and have the added space and a higher luxury feel than a SWB car. The car also looks better to my eyes in LWB trim.

    BTW - I would say the SWB car fully loaded is a great deal vs the expiring LS430 ultra. Add pre collision to that ultra and your near $75K vs $77K for this very updated car with 102 more horses + all the other goodies that it has over the LS430. The big difference is in reality though as that car would have been discounted a lot in the past two years and this one will not be discounted at all at first and then at a lot lower levels in the future.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    How about renaming the other 2007 LS board as 2007 pre-release date discussuion and this one as just the 2007 LS 460 and 460L board now that the car is finally here. The board that is the current LS board probably should be renamed 2001-2006 LS so that whoever has that car can discuss it without dealing with the remodelled car. I think the names as they are now will be confusing to new folks and people will post all over the place rather than on one pre-defined board for the 2007 car. As this 2007 car goes to market this week there'll be lots of discussions and possibly new posters on it once people start to drive and experience the car.
  • OK - thanks for the info. I've re-titled existing discussions to make more sense. Feel free to start new '07 LS-related discussions that you think might be interesting!

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • landilandi Posts: 44
    You are right, the Edmond.com pricing for the $68,500 car on the Lexus site is about $3,500 more. Why do you think the Lexus site is not correct? Also in my example, I shouldn’t have called the $68,500 SWB loaded but in my zip code it is as high as I could go on the Lexus site. My guess is the lease payment on the $86,000 car would be about $1,250 and for the $68,500 car would be about $1,000 so you are right might as well get the LWB. But how much more is the 600 at about $100,000 the lease payment would be about $1,450. I love leasing it makes poor guys look like rich guys! ;)
  • barrynsbarryns Posts: 13
    Lexus dealer called me today to tell me had had two cars that had just come off the truck. Were still not detailed and cleaned up but available to look at. Went out there and he had 460 and 460L both fully loaded except for the executive package. Needless to say they were very nice. But the reason I wrote this note was to give some hope that cars would be available. He told me he had 15 deposits and no definate known cars coming in except those that had been ordered for specfic customers. However these two were available because they didn't match the color combinations ordered. He said others could still come in that are not accounted for. Also felt a special order could be filled in 6-8 weeks. Unveiling at this shop will be on the 27th after which I'll be able to sign out the car and drive it.
  • barrynsbarryns Posts: 13
    I spent hours doing a direct comparison with the Lexus site and Edmunds. Even though they present the information differently, the prices came out exactly the same.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Barry - The only option packages on Lexus.com when you build the car are two lux package variants. I hope they fix that to include all the option choices soon as otherwise you need to go to the price and options tab and build the car manually on paper. Given the build site then links to payment estimator the whole process is so much better automated, People will be going there instead of the price and options tab and will miss all of the variations Lexus now allows. The payment estimator tab is good but it tends to be high vs prices I've gotten - even if you put in an estimated down payment to compensate for a discount you think you can negotiate.

    Landi - If I were buying the LS460L I'd configure the car with pre collison, luxury, ML, air sus, lux rear , and the park assist sensors for $84,120. My guess is that's a $1350-1375 lease (zero down) now and about $100-125 cheaper 7-8 months from now. The other way I'd go is the touring package with ML, pre collision, and the park assist sensors and that's $80,580. Why you can't get rear lux with that is beyond me. I'd like the rear shades as I'd likely opt for a rear headrest DVD system for $1600 or so locally. Since Lexus doesn't change headrests you can put that DVD system in your next leased LS if you stay loyal. My guess on that car is $1250-1275 now and possibly $50-75 cheaper later as I have a feeling this car will stay at or vey close to MSRP for a long time to come. If you option out an LS460 to $72-73K my guess is you are at $1125 or so now and $1050 or so later. My thought is that Lexus and financial institutions will residualize the LWB car at better rates than the SWB car. Just a feeling.

    A fully optioned LS460L reaches $97K wuth the executive class limo package. But that's a special order car. At my dealership there are already a number of them spoken for though - so people aren't balking at mid 90K prices. I'd have to say that the LS600HL will likely top out in the $112K range with that option included and probably starts out at that $90K pricetag we were thinking earlier.

    Last issue is the $2850 pre-collision option. Will Lexus tend to ship cars pretty much with it or without it. I'd think that with the investment they put into it they'll tend to bring more cars with it than without it to dealer lots - particularly on LWB models. I'm also quite surprised that the self parking feature is only an added $700. So it may be more standardized into shipped cars also.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,256
    Yes Len. I was very much surprised that what seems to be a rather sophisticated option is only $700.

    By the way, it seems to me like this will now be the most popular board to discuss the new LS.
  • barrynsbarryns Posts: 13
    I think it is a mistake to split apart the forums related to the 2007 LS460 Series. I think that all those that are here are interested in any subject related including style, drive, defects, recalls, problems, How to's, etc. etc. The value of any one forum will decrease significantly. I doubt that anybody is here only to focus on one subect such as first drive, etc. That is too limited. In order to see what is going on with this car, everybody is going to have to jump from forum to forum to get all the information. And what about the posts that are put on the wrong forum. With such limited breadth of subject, the moderators will be kept increasingly busy switching posts from one forumn to another
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I also think there should be just one ongoing forum or maybe two if there's a need to keep the LS600 hybrid discussion apart. I was wondering what happened to the posts of landi and I the other day and then saw that new board created with the posts moved. I can see closure of the old 2007 LS board as a read only board but only because it was filled with speculation about prices and other things prior to release info and now we are in real time mode with the release info and the car arriving in dealer lots. That type of move differentiates better the pre release and post release LS news and opinions for new readers. But it's not a necessity.
  • barrynsbarryns Posts: 13
    Not a problem having too much information on the forum. Posts will always be current. Won't be any new posts on price speculation so subject will go away by itself. Users will read and search out what interests them.

    Just to reiterate, I think there should be one forum for the 2007- ? 460 until the model is updated. Concur that the LS 600H might need a separate forum as a lot of the info will not be useable by the 460 group.
  • This conversation has been ongoing in the Forums Software discussion. Instead of spreading it out, please take any organizational questions there. Thanks!

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,256
    I had the same complaints yesterday but I was told it was no-no.
  • Well any new info? The TV teaser ads are airing now...
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Well the two things left to figure out are when AWD comes available and what that LS600HL will price at. I'm on it. Unfortunately I'm travelling on business and am missing the debut at my dealership this week.
  • Here's an apples-to-apples (well, almost) comparison between the SWB and LWB from the Lexus site:

    SWB base $61000
    Comfort Plus pkg $3620
    Nav system/ML audio pkg $5645
    Power door & trunk closers $395
    TOTAL $70660

    LWB base $71000
    ML audio $2530
    Luxury pkg $2780
    TOTAL $76310

    These two configurations are as close to the same car as you can get. The $5650 difference buys you 4.8 inches plus premium interior leather and headliner.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Of course, ALL the LS models can always be discussed on the HELM forum, and they can be compared to other vehicles as well. ;)

    TagMan
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,256
    Wouldn't you also get a better overall ride with the LWB as well?
  • "Wouldn't you also get a better overall ride with the LWB as well?"

    If you were to drive the cars one right after the other on certain road conditions you may be able to discern a slight ride difference. But I doubt it will be the main reason people will buy one over a SWB, just as the 1 MPG better fuel rating will not chase many people from the LWB to the SWB.

    We buy with our heart, but we justify with our head.
  • ..."We buy with our heart, but we justify with our head."

    and in that order.
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