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Lincoln LS Starting/Stalling

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,691
    I thought there was another strap that Ford added later somewhere in the trunk.
  • sounds like a fuel pump relay with the delayed starting/ hard to start....
  • The symptoms: The car sat for six months. I connected the battery. It would turn over but not start. I sprayed some starting fluid and it started. Occasionally, I would have to use starting fluid to start it. I thought it was old fuel working its way through. Now, It won't start. The fluid starts it for two seconds and then dead. I noticed the battery is low, so I charged it. Same thing with the starting fluid. Two seconds and dead.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,872
    Well after 6 months you probably have rotten gas, but I can't say for sure. You might check for fuel flow from the fuel pump by either disconnecting a line or by installing a fuel pressure gauge.

    If you do have fuel flow but won't start without starting fluid, then either it is indeed rotten gas or your fuel injectors are not getting a pulse. In that case, you'll need to buy an inexpensive "NOID" light and test for fuel injector pulse from the car's computer system.

    MODERATOR

  • carlessinphxcarlessinphx Posts: 3
    edited October 2012
    I fixed it. It was the primary fuel pump. I started with the filter, but no gas was going to the filter. And I couldn't hear the sweet hum of the pump.
    Ford/Jaguar was nice enough, in this case, to locate access under the passenger's side rear seat. It comes up. Look for two tabs under the front crease. Slide them and the seat comes up. Slide the backseat to the side. Lift up the vinyl and you will see a 6 inch rubber Tab. Remove that and there is the top of the fuel pump case. Before you proceed, go to Auto Zone and buy the new fuel pump. It will have instruction on how to swap it out. Good luck with those fuel line connectors. They are a beoch. Also, I used a hammer and a 3/4" piece of pvc pipe to remove the ring at the top. If you have a better idea, please post.
    Buy the pump at Auto Zone, because it includes the two sump filters. O'Reily wants to charge you extra for them.
    Some articles say there are two fuel filters in the LS. Actually there are three. Two in the tank and one behind the driver's side tire.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,872
    I'd get rid of that gas, or at least swap out the fuel filter pronto and add fresh fuel immediately.

    MODERATOR

  • I drove the car all night. It's like its new. No more missing. No more engine light. Everyone should swap out their old fuel pump, just for fun.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,872
    Ah, the proactive stance!

    But change the filter, just for laughs.

    MODERATOR

  • Hi All!
    I've been away for a while, but happy to see some of the original members from the beginning still here.

    2000 Lincoln LS V8 Sport, 100,000mi, Feb 2000 build date, had since new. I still love this car!

    Searched the forums and couldn't find the following exact symptoms. 2 years ago had a no start event. Starter turns fine, but engine doesn't fire. After 6-8 tries, it fired and started. No gas smell, seemed like it just wasn't getting fuel. Then it runs perfectly, like nothing happened. Good power even at full throttle acceleration.

    Happened a second time about 2 months ago. Then 3 weeks ago. Then 2 weeks ago the battery ran low before it would start. Missed a dentist's appointment that time, it started 30 minutes later. Tried the following to no avail… gas pedal floored; gas pedal jazzed; lock and unlock doors a few times with fob; disconnect and reconnect battery; turn key slowly; turn key fast, start in neutral and park, then it just starts when it feels like it. Connectors on fuel pump under Px rear seat are clean and not corroded. Always happens on a cold start, not when engine is warm.

    No fault codes in the OBD - had a smog test a few weeks ago and they said it was all good.

    Replaced fuel pump relay in trunk with similar fog light relay under hood, but it still did the no start thing, so it's not that. I can't be sure because of other noises, but it seems like the fuel pump doesn't run for the second or two like it should when the key is turned, when I have the problem. I'll peel the seat back so I can hear more clearly next time. I'm suspecting the fuel pump, but I'm bothered by the fact that it runs perfectly at all other times - it's like intermittently the pump isn't getting the signal to turn on. Has anybody out there seen a fuel pump failure in this manner? Any other suggestions? Because it's intermittent, and the dealer is 30 mins away, it's iffy that the problem will happen at the dealer's. I don't want to replace the fuel pump and still have the problem, either.

    I might wire a voltmeter in parallel with the fuel pump to confirm it's getting voltage when the problem happens. Comments or your experiences appreciated.

    Thanks - markls8.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,262
    One of the numerous things I had to replace on my '00 LS (sold a year ago with 128K miles on it) was the fuel pump. That's what it sounds like to me.

    Good luck.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,691
    Aren't there 2 fuel pumps? That's what it sounds like.
  • Ah- replies from two other charter forum members, it's been years and I remember both of you guys, akirby and cdnpinhead, nice to hear from you both. Sorry to hear you sold yours, cdnpinhead, it's the last performance vehicle Lincoln put out, everything else is FWD... so what's in your stable now?

    I think the Px side pump is the main pump to the engine, and the other one pumps fuel from the driver's side to the Px side of the fuel tank (“jet” pump). There might be a third under the hood, IIRC.

    It's the main pump that doesn't run for a second when the key is turned (when it should), I can hear it run and predict that the car will start, and when I can't hear it run, I know the car won't be starting. So I can now tell whether it will be starting or not without engaging the starter and using the battery unnecessarily.

    The voltmeter idea didn't work, presumably because the switching is done through the grounds on these cars.

    I've made arrangements to have the car towed when it's in a no-start condition for diagnosis. The owner of the garage once owned a 2001 LS and worked at a Ford dealership for a while and seems confident he can locate the problem point.

    Thanks for your replies, if others have replaced theirs and it solved the problem, that makes it more likely that mine will be the same, will let you know what happens, should know within a couple of weeks, it's more frequent now. (Yeah, right when we got hit by a snowstorm).

    -Brian.

    *My biggest regret – not having put more effort into making the trip for the Wixom plant tour.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,262
    "Sorry to hear you sold yours, cdnpinhead, it's the last performance vehicle Lincoln put out, everything else is FWD... so what's in your stable now?"

    I've been driving an Acura TSX for over five years now, and it's got ~81K miles on it. All I've done to it is replace the battery. It's got a great manual transmission and all the power I need; it would be perfect if it drove the other pair of wheels. I didn't drive the LS much the last four years I owned it and had to take care of quite a few little things before I could sell it.

    Either way, the LS was my one and only venture into an American-made car. Glad yours is still treating you (mostly) well.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,691
    I traded my LS for a 3.0L Fusion back in 2005. I traded it for a 2013 2.0LEB Fusion Titanium back in February. I did enjoy the handling on the LS but honestly the 2006 Fusion was pretty close in normal everyday driving and it had more back seat room. The 2013 is head and shoulders above the 2006 and has more power than my LS and far more luxury and features.

    Rumor has it Lincoln may have something based on the new mustang platform. Guess we'll see what gets announced during the auto show season.
  • I have been having the same exact problem with my 02 ls. My boyfriend and I concluded its the fuel pump, but we dont want to purchase the fuel pump, if there is an another problem. Let me know how it turns out! Very curious as to what this problem is. I used to have a 96 plymouth breeze and after driving the car around for a bit it would putter out then not start again. That was definitely the fuel pump. But what is strange is that it ignites when It feels like it. Similarly, I wiggled shifter gave a couple good whacks to the side of shifter console, unlock the doors a couple times and it will start. Purchased 8 months ago back in spring, no starting problems, now like you said with cold starts the ls is having a mind of its own. Its frustrating to say the least. Just had to replace the starter a month back too.
  • It was the fuel pump.

    A voltmeter won't be useful for diagnosing the problem – because of the switching to ground configuration of the electrics a test light is needed. I attached safety pins to the test light leads and pushed them into the two (heavier) wires leading to the connector at the pump, under px rear seat. After several tries the light went on, and the pump didn't run, so I knew it had to be the pump, and I ordered and installed a new one (aftermarket $200 – the Ford part was $575).

    The aftermarket installed fine and has a 1 yr warrantee. My gas tank was nearly full, so I used dishwashing rubber gloves, but to make things easier wait until the tank is near empty to do it. I was happy to inspect the tank bottom and find it clean, not a trace of phase-separated ethanol. But premium gas here has only recently started to contain ethanol. There was likely some very find sediment, but I didn't want to disturb that. If anyone wants more details on the diagnosis and install ask now, because I'll have forgotten in a week. I'll check back, but the website has been giving me issues, very slow page loads etc.

    Runs like a charm now, full throttle manifold resonance is music to my ears!

  • So I took the old fuel pump assembly apart. I found, to my amazement, that the fuel is actually pumped through the motor, right over the carbon brushes and commutators, and around the rotor and bearings (presumably for cooling, and to quench the sparks), and then on its way to the engine. I was not previously aware that the electrics themselves were immersed in gas, I expected that these would be sealed away from the fuel, but this was clearly not the design.

    The two carbon brushes still had lots of length in them, but there were 1/32” or so grooves worn into the copper commutator contacts (which are oriented axially, instead of the more traditional radial arrangement, giving the motor a slimmer profile). Note that the motor/pump is staked and swaged on assembly, so I had to sawcut the heavy steel case to find this out- you would not be able to make a repair to this.

    My scientific wild a$$ guess is that the brushes might have gotten caught on an edge of the copper, where it “makes and breaks” contact depending on where it stopped when it was shut down. Repeated starting attempts jog it back and forth slightly until it frees itself, until the next shut down.

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