Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Ford Edge Too Heavy? How's the Handling?

2

Comments

  • "A loaded Edge is over 4500 lbs"

    By comparison, I own an '05 F150 2WD short-bed, and it is 4615 lbs empty. That F150 is the latest version, and its beefy, so the smaller edge approaching that is incredible. And, an engineering degree helps a lot. I've got two, and I can tell you its usefull to be accurate in describing the way the world really works. Many Car & Driver staff members have one, and they use it. Edmunds.com people are not dummies, but its hard to compete with Car&Driver with all their superior experience.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    A loaded Edge is over 4500 lbs

    No it's not! Where do they get this stuff? Here are the curb weights directly from the Ford website:

    Curb weight

    FWD 4073
    AWD 4282

    And I don't know for sure whether the Murano is quicker, but I do know you can't use test results from a different test 3 weeks ago, much less 3 years ago. Until they're tested at the same time by the same people it's not a valid comparison.
  • Check CarandDriver's recent test of a loaded AWD Edge (the likely typical configuration for buyers). It's over 4500 lbs. Face it--very few dealers will order the lighter 2WD Edges (less profit, buyers want AWD). The unibody Edge should be at least 250 lbs lighter.......I'm not saying the Edge is a bad vehicle. I merely suggest that buyers in this category aren't looking for a heavy beast. The Murano is a success because its advertising campaign stresses light-on-its-feet nimbleness.........Add 4 passengers and cargo and the Edge's superb engine is gonna strain itself, to be sure.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    Yeah, buyers ALWAYS look at curb weights before buying a vehicle. "Oh wow - this is a really great vehicle but it weighs 200 lbs more than it should." How silly.

    The extra weight comes from the huge vista roof, an option that not everyone will get. We'll just have to wait for a head to head comparison to answer the question. Right now you're just speculating (or hoping and praying).
  • akirby,
    Weight affects performance, obviously. You are right, though, that some buyers may be ignorant. One need only look at fuel economy, acceleration, braking, and turning (skidpad, agility) to get the picture. Some people buy a car because it comes in their favorite color. Others are more analytical. By the way, the Lincoln MKX (Edge clone) AWD version is 4616 lbs (Car&Driver), exactly 1 lb heavier than my F150. The Edge may be ~100 lbs less than an MKX, putting it at about 4500 lbs or so.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    Several, I mean article after article are saying things like the following (taken from where else but an Edmunds article):

    "Driving dynamics should be considered a strong point for the Edge. It has standard Ford steering, meaning accurate and communicative, and the ride/handling balance is about perfect for the target customer (I'd personally prefer a bit stiffer suspension settings, but most buyers will like the tuning). Acceleration is also strong, if not class leading."

    We've seen the following weight comparison:

    A BMW X3 curb weight is 4,012 - with a 3l engine.
    A Subaru Tribeca is 4,210 - with a 3l engine.
    A Honda Pilot weighs 4,453 - with a 3.5l engine.
    A BMW X5 weighs 4,696 lbs - with a 3l engine.
    A Volkswagon Taureg weighs 5,086 lbs - with a 3.2l V6.

    We've heard that it out accelerates and handles just like a Murano. So tell me, concretely, why do you care about the weight. If the vehicle is faster than its compeition and handles just like them, do you really care? Can't we find something else to try and bash this vehicle about because this is ridiculous. A Merc S-Class is a maybe 4,000 - 5,000 pound vehicle that beats everything that is relavant 0-60 and handles with the best of them. I have yet to hear about its weight being an issue. This is what we call a non-issue.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    It doesn't have a manumatic. Now that is a draw back. See I can be nice at times too. :)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    That's exactly my point - weight by itself means nothing. The proof is in the performance and we haven't seen any head to head tests with the Murano (but I'm sure it's coming). Then we can discuss it.

    I do find it interesting that every other review on the Edge seems different than the MT review. That has to tell you something.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    Quote Csaba Csere in Dec. C&D: "But why does (the Edge) weigh 600 more pounds than a Toyota Highlander and even more than Ford's bigger and roomier Freestyle? That excess poundage compromises the fuel efficiency and performance we expected from the Duratec 3.5-liter V-6 and six-speed automatic. And that's what crossovers are all about."
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    They didn't do any instrumented testing - it was just a preview. And other reviewers who have done the same test drive had a different opinion.

    I'm not saying it's not heavy - it is. But the question is how does it perform, and we haven't seen a thorough test yet. Wait and see. If it doesn't perform adequately for it's class then you can complain.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    They certainly did do instrumented testing. It is a five page article, not a "preview".
  • Yes, CarandDriver's Edge test was a full instrumented test, not a preview.....for a vehicle based on the nimble Mazda6, I was expecting a curb weight at 3900-4100 lbs.......akirby is right--not many people consider curb weight when purchasing a car. But they DO consider the EFFECTS of a curb weight, namely in driving dynamics, acceleration, and fuel economy. The Edge performs well on its own; but add passengers and cargo and it might be a different story. That's why people are complaining about the 500/Montego's engine--it works fine on paper, with only the driver. But load it up and the thing wheezes for breath.......CarandDriver only got 15-16mpg in its Edge test (sole driver, full gas tank). Real-world mileage (with passengers and cargo) will likely be worse.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    "driving dynamics, acceleration, and fuel economy":
    From the article at Edmunds:
    "Driving dynamics should be considered a strong point for the Edge. It has standard Ford steering, meaning accurate and communicative, and the ride/handling balance is about perfect for the target customer (I'd personally prefer a bit stiffer suspension settings, but most buyers will like the tuning). Acceleration is also strong, if not class leading."

    So what in the world are you talking about? Several publications have shown that the acceleration is quite brisk. The other Edmunds review said that acceleration should be in the high 7s which is near the front of CUVs. Also said that the Edge handles like the Murano. THE ONLY REVIEW, that has said something starkly different is from MT. And as I have said before are they God now where though they say something different to everyone else, they should be listened to and everyone else rejected?

    CarandDriver only got 15-16mpg in its Edge test (sole driver, full gas tank). Real-world mileage (with passengers and cargo) will likely be worse.

    You've got that backwards. MANY MANY MANY reviewers even state in their test drives that fuel mileage improves in the real world because in the real world, people aren't seeing how fast the car can accelerate 0 - 60, over and over again. Or seeing what it feels like and sounds like at excessive speeds. These things decrease mpg and the real world should be much better.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    I don't know what the mileage figures are for the FWD EDge, but they should be better than for the AWD. of course, real world figures are always lower. I am sure the EDge is a bit sturdier feeling than the Freestyle as the weight might indicate. Also, the Edge has better tires than the Freestyle which is a bit under-rubbered. The FWD Edge is a few hundred pounds lighter than the AWD and doesn't have the additional power robbing friction of the AWD elements. A well-equipped FWD Edge can be had for under $30,000. Unless you "need" AWD to climb snowy slops, go with FWD- it's less expensive, peppier, has better mileage, and probably will be more reliable. But i doubt that you'll find many on lots. A factory order will be necessary like we did for our FWD Limited Freestyle.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    I own a Freestyle, but to me, the Edge and Freestyle are not in competition with eachother. The Edge is more sporty and designed to go in competition with something like the Honda CRV, and before you say that's the job of the Escape, the Escape is more known for off-road, while the Edge is not. If people want off-road SUV, they can go with the Escape or Explorer, and if they want an on-road CUV, they can go with the Edge or Freestyle.

    People buying the Freestyle are those who have a real need for carrying people in the 3rd row...more an alternative to a minivan, while those who are looking for a 5 passenger CUV are looking for something roomy and practical but sporty. The fact that the Edge is pretty big for a 5 passenger CUV doesn't matter as long as the performance, safety, handling and MPG are all competitive.
  • "Quote Csaba Csere in Dec. C&D: "But why does (the Edge) weigh 600 more pounds than a Toyota Highlander and even more than Ford's bigger and roomier Freestyle? That excess poundage compromises the fuel efficiency and performance we expected from the Duratec 3.5-liter V-6 and six-speed automatic. And that's what crossovers are all about."

    Csaba is right. He is saying what I've tried. The Edge is not quite great engineering. Engineering goals:
    1. Minimize weight.
    2. Maximize stiffness and crash protection.
    3. Maximize fuel economy.
    4. Maximize ride comfort.
    5. Maximize roll stiffness (handling, skidpad values).
    6. Minimize noise.
    7. Maximize acceleration.
    8. Maximize roominess.
    When you shop for vehicles, rank each of the 8 for every vehicle compared. Then, reflect your own interests by weighting each as "I care" or "I don't care", a number from 1 to 10, you get the idea, since, for example, some people don't care a hoot about fuel economy.
    A great vehicle body will show structural optimization by beating the competition in #1 and #2 above. Thats why the Edge is suspect, as its heavy without benefit.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    Csaba is not omnipotent. Everything is a tradeoff. The tradeoff for the extra weight is probably increased crash protection and a smoother ride. It's not a sports car and the ride and handling and acceleration seem quite balanced and adequate according to other reports.
  • I didn't know Csaba wasn't omnipotent. I had better get his statue out of my living room... Good thing you mentioned that. ;) Its true if the crash protection is high, it may be worth the extra weight, but probably not. Does the lighter Freestyle's weight ruin its crash tests? No. There might be a way to explain (partially) why some vehicles are oddly heavy for their size, like the Edge. I've made observations of the structure of extra-heavy vehicles containing mostly simple shapes and constant thickness sheet metal in many places. By constructing part sections with optimal ripples, stiffness and strength go up for the same mass. This requires extra effort in engineering and also drives up the cost of manufacturing.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    I don't know where the extra weight came from - just guessing. Engineers make hundreds of individual decisions and tradeoffs that affect weight and it's impossible to say it's one thing or another.

    The question is how it handles and rides and the fuel economy and we need more testing to really figure that out.
  • Fuel economy figures are in. The Edge doesn't do that bad, although not that great either. As much as I've bashed the Edge as being mediocre, it would not be a complete waste of money. The braking performance isn't good. The vista roof is cool. Buy the Edge based on its looks, as you can do better elsewhere on fuel economy and other performance factors if thats important.
  • MT was pretty harsh with the Edge, unnecessarily so I think. Weight (and the resulting "ponderousness") was a big factor in their opinion. IMO, I don't think it's fair to put so much pressure on the vehicle. Many have said the Edge will make or break Ford; it's just not fair. the Edge is NOT the equivalent of the 1984 Chrysler minivan or the 1986 Taurus......but it does appear that the vehicle's weight is drawing criticism from the traditional media.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,630
    don't forge those are 'epa' numbers. some vehicles try to optimize those tests. i don't know if the edge is one of them , but i doubt it.
  • I know people criticize the EPA MPG numbers. My Freestyle 2WD model nails those EPA 20/27 MPG numbers exactly. Highway driving gives me between 25 to 28 mpg. I think its a good test/rating method.
  • arumagearumage Posts: 922
    It depends on how much heavy your foot is and environmental variables like temperature and altitude (going up and down).

    All those curb weights on the Edge in those magazine articles include that panaramic moonroof which adds 200 lbs. to the roof. I would think that would effect handling, making the vehicle a bit more top heavy. Roll stability might kick in to hurt those performance numbers.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,630
    what i am saying is that i don't think ford really tries to fudge the numbers if they don't have to pay any fines.
    i have 4 fords. they all get epa or better mileage, unless my leadfoot daughter is city driving. :surprise:
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    Edmunds full review of the edge was not promising...

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=117551

    This part really looks bad....

    "The Edge is fitted with four-wheel disc brakes and four-channel ABS. The problem is the brakes are not ventilated and need to slow some 4,500 pounds of hurtling metal. The result was a hair-raising 152-foot stop from 60 mph. To put that uninspiring distance into perspective, the 7,550-pound Ford F-350 Super Duty 4x4 recorded a 142-foot stop in a recent heavy-duty truck comparison test. Obviously, Ford will need to address this shortcoming soon."

    Here is the summary:

    "We began this test with high hopes from the handsome newcomer. Ford needs this vehicle. Ford wants you to want this vehicle. But it's hard to make a compelling argument for the Edge when compared to traditionally styled stalwarts like the Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander, or even Ford's own Explorer. Size, price and capabilities of the Edge are, at best, on par with those vehicles.

    It gets even harder to defend the Edge when it's compared to the Hyundai Santa Fe, Mazda CX-7 or Toyota RAV4. Each is less expensive, more fun to drive and generally more fuel-efficient.

    Although we like Ford's newest crossover, the edgiest thing about it turns out to be its name."
  • One should remember that this review is the opinion of only one person. There have been reviews of the upcoming Edge that have been much more favorable. I think if this particular reporter had been given a base model to review, he would have been more favorably impressed.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    "The Edge is fitted with four-wheel disc brakes and four-channel ABS. The problem is the brakes are not ventilated and need to slow some 4,500 pounds of hurtling metal."

    Please be advised that this statement IS NOT CORRECT. While the preproduction Edges driven by Edmunds may not have had vented rear discs, Ford decided to change to VENTED ROTORS front AND REAR for all regular production EDGES.

    The EDGE you buy at a dealer will have 4 VENTED ROTORS.

    One battle the bean counters LOST!

    Mark.
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    I hope you are right and Ford has fixed the braking problem that both Edmunds and CarAndDriver found.

    I like the Edge, but I have decided to keep my Mariner for another year and see if the Edge is reliable and has the braking problem fixed... ( Also is it likely that there will be rebates by this time next year... )
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This is to everyone out there who is considering buying a new car. In the past, US automakers made 2 many cars. Because of UAW rules and non-modern plants that were not flexible, it was cheaper for the company to put out a big rebate to sell more vehicles than to idle the factory.

    NOW, the automakers are making less vehicles, at fewer plants that are upgraded to allow production to reflect demand.

    In addition, thanks to internet shopping, Manufacturers are LOWERING the MSRP on vehicles to be closer to the final transaction cost in the past.

    Fords latest car models, the Fusion, 500, and Mustang never had significant rebates until well into the next model years selling season.

    Even the new Explorer hsd not has the huge rebates it had in the past.

    The best deals are usually in August.

    Mark.
2
This discussion has been closed.