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Ford Edge Predicted and Actual Reliability

ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
In case I might be repeating myself from addressing this same concern on another board...

The Ford 500/Mtg/FS were rated top in intial quality in their segment. Those newly designed vehicles were built in a newly remodeled flexible factory and were able to acheive that accolade.

During the same time, The Ford Mustang also acheived tops in it's segment...a newly redesigned vehicle built in a newly remodeled plant.

The Ford Fusion/Milan/Zephyr have received other accolated for quality as well...

This isn't 1980's, this isn't 1990's, and because a relative had a Taurus with a bad transmission, doesn't mean that same issue will occur with another Ford vehicle today. Yet the haunts of those decades seem to fester on some buyers today, while turning a blind eye that their beloved Oddysey is one of the vehicles with the highest number of recalls to date.

Vehicles in general are 10 times more reliable than they were 20 years ago. Extended powertrain warranties help ease some of those ghosts as it has helped with Hyundai/Kias... (provided the dealership wishes to honor them as many are finding out not to be the case).

All automakers have a component, that they seem to be weak on. No secret about Honda's transmission and A/C compressors...or Toyotas current transmission woes, and engine sludge issue, MBenz' electrical. Ironically many of these components are also used on other automakers, without any issues...such as Aisin Transmissions built by Toyota's supplier which have given Toyota headaches lately, yet the same component found on some Ford's (500/Fusion) have been trouble free.

Let's not forget where we were, how we got here, but most importantly, whats being done to get there, and how. Lessons have been learned, and applied and everyone has moved on.
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Comments

  • ANT, I make similar points to anti- domestic car people all the time. While you're totally right about Ford's quality gains of late, the fact that Ford's overall reputation among the average car buyer is still lower than its imported competition speaks of how damaging the mistakes of the 80's and 90's and before really are. Toyota built a reputation for quality over several decades, which is why they can stumble and people give them a pass. It would take at least 10 solid years of declining quality at Toyota for people to start coming around to the fact that maybe their reputation isn't what it's cracked up to be. Likewise, Ford is going to have to perform as well as or better than the Toyotas and Hondas for at least that long (and probably longer) for people to realize that they are building cars of world class quality.

    The 500, Mustang, and Fusion (and hopefully Edge) prove that Ford can be more than competitive in quality, but then you sit in a Crown Vic and see the cheap plastic trim that is a half inch out of line with the next piece, and you realize that it's going to take a while for Ford to outrun the bad old days, and they aren't going to be given any slack along the way.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    And don't forget that Ford's overall quality rating includes full size trucks which are usually only average in reliability (even for the imports) while Honda doesn't even have a full size of body on frame truck. I really think they should separate cars and trucks for that reason.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    but then you sit in a Crown Vic and see the cheap plastic trim that is a half inch out of line with the next piece, and you realize that it's going to take a while for Ford to outrun the bad old days, and they aren't going to be given any slack along the way.


    That's a bad example. If you're sitting in a Crown Vic you're buying a Crown Vic because there is no competitor to that thing. If you're comparing a newer Ford model, like the Fusion or Edge, to an import you're going to have to look hard to find the differences. Sure, personal preference in design, look, and feel will ultimately make your decision for you but Ford needs to get you in the showroom first before that can happen. That is the hard part IMO. The products will speak for themselves.
  • The point is, the quality issues aren't decades in the past, and for some people they need to be before changing their minds. If there are still cars on Ford's lots like the Crown Vic and Ranger with yesterday's technology and craftsmanship, then that's an indicator that they have more work to do. Also, it's not just about a lack of competition; I drove a Ford Freestar back to back with a Toyota Sienna and I was embarassed for Ford. The Ford wasn't even in the same league. Needless to say, I bought the Sienna.

    I'm a Ford fan and know a lot of other Ford fans, and many of them aren't giving Ford another chance on their next car because they got burned on their curernt one. All the great press in the world isn't going to make someone take that kind of a chance. I realize annecdotal examples don't speak to the big picture, but my best friend has an '03 Expedition, and it's an amazing piece of junk. The day he drove it home he noticed that the plastic moulding behind one of his rear tires was melting. The exhaust pipe was mounted incorrectly and it was discharging exhaust straignt into the back of the moulding. He also had a plastic trim piece at the base of the windshield that was flapping in the wind. The metal piece that holds the trim was welded a good 2 inches out of position. To make a long story short, the last few years haven't been any better. The thing rattles and squeaks over every single bump as if it's 20 years old. I showed him the good press the 07 Expedition was getting, and he seemed reasonably interested, but his wife said "Are you insane? These things are total junk; I'd never buy another one." You can't blame people for feeling this way even if Ford has gotten rid of the problems they are complaining about. Ford is going to have to earn people like that over the long haul. The 500 and Fusion are great starts, but Ford is going to have to repeat that kind of quality with their next 20 launches in order for people to start coming around. Here's to hoping they do; I have my eye on that Edge. ;)
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    I hear what you're saying but the average Joe, i.e. the majority of vehicle shoppers, isn't goint to notice that Ranger or Crown Vic. They are there for what they need and that's it. Sure the Ranger and Crown Vic need updated badly, or put to rest, but they are both gold mines for Ford and people still want them just the way they are.

    Average Joe is going to go in there for his Fusion, Freestyle, Five Hundred, Mustang, Edge, Explorer, Escape, or F Series (all of which have had superbe launches recently save for the Edge) and be pleasantly surprised. That's if Ford can get them in the door first.

    Your friend is a good example. He's been burned but the vehicle has changed dramatically and he needs to go look at it. The new Expedition isn't the same as the old one in any way shape or form.
  • garandmangarandman Posts: 524
    the Edge has one big advantage to counter Ford's past poor management. The competing vehicles range from inoffensive to butt ugly. You've got to be very, very, very loyal to the imports and Ford has to badly mess up the product launch again to choose a Nissan Murano or Subaru Tribeca over an Edge.
  • Well, that's where we differ. My friend doesn't "need" to go look at the new Expedition; Ford didn't earn his repeat business. They will be darned lucky if he sets foot on a Ford lot any time soon. I do agree that their challenge is getting people to consider Ford at all, because once on the lot they will see some competitive offerings. I think a lot of this goes way beyond marketing and advertising; it's simply about building great cars for an extended period of time. Everything else takes care of itself if the product is strong.
  • Does anyone think the new Ford 3.5L V6 (Edge/MKX/CX9) won't have bugs the first year or two?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    It's certainly possible, but I don't think it's likely given that
    a) there's no radical new technology
    b) they took an extra 2 years getting this engine right
    c) Ford's quality record of late on new things is stellar
  • Come on, since when Ford build quality vehicle? People love Ford because at one time in history Ford put North American on the map of the world as a vehicle maker and a good family story line. Both GM and Chrysler have done more for the car industry than Ford. The Minivan and the muscles car is one example. Japanese cars always been like the wall of Troy, impenetrable. Ford has always been a disappointment time and again, and again and again and again and again, get it? So, Ford now has a new play in the play book with the Edge and the New President and all the PR but the goal is the SAME, SELL YOU GARBAGE and make a ton of money doing so. Im a 2 time Ford vehicle owner. You know the old saying "Had me once, had me twice, NOT A 3rd TIME "Ford Looser"".

    Prove when Ford had a car that was a well built as the Japanese, a Honda or a Toyota. Tell me if Ford is so good why they are taking the Volvos and Mazda parts to build they cars like some type of Freakenstain monster that in the end are mediocre at best. And DJ Powers AGREE. Pick ups.... yea good looking... but look at the INNOVATION that HONDA and NISSAN and TOYOTA are putting forward... Ford is taking even the TOYOTA slogan.. "MOVING FORWARD" when they speak. It use to be "Build Tough" now "Bold Moves" and thats just in the 2000s. Ford change they slogan so many times its makes me think on how deeply confuse Ford really is and why try to trick us again with their TV ads guerillas. NOW they want to go and steal candy from Latin America too. But there "if is not a Toyota, is not a car" thats what the slogan is in many Latin America countries.

    About those people that work for Ford, sorry, You work too dam hard to get the reputation you got. Honda and Toyota also build cars in America so dont go begins for a job to Honda or Toyota or Nissan, they are doing very well.

    Also, if you want a good (not great) build vehicle from Ford buy a Lincoln or a Mazda. A lot of people got the point but now they know that they loose there too.

    :mad: Last time I drove a Ford I got booed by Americans I got the finger. I got so irritated once I stop a guy and ask him why he was giving me the finger... he said it was nothing personal he was just expressing how much he hates the car because it was....well a "FORD".

    Not the reaction I get on my HONDA Odyssey! :D

    My neighbor got the Explorer in 7/2006, pressured by her best friend (not us) now is obvious that she more than him, is embarassed about it. Feel sorry for them too.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    Prove when Ford had a car that was a well built as the Japanese, a Honda or a Toyota.

    The 2006 Fusion has a lower defect rate than both the Accord and the Camry. NO recalls. Hardly any TSBs. Very few user reported problems. According to Ford's TGW Global Quality Research System:

    Fusion 1,172 TGWs (things gone wrong)
    Accord 1,353
    Camry 1,193

    Not the reaction I get on my HONDA Odyssey!

    You mean the Odyssey that's had 27 (that's right, 27) recalls since 1997? And 5 in the last 2 years? Sorry but you picked the wrong poster child for import superiority.

    I'm talking about the new products from Ford - the F150, Mustang, Fusion, 500, Edge and their Lincoln/Mercury counterparts that have all been introduced new or significantly updated in the last 3 years. These models are proving extremely reliable - equal to or better than the imports. No argument on some of the older stuff. But it's not 1995 anymore. Even Hyundai has respectable (if not stellar) quality now.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    What planet do you live on? I can't imagine anyone being booed by a stranger because of the car they drove, and Explorers are everywhere. Strange post.
  • I believe raf said he lived on the planet Troll. Strangely, that somehow seemed appropriate.
  • fordenvyfordenvy Posts: 72
    He is just another reason I believe half of the people on this planet are blind with ignorance. I hate opinions without any research backing it. And Bob is right about the Fusion and counter-parts are better quality than the Camry and Accord.
  • svofan2svofan2 Posts: 440
    I am going to give you the "proverbial" 0.02 cents on this matter ...I am ready to buy a CUV and I was undecided between the EDGE and the MAZDA CX 9..both good vehicles in my opinion,of course the CX 9 being a higher price. I subscribed to different groups MAZDA and FORD EDGE and what I am noticing is that the MAZDA CX 9 forums are reporting more "dissapointments" (small ones) than the people in the EDGE forums. This made me think in the price differences on both vehicles fully loaded (about $3500 difference). Again for the price, it seems that FORD's EDGE is a winner hands down.I have not followed the others like the ENCLAVE (dealers believe that they have a "HOT" item..very little negotiations,if any)..Saturn(with their "famous" no haggling policy) and GMC (they also think that they have the vehicle for the second coming of CHRIST ,not trying to be irreverent),so that leaves me back to the EDGE,which incidentally you can hardly find any 2007 they way I want it, so I will wait another 30 or 60 ddays for the 2008 which is coming much better equip (they way I like it).
    Sorry for the long posting..
  • I have been driving Fords for over forty years and I have had very good service with every one of them.I have a 96 Aerostar with well over 100,000 miles on. This vehicle has never had a tune up, original spark, wires, etc. Never had a problem with it. It run like a new one, not one time has it ever failed me, and its still solid and trouble free and I have had it for over ten years. There is no way that I would trade any of my Ford's for a rice burner. I also have a 2003 Ford Super Duty turbo diesel, great truck, lot of power, well built, not bad on fuel either, better than any stinken Tundra.
  • Great article, how true it is. No manufacture is perfect. I have been driving Fords for over forty years, and they have been good to me.I hope Ford gets through this and gets back on top.No rice burners for me.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    I feel some of the interior trim pieces are very cheap and barely screwed down. Especially around the door openings.

    If you sat in a Fusion then went and sat in a Edge, the Edge feels like a step down.

    Mark.
  • Mustang Andy,

    Sorry, but you touched a nerve with me. For a little background. I grew up in Detroit and the suburbs. I STILL own an 85 Mustang GT that I bought NEW when I was 18. That being said.

    I had never owned a "rice burner" until I got the Mustang re painted and wanted to buy a "winter beater" and garage the mustang. I ended up buying a 90' Toyota Celica GT with over 115,000 miles on it ( I thought it was a Ford Probe when I drove buy the dealership). When I got the car which was now 13 years old everything on it WORKED. It was fully loaded and all the backlighting, controls, power windows, sunroof etc. all WORKED! The car drove flawlessly and got over 30mpg and looked nice too. I ended up keeping the Celica and garaged the Mustang. I drove the Celica until it had over 190,000 miles on it and sold it to a friend who is still driving it. I have had two friends who have owned a total of 3 Toyota PU trucks with over 250K miles each on them.

    When it came time for me to buy a new car I bought a Lexus. I did plenty of research, and Lexus quality was beyond compare IMHO. And I felt comfortable knowing it was made by the same company that made that Toyota Celica. I test drove the Mercedes and was dissapointed to see that apparently they let Chrysler engineers design it.

    I have had the Lexus for over a year now and I plan on giving it to my daughter when she starts driving. The reasons are because: It's SAFE, It's Reliable, it will last her all the way through college, and she can actually drive it and afford the insurance and gas.

    BTW on the Lexus owners forum some Lexus users even go so far as to claim that they would only buy a vehicle MADE in JAPAN. They claim to have bought American made Acura's, Honda's and Toyota's, Mazda's etc.. and the quality was not as high as the vehicles actually produced in Japan.

    I served in the Army, and you will be hard pressed to find a bigger patriot, but before some car manufacturer is going to get $30K-$40K from me they better give me an outstanding product. When I was a kids we bought a new Ford Country Squire station wagon that fell apart and ended up in the junkyard after 4 years :lemon: . That won't happen again.

    I don't mind you bragging about Fords, but when you bag on Toyota's it is obviously coming from a position of ignorance as any personal experience or JD powers or Consumer Reports survey will tell you that Lexus and Toyota absolutely SMOKE ANY and ALL US Auto manufacturer. Of course people like me served to defend your right to free speech. I just wish you'd use it more wisely.
  • Here's my take on this topic. Anyone who would spend $3500 more on a vehicle with the same components that is branded differently (eg. the Edge VS the CX9) Probably has had past positive experience with a Japanese MADE vehicle. So, I think that both vehicles are probably IDENTICAL it's just that Buyers who have previously owned a Japanese made vehicle have MUCH higher expectations out of what they perceived to be a Japanese car. Whereas the buyers who bough the Ford Edge are probably thrilled till they're wet in the pants that they bought a Ford (really probably 60% Mazda - all Japanese drivetrain) with only a few minor annoyances. I would bet that many of these people would be oblivious to the sqeaks, rattles, misaligned trim etc... because they have been conditioned by Detroit that this is normal.

    In summary, I just think that the Mazda buyers had higher expectations and when those were not met (by a car made in America) they will voice their frustration. The fact that they paid $3500 more for the same car speaks VOLUMES about the perceived gap in quality between US and Japanese car makers.
  • I should add that the reason I visited this forum (beside being on the payroll of all the foreign auto makers :<} - TIC) is that I am renting a car from a dealership for a roadtrip, and he's out of minivans and I am getting an Edge. I was here to check on reliability, mileage, seating etc... So far I am cautiously optimistic about this car.

    IMHO the only way the Big 3 are going to win customers back is by people having positive experiences with their products. Rent a car from Hertz or Enterprize and fall in love with it while on vacation or business. Have your neighbor constantly tell you how much he loves his (Ford, GM, Chrysler) and how he never takes it to the shop.

    Is their hope for Detroit?? I hope so, but having grown up there, the mentality of the employees, causes me doubt. As far as any of them are concerned they work for the UAW not Ford or GM etc.. Until both groups can get together and set a goal to please their customers instead of their stockholders or union membership, we have not seen the bottom.
  • I thought that I should post a follow up on my rental experience with the Ford Edge. I did enjoy driving the car. It had a very comfortable ride. The vehicle was quiet, and it cruised effortlessly even at 80MPH (so be carefull - you will be going alot faster than you realize if you don't pay attention to the speedo). The mileage was not great (avg about 19-20), but as I mentioned I was driving 75-80 MPH. Down around 60MPH I would expect the mileage to be much better. The car handled well. There were some interior trim issues, and the fit was not anywhere near foreign car quality (this was a design issue, not assembly). But I did have plastic pieces that came off the seat rails etc..( not very impressive).
    Overall I put 1400 miles on this vehicle in one long weekend. It was pleasant to drive. Would I buy one??? I do know how much they cost, but I would be reluctant to part with more than $21K for a vehicle of this caliber new. Given Ford's reputation for quality (or lack thereof) I would pay more for a Toyota or Used Lexus. I'm the kind that keeps cars for a long time, so quality and mechanical reliability are more important to me than style.

    If this car (and the rest of their fleet) proves to be reliable Ford may be on the road to recovery. Let's hope!

    OMG I just saw a profile view of the EDGE on the advertisement on the left side of this page.

    http://www.fordvehicles.com/crossovers/edge/index.asp?SECTION=PHOTO_GALLERY

    The side profile looks IDENTICAL to the Lexus RX330 with the EDGE being perhaps a little squatier. Well, they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. How about imitating that Toyota/Lexus quality?

    http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/rx330/2005/pictures.html#

    Click Here to look at the 2005 Lexus RX330 on Edmunds. Flame me if I'm wrong.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    How about imitating that Toyota/Lexus quality?

    If by that you mean transmission problems, engine sludge, frame cracks, exploding camshafts and folding tailgates - no thanks.
  • jimmy2xjimmy2x Posts: 124
    You may well be right. If I had another 10-12K to spend on a comparably equiped 350, I would probably buy one. Really, I am not taking a shot here, but it seems unfair to compare the Edge to the 350 given the massive price difference. If it was the MKK you were comparing, I could more see your point.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This person has obviously been out of the automotive market for far 2 long.

    Mark.
  • fmichaelfmichael Posts: 95
    ...of smooth driving since my wife, & I brought the Edge home on 8-31-07. Now that we have an 8 week old little guy - we enjoy the spacious cabin, & comfort/safety that it brings us.
  • zekyzeky Posts: 3
    My new 2008 Ford Edge sunroof literally exploded from the inside out while driving down the highway at about 70 mph. The sunroof was closed at the time and there were no other vehicles around my car or overpasses nearby, when the sunroof exploded. The glass blew out from the center of the sunroof, creating a large hole, and all four corners of the sunroof are gone as well. Luckily no one was injured from the incident (from the glass shattering or from the scare of the explosion), and the car was able to be guided to safety. Ford, however, refused to repair the roof, stating that something must have hit the sunroof, therefore, making it our responsibility. Researching this problem I have found many reported cases of sunroof explosions, Ford themselves having similar problems with their Explorer model sunroof from 1991-1994. This was/is a very scary and dangerous situation. I am now leary of my cars safety and security. I caution anyone who is looking at the Ford Edge, not to get the sunroof! I also urge you to consider the fact that Ford, as a company, will not back-up their product.
  • zekyzeky Posts: 3
    I hope you don't have the sunroof, as mine literally exploded from the inside out as I drove down the highway. I am lucky my family wasn't injured in the incident.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    That's the first I've heard of that problem on the Edge or any other Ford product the last several years. If it was a defect it should be showing up more. Glass may crack by itself but it won't "explode" without some force being applied and I don't see where that force would come from just driving down the road. This sounds like it was either previously damaged or something hit it causing the damage. Turn it into your insurance - it's usually covered 100%.

    You'd get the same answer from every other MFR unless there is a pattern of failures.
  • my 2007 Ford Edge had the sunroof explode tonight. My wife was driving home and did not have our two daughters thankfully, but the sunroof exploded and was in shattered pieces. My friend owns a glass company and will look at it and another friend owns the local Ford dealership and hopefully we'll find out what happened. Nothing hit the roof. It just shattered and scared the hell out of my wife. We've had transmission problems, the driver door won't unlock automatically and now this.
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