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Honda Civic GX Engine Questions

gxusergxuser Posts: 9
One of the fuel injectors (#4) on my 2000 GX broke this week at 73k miles. Check engine light flashed and engine ran rough. The last injector (#3) failure was just over a year ago. It is now covered under emission warranty but the warranty is going away soon @80k. Parts and labor cost is expensive - around $800 each at dealer if no warranty. Wonder if this high failure rate is caused by Honda's manufacturing defect or caused by other components or the gas.

I have kept up the maintenance and even changed gas filter a few months ago. Anyone else has injector failing before? Any suggestions to avoid another injector failure?
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Comments

  • I've had a 00 Civic 5 1/2 years now, and my kids have driven the heck out of it, 115K mi, and never more than half a tank away from a refueling station. Luckily, there are several in the Phoeix area on our normal travel routes. I'm a competent mechanic, and have done all of the routine maintenance on the car myself.
    In the past few months, it has developed a stumbling idle. No troubles with injectors (good thing, they're $550 each!), changed the dist cap, rotor, plugs at 100K mi, so I don't think it is ignition. Out of frustration, I took it to a dealer for service, they have one guy who works on GX. He spent one hour (which cost me $100) to tell me that since it had Bosch Platimum plugs instead of the original NGK, that it would require a full tune-up for $450 before he could diagnose the problem. Precisely why I avoid dealer service. Anyway, I'm confident the plugs are not the problem, but still looking. Anyone have info about fuel filter problems limiting gas flow? I've seen in this forum some discussion about both high pressure and low pressure filters, anyone know whether the 00 has both?, and where they are?

    Thanks in advance,
    Jerry
  • Jerry:
    Thanks for all the high mileage GX info.
    I just had the dealer change the high & low pressure CNG filters @ 49,000 miles on my 2001. $352.00
    I was told that Honda will not sell the 2001 & newer a&b cng filters to owners.
    It's a GX dealer approved service item for installation only.
    I don't know about the CNG filters on your 2000 gx.

    I was glad to have the CVT transmission fluid replaced.
    It has made a nice difference in the ride of the car.

    Next week I start driving my GX from OC to Big Bear once a week for the next six weeks. 200+ miles round trip from sea level to 7,000 ft and back.
    I hope I can make it all the way on a full PHILL fill.
    It should be very interesting putting snow chains on a GX. :surprise:
    I'll keep you all advised
    Deon
  • Deon,
    you're right about the dealer not wanting to sell the CNG Fuel filter. They don't outright refuse, but to have them replace it costs $132 (Part + 1 hr labor), and to purchase the parts is $849. I am strongly leaning towards having the dealer do the replacement (duh!).

    Good luck in your weekly runs to Big Bear. I'd rarely get 200 mi range, you must have larger tank(s).
    All the best,
    Jerry
  • Get a OBD2 code reader , the type that can scan in real time,( because the misfire may not be bad enough to store in the computer) and find the cyl. that is misfiring. Don't think it's the fuel filters. Spark plug wires ?, tiny cracks in the coil ?, may be valve clearance too tight. Stick with oem honda parts. Several honda dealers sell on the internet at deep discounts.

    John
  • The Honda Service Manual GX Supplement provides simple instructions for replacing and or servicing the fuel filters. The Maintenance schedules indicate that filter B (low Pressure) should be replaced every 10,000 miles and filter A (high pressure) should only be inspected including drain every 10,000 miles. Both schedules (severe and regular) specify the same procedure.

    Replacing the low pressure filter is similar to replacing an oil filter. The first step is to relieve the fuel pressure between the engine and the manual shut-off valve.

    I hope this does not become a dealer scam to sell both filters every 10,000 miles when the schedule indicates only an inspection of the high pressure filter every 10,000 miles.

    The factory service manuals can be purchased from Helm. The web site is www.helminc.com
  • Hey fbaldwin:
    I love this forum, you guys are the best.
    I have been looking everywhere for the Honda Service Manual GX Supplement. Thanks for the info, I just ordered one.

    Speaking of Dealer scams, my Dealer informed me that they recommend removing the CNG tank @ 40,000 miles to inspect and check for leaks. For only $550.00!
    I know that before I bought the car it had a warranty service to repair a gas leak. And since I don't smell gas I think I'll hold off on that dealer recommendation.

    I did ask the dealer to print out all the warranty repairs Honda had in it's computer for my VIN.

    I bought the car just after the warranty expired. I have most of the original work orders from the previous buyer but it was nice to double check what had been serviced before I bought the car.

    Thanks Again!
    Deon
  • The service of filters must indeed be a scam. When I asked the service adviser about it, at first they said no, we have never had to change a filter. Then they looked at the maintenance schedule and remarked: oh yes, it does say change every 30K miles. I had it changed, in an unsuccessful problem solving attempt, and the service tech said it looke fine. By the way, he is the only CNG tech at this dealer; they have sold hundreds of these, and this was the first filter he changed.

    He again attributed my rough idle to non-OEM parts (I guess Bosch doesn't know how to make Platinum plugs, or automotive spark plug wires). When I was ready to take the plunge and buy the Honda parts, the guy at the parts counter had seen the rough idle problem in the past, and knew it had been fixed by changing the distrubutor base plate. This is the main housing which carries the spindle, and the dist cam sensor. He didn't know whether it was bearing wear causing spindle wobble, sensor position, or sensor failure, but he was pretty sure it would work.

    HE WAS RIGHT! $225 USD later, my rough idle was gone. This was great info from a guy who does not diagnose car trouble, but observed what worked to solve this problem in the past. He also agreed with me that Honda parts makers don't have any proprietary pixie dust to make their parts work better than other equivalent parts from alternate suppliers.

    All the best,
    Jerry
  • The 2005 GX, registered and normally operated, in California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, new York and Vermont has a warranty for 150,000 or 15 years for listed emission parts including fuel injectors (labor included). All other states (Federal) the injectors are covered for 36,000 or 3 years.

    The eight year 80,000 mile warranty covers only the Engine Control Module Module (computer)for the 2005 Federal warranty.

    I do not know what the 2000 warranty covers but It may be worthwhile obtaining a copy of the emissions warranty.

    The staff at the dealer may need to be reminded about the warranty.
  • The GX has two filters. Filter B (low pressure) looks like an oil filter and can be purchased for $120.75 at the dealer. The maintenance schedule indicates to replace it every 10,000 miles! Kind of expensive.

    There was no restriction on over-the-counter sales. But the parts guy had a lot of trouble finding the part in the catalog. I needed to show him the diagram in the Honda Service Supplement. It appears that the dealer staff may not have the best training or expierence.

    Changing this filter requires specific understanding of the GX fuel system and IS NOT simple as changing an oil filter.
  • if it's a close call, open an account with San Bernardino and fill before/after the trip 'up the hill'

    Michael
  • yip_choiyip_choi Posts: 4
    Hi ,

    I am new to this message board, so please bear with me.
    I just purchased a Civic GX from Ebay and received it a month ago. It
    is a 1998 Honda Civic GX model with only 18k on it. However, after I
    drove for a week, the engine light is on. It does not have any
    noticable problem except sometimes the rpm is rough when stop. First,
    I brought it to a local mechanics who called himself as "Honda
    Specialist". He claimed it needs a major tune up (with valve
    adjustment) for $500. If the light is still on, then it needs to
    replace the ECM (The computer) which costs over $800. I told him to
    do the minor tune up but not the valve adjustment which I believe it
    has nothing to do with the engine light on and valve should not be
    adjusted after 100k (not 18k). After minor tune up and he cleared the
    engine light code, it runs fine for a week and then the light is on again.
    Does any of you have the engine light on experience and the car is
    driving totally fine? What is the finding?
    Is there any relationship between the engine light and valve adjustment?
    On the other hand, I did smell some natural gas inside the vehicle
    after parking overnight or days. Is it normal?
    If I want to bring it to Honda dealer, does it requires for CNG
    technicians?

    Please advise.
    Thanks in advance

    William
  • A "too tight " valve was causing misfire at idle and sometimes triggered the check engine light at 22,000 mi on my 01. The dealer adjusted it , no charge.
    As to a "Minor tune up" ,nothing to tune up. Spark plugs on these last 80,000-100,000 miles easy .I would stay away from that shop.
    Bad ecm computer ?, don't think so.
    This vehicle may still be under the federal emissions warranty , or if it is a california car , the california emissions warranty.
    As to the gas smell , you prob. have a very small leak in one of the fittings at the tank in the trunk.

    FBALDWIN is a frequent poster on this board and knows all the emission warranty info.

    If you are in so. cal , or the bay area, you have a choice of several dealers with cert. gx tech's.
  • fbaldwinfbaldwin Posts: 34
    Your GX has has a computer standard called ON BOARD DIAGNOSTIC II (OBD II). The computer frequently runs tests (monitors)to verify that the computer is working properly. If any of the computer sensors are producing data that is not in specifications which would cause the emissions to exceed 1.5 the Federal Test Procedure. The "check engine" light is turned to on.

    It is very rare for the computer (ECM or PCM)to fail! It is well protected from damage. The computer sensors or wiring are more likely to fail because of the environment they operate. A trained technician will have a computer "scanner" that can read any stored codes and the data that is produced by the sensors. This would only be the first step in diagnosing any problem with the OBDII system. A specific trouble code will direct the mechanic to a problem area for further diagnoses.

    In the late 60's and 70's technicians performed a "tune up" which included replacing the spark plugs, points and other parts that frequently failed. The carburetor idle mixture was adjusted. Most of the time the performance of the engine improved. The term "tune up" does not apply any longer. You will never see "tune up" in the maintence book.

    Any technician with training with OBDII or preferably with ASE A6, A8 and L1 certifications should be able to properly diagnose your engine problem.

    The fuel system should only be repaired my a technician that has reviewed the Honda GX service supplement.
  • 2gxowner2gxowner Posts: 10
    I just had our '03 fixed for a 'check engine' light that kept turning on then going off. They found that there was arcing between the spark plug coil and the spark plug in two of the cylinders. They said that under cold start up, this arcing can occur and cause a miss fire and turn on the light. The light would come on when starting in the morning which made sense. We did not tell them when it would come on. The dealer also said that hosing or pressure washing your engine could cause this by getting moisture into the spark plug area. Easy thing to look at for you.
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Posts: 44
    You should change the low-pressure fuel-filter every 10,000 miles. It's fairly easy to do yourself if you're competent at changing your own oil. I bought the part from Majestic Honda for $85.
    But this item is very important, not a dealer scam. It prevents contaminants from getting into your engine. There is variation in the quality and content of CNG Fuel obtained at filling stations.
    Don't skip this maintenance.
    The high-pressure fuel filter is another story. That does not need to be changed until much higher mileage.
  • gotgasgxgotgasgx Posts: 3
    Can you help with some simple steps to changing the filter? Do you notice any mpg improvment after the change?

    Thanks.
  • fbaldwinfbaldwin Posts: 34
    The Honda Service Manual GX Supplement provides simple instructions for replacing and or servicing the fuel filters. The Maintenance schedules indicate that filter B (low Pressure) should be replaced every 10,000 miles and filter A (high pressure) should only be inspected including drain every 10,000 miles. Both schedules (severe and regular) specify the same procedure.

    Replacing the low pressure filter is similar to replacing an oil filter. The first step is to relieve the fuel pressure between the engine and the manual shut-off valve. This should only be done after reading and understanding the GX manual.

    I hope this does not become a dealer scam to sell both filters every 10,000 miles when the schedule indicates only an inspection of the high pressure filter every 10,000 miles. Frequently new car dealers make their own maintenance schedules which include more service and parts (and more profit)than the Honda schedule.

    The factory service manuals can be purchased from Helm. The
  • yip_choiyip_choi Posts: 4
    Hi All,

    Thank you very for all of your help. My mechanics finally fixed the problem. After he changed cap & rotor and spark plugs wires, the problem is gone. In addition, he did a tune up.

    However, I was told not to use aftermarket parts because the ECM of Honda Civic from year 1998 to 2000 are so sensitive. Any aftermarket parts might trigger the ECM to lit the engine light. I am glad that the first problem is solved.
    However, I am looking for the way to find if there is gas leaking because I can smell some natural gas when I first open the door after parking overnight.
    In addition, I don't have refueling system (Phill) at home, so I go to PG&E (3000psi) or Pinnacle (3600psi) to refuel. How many mileage it can run with a full tank? The empty tank light will lit when it reaches 150 miles. I believe the tank is 8.5 gallon, but we cannot fill up all with fast-fill such as in PG&E or Pinnacle. With 30 to 34 mpg, what is the maximum mileage I can drive?
    Can anyone give me some hint what are the extra maintenance has to do for this CNG NGV car? Thanks in advance.
  • The capacity of the tank is 8 gge , but that is under laboratory conditions @ 70 deg. f. to completely empty.

    Real world useable is about 5.5 @3000 , 6.5 @ 3600. The owners with a phil at home get more range than stated above because of the slow fillup.

    150 - 175 miles with a 3000# fast filup is about correct.

    I have gone 50 miles with the low fuel indicator on many ,many times ,but I ran out once , had to be towed .

    Keep in mind ,the fuel gauge is a temperature compensated pressure gauge , not a level gauge.

    How much is PG&E ? Last time I was up north ,2003 , they were 97 cents :D
  • yip_choiyip_choi Posts: 4
    Thanks for your reply.
    I was told my 98 civic has a bigger tank (8.5 gge) than 01 to 04 model. Well, I guess the 0.5gge does not make big difference.
    On the other hand, I always refuel at Pinnacle with 3600psi. Again, the low fuel indicator always lit up around 150 miles. As you mentioned, you have gone 50 more miles with the low fuel indicator, does it mean I can drive about 200 miles?
    Can you explain more about the fuel gauge is a temperature compensated pressure gauge, not a level gauge? do you mean I should not trust the fuel gauge because it also depends on temperature.
    PG&E charge $1.86 per gallon. You can refer to this link:
    http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/GRF.SHTML
    Thanks!!!
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