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2007 Toyota Camry Transmission Questions

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  • Hi, I agree with you, so I entered my issue with the 07 Camry LE 4cyl/5spd automatic flare up and downshifting problems with NHTSA.ORG so that other people might be aware of the safety issue with this car.
  • The "floating deceleration" was my way of describing the feeling that I was not slowing down when I took my foot off the gas. On flat ground, when I took my foot off the gas the cars speed and tack read like the pedal was still depressed at a steady state. I could count to 8 and I either maintained my position in traffic or in some cases felt like I was gaining on the cars ahead of me. Terrible in stop and go traffic. I was riding the brake wa too much. I initially solved the problem by dropping the trans. into 4th and leaving it there. Now with the TSB installed I feel the deceleration when I pick my foot off the gas.
  • Have an appointment for tomorrow morning to have the transmission looked at. The service guy on the phone was almost rude when I said I was calling about looking to have a TSB installed, and informed me that wasn't the way it worked. They look at the car and they decide when to do one. He said you bring it in and we'll look at it first. To which I wanted to reply, ok jackass, then I want to bring it for you to look at it.

    Said I'll probably have to go on a road test so they can see the problems. I really hope this isn't more headache than it's worth.
  • joel16joel16 Posts: 64
    nathan118, you are right, dealer wrong; that is absolutely the way it works!! If anything, they need to check your Vin for the build date; that's all. They don't want to tie up a service bay and tech for a $0 return. My dealer was very happy to install the TSB, no questions asked. Again, the TSB is for ALL 2007 Camry's, and they should install at your request. It takes about 1-2 hours (mine was 1 hour). Remember to remind them to hook up your car battery to an external charger BEFORE starting the TSB installation. I guess I lucked out with a great dealership (Toyota of Concord, NC). I am happy to report that after two weeks, the car continues to drive like a different car under all circumstances. No accel/decel problems, no hesitation (well, minor on really HOT days - over 100 - due to the air conditioner), and shifts are what I'd expect in all situations encountered. Quite frankly, I am surprised by how much "snap" this little 4 banger has; my car is actually fun to drive now. I am happy now, whereas before I was going to trade in September, and take the loss. Don't take any crap from your dealer. The fix actually works; one thing for sure, it can't be any worse than the initial software with hesitation, rough/poor shift, etc. Good Luck!!!
  • chuck28chuck28 Posts: 259
    Hello, I want to share a reply a dealership told to my mothers friend who has a 07 xle V-6. She was at a stop light and her car surged forward with her just sitting at the light.
    She took it to the dealership and they told her nothing was wrong with her car and she should keep the brake pedal pushed all the way down when the air-conditioning is running, How lame is that.
    This is becoming a serious safety concern. You may already have read others who have experienced this problems. WAKE UP TOYOTA!!!
  • joel16joel16 Posts: 64
    Hi chuck28, i have owned cars in the past (one a Honda Accord) that would surge forward slightly when the air con compressor kicked in and out. It may be that the surge is not related at all to the transmission problem. Not sure this should be classified as "normal"; maybe the dealer should check the tach at idle? Anyone else have any suggestions?
  • Hi Joel, Glad to hear that new TSB worked for your Camry. I also had it installed last Friday (8/17) and noticed a nice improvement in the acceleration, but car still shifts too often when in cruise control and encountering even a slight inclined highway (3 times in 1 mile of travel). I would like to know if anyone else has this problem after the new TSB is installed. How about you?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "...shifts too often..."

    Sorry, you have just arrived in the future...!

    Both of the vehicles I rented while on vacation this year would shift so often it made me think something was wrong. The first was a 2007 Mazda minivan and I was totally convinced it had some strange transaxle behavior until I rented a 2007 Chrysler Sebring the next week and if anything found it was even worse.

    These days everthing possible is being done to keep the engine operating within its best FE "sweet spot", the lowest possible RPM at which the engine will just barely produce the level of HP/torque required in the instantaneous, short term, sense.

    Then throw in the need to have the transaxle ALWAYS upshift upon a lift-throttle event to increase the vehicles safety factor by avoid any substantial level of engine compression braking and you have TOO MANY SHIFTS

    Take a 6 speed automatic transaxle with a lockup clutch for the torque converter and you essentially now have a 9 "speed" transaxle. To the benefit of improving FE Lockup clutches are now being used, engaged, in gear ratios below OD.

    Maybe an effort is afoot to try and match the FE that can be attained with some of the new CVT equipped vehciles.
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    best sweet spot at the expense of the driver and passenger comfort. wonderfully advanced. not. :sick:
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    But I suspect this "too many shifts" thing is something we will/can grow more used to, be forced to grow more used to, as time goes by.

    Unless we somehow end up with almost all vehicles CVT equipped.
  • joel16joel16 Posts: 64
    One of the reasons for the push for FE is the change in the measurement standards for estimated gas mileage. Many (but not all yet) cars are listed on www.fueleconomy.gov for 2008 models, and in some cases the numbers have changed substantially. Toyota vehicles look to be slightly better than the rest of the bunch.
  • Just brought my car home from the dealer. They weren't near as easy as Joel's dealer. I had the number, but they didn't even want to look at it. I'm a stupid customer, I don't know anything about servicing the car!

    They made me go on a road test with a service technician. He was nice, and they decided they could look at improving the transmission performance.

    Two hours later I get the car back, and the operation that was performed is "EG7031." That doesn't look at all like the new TSB Joel is raving about.

    The ride home was mixed. I'll give it a few days, and if they haven't done this newest TSB, I'll try and take it back, or find a place that will do it when I ask them to.

    Any thoughts on what the EG7031 is? Thanks guys.
  • joel16joel16 Posts: 64
    Again, just to be clear, I have a 2007 4cyl 5spd automatic XLE Camry.

    Here's the information from my TSB
    Number = EG036-07

    Title: ECM Calibration: Enhancement to shifting performance & smoothness

    Note: This TSB supersedes TSB No. EG056-06 (obsolete and should be discarded)

    Applicable Vehicles: 2007 Model Year Camry vehicles equipped with 2AZ-FE engine

    Applicable Warranty: This repair is covered under the Toyota Federal Emissions Warranty. This warranty is in effect for 96 months or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle's in-service date.
  • Yours is much more detailed than mine. The only other thing I see indicating what was done besides "EG7031" is the description of the correction. It says:

    "Performed ECU Recalibration to Improve Shift Logic."
  • teamtboteamtbo Posts: 78
    Nathan,

    Hmm, I have a subscription to TundraSolutions.com which lists all the 2007 Camry TSBs. I don't see anything that matches the TSB you mentioned. Could it be brand new? Also, your TSB is missing a number. Here are all of them that start with EG:

    EG004-07 M.I.L. ON DTC P0011, P0012, OR P0016
    EG014-07 M.I.L. ON DTC P0456 (REVISED)
    EG015-07 2AZ-FE ENGINE BLOCK
    EG018-02 2GR-FE ENGINE OIL LEAK FROM FRONT TIMING COVER
    EG018-06 ILSAC GF-4 ENGINE OIL RECOMMENDATION
    EG034-07 ENGINE BANK 1 AND BANK 2 A/F AND O2 IDENTIFICATION
    EG038-06 2GR-FE (V6) ENGINE OIL LEAK (REVISED)
    EG039-06 EXCESSIVE ENGINE NOISE AFTER TRANSAXLE REMOVAL
    EG056-06 ECM CALIBRATION: ENHANCEMENT TO SHIFTING PERFORMANCE & SMOOTHNESS (REVISED)
  • Just talked to the dealer. Apparently "EG7031" is the operation code that they send to Toyota...but the guy confirmed that they did perform the newest TSB, EG036-07.

    I'll drive it for a few days and see where I'm at. :)
  • joel16joel16 Posts: 64
    Ah, that clears it up...GREAT!!! I hope it works out for you too. Maybe the Toyota engineers got it right, or at least LESS WRONG.
  • rfarkerfarke Posts: 3
    When I got the EG056-06 done on my Camry last summer, the shop ticket there listed an operation number that was different from the TSB number. I suspect that isn't something to be alarmed about.
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    or something they are intentionally doing? :shades:
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,668
    This great explanation provides more reasons to get a manual transmission!
  • joel16joel16 Posts: 64
    My service guy told me these types of problems don't occur on the manual transmission version of these cars. He did say all Toyota vehicles will be going drive by wire, as well as Hondas, and other Japanese brands. Two reasons mentioned (a) fuel economy (b) wear and tear on the engine and transmission. I suppose less wear and tear would help the Japanese offer longer warranties (some are fairly short compared to the American and other Asian brands). He didn't mention safety, but others on this forum have (re: upshift before downshift upon throttle lift). I would like to hear if this happens on the Hybrid versions. Anyone know?
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,668
    My service guy told me these types of problems don't occur on the manual transmission version of these cars.

    True, I have a '07 Camry with a manual transmission.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Yes, but if you have a manual transaxle it is presumed that:

    1. You know to use the clutch INSTANTLY if your seat of the pants sensor indicates that the current level of engine compression is excessive for roadbed conditions.

    2. You know, absolutely, not to downshift to a level that will result in loss of control due to excessive engine compression braking REGARDLESS of roadbed conditions.

    3. You might shift down into 1st gear before coming to a full and complete stop but you do not engage the clutch unless you are certain of roadbed traction conditions.

    4. You know that unlike a RWD or R/AWD w/stick shift you cannot use engine compression as "drag-braking" (braking only at the rear) to moderately brake the vehicle while simultaneously helping to maintain the vehicle's alignment with the roadbed or desired direction of travel.

    That being said...

    You may notice that fewer and fewer FWD and F/AWD vehicles are being made available in the marketplace, the RAV4 for instance. Apparently the industry feels that not everybody purchasing a FWD or F/AWD stick shift knows these RULES.

    Additionally some of the FWD and F/AWD vehicles that do still have a stick shift have control firmware that will automatically UP-REV the engine to closely match roadspeed if the ECU determines that your downshift would result in an extraordinary level of engine compression braking.

    Looks as if the new Suzuki SX4 stick shift uses that technique.
  • joel16joel16 Posts: 64
    I've read some material that said the similar/same firmware that is in automatics with manual shift mode (either at the stick, or shift paddles on steering wheel)is somehow incorporated in (what some call) a "straight drive" (aka stick shift). Good thing most of us didn't know the danger we were in 20-30 years ago with stick shift, or automatic, front drivers. I had a 1978 stickshift Honda Accord when they first came out and got into a fender bender on ice when I downshifted going around a corner. Now THAT car was fun to drive--a shapely tin can on wheels, weighed almost nothing, smaller than today's civic.
  • Let me preface this post with the fact that I'm weird when it comes to cars. I get car sick easily, very, easily.

    New TSB on the Camry still isn't cutting it. I think it's a little better, but still making me sick. At this point I'm looking to replace it. But that's not why I'm posting.

    Without going too off-topic, in the last two days I've driven the following cars.

    '07 Camry
    '07 Civic
    '07 Altima

    I can say that all three drive almost identically. The CVT in the Altima is nice, but there is a problem with all of them. When I press the gas and brakes, I feel disconnected from the car. Whether it's drive by wire stuff, or something else (I'm sure wwest can shed some light on this). Then I've driven two other cars:

    '01 Jetta (My wife's car)
    '07 Jetta

    These two cars drive identical, and COMPLETELY different from the previous three. When I press the gas, it goes, and it all feels so natural. Are the Volkswagens really made that diffently, because it feels like a completely different system. The Camry, Civic, Altima, all feel the same.

    So that's where I'm at. Off to look at some Jettas! :) I love this forum.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Just now before I responded I Googled for:

    Volkswagon hesitation

    (Volkswagon, wrong spelling but that's the way I googled.)

    Interesting, VERY interesting....

    I suggest you do the same.

    Up until just now I have been comfortable with my belief that this engine/transaxle delay/hesitation issue had to do ONLY with FWD and F/AWD vehicles. The first google hit as a result of the above search has made me begin to think otherwise.

    But I suppose inadvertent (SURPRISE!) wheelslip due to engine compression braking at the rear can be just as detrimental as in the front in certain circumstances. Say for inexperienced drivers that tend to freeze up when something life threatening unexpectedly occurs. But I still content that this occurance is less threatening on the rear wheels since you still have traction at the front for maintaining directional control.

    So maybe it has to do with the evolution of the firmware design of ALL automatic transmissions(***). The goal seems to be to make them act more like one would use a stick shift and clutch.

    What was that Clint Eastwood fighter pilot movie awhile back wherein the airplane's "ECU" could read the pilot's mind?

    Maybe that's where all this is headed. Just to avoid a clutch pedal....??

    *** Or maybe not.

    The Touareg can be in 4X4 mode wherein 50% of engine compression braking effects will be at the front wheels making it potentially just as unsafe as a FWD.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Let me say that I "feel" for you there.

    I don't often feel the effects of my RX300's strange upshifting technique but rarely I do get that slightly queasy feeling in my stomach. Oftentimes if I think back I can usually attribute it to just having experienced a circumstance wherein the RX unexpectedly upshifts.

    Sort of like that "here and quickly gone" momentarily out of control experience as you fly a light airplane through a slight/short up or down draft.
  • joel16joel16 Posts: 64
    I see all too many people driving around here with tires that really should be replaced. They either have too little tread, or are too low profile compared to what is standard or recommended for the car. But, on average, I agree that it is, at least for me, easier to control a rear drive in a slip versus a front driver. I've driven plenty of both (rentals) and the rear drivers seem better, especially without traction control.
  • Finally traded in the Camry and bought a new jetta, and I love it. Forget the supposed Toyota quality, I love the way the jetta drives, and finally feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders.

    For all future Camry buyers, don't take my bad experience as a condemnation of the Camry, because I'm not exactly normal. What I recommend is driving a LOT of cars to see how they drive. For me, the Jetta felt completely different than most of the asian cars on the market, and for me that was a good thing. Everyone is different though, so go out and drive cars for yourself, and don't assume that a car will be good just because of the name on the back.

    Good luck to everybody!
  • teamtboteamtbo Posts: 78
    Nathan, glad to hear that you are happy with your new car! That is what matters. I am looking into trading in my 2007 Camry once I get the Title from the credit union. I think your advice for everyone is awesome. I wish I had done that before buying my Camry just because of the name on the back.
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