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Upcoming Hatches (real or concept)

pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
edited March 6 in Ford
image


Here's a direct link to Edmunds' First Drive of this new vehicle.

Also, join our new Hatchbacks discussion: Mercedes-Benz C230 (2002).

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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    image


    Take a look at Edmunds' First Look of the 2002 Mini Cooper.


    Here's a direct link to our Mini Cooper discussion.


    Happy Motoring!


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  • What about this one?

    When you open the link, scroll down.


    http://mars.post1.com/home/tks/saab.html

  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Thanks for the information and link. ;-)

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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Join us in our new Mazda 5 door Sport discussion. Thanks!


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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    So is this a wagon or a hatchback sports sedan?

    image


    We're going to base our new IS 300 SportCross discussion on our Station Wagons Message Board, but it's possible that we'll eventually link this discussion to both the Hatchbacks and the Station Wagons Message board.


    Lexus describes it as "Not A Sedan, Not A Wagon - Something In Between."


    What do you think? ;-)


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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    The Ford FR200


    image


    Read about it here. What do you think? ;-)


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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Another new hatchback that could also be thought of as a small station wagon. imho


    image


    What do you think? ;-) Find out more information about this upcoming vehicle in our new Toyota Matrix discussion. See ya there. ;-)


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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Thanks for the link to the PT Cruiser convertible. Looks really cool! ;-)

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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    This message had been re-edited for a link correction. If you're interested in discussing the upcoming 2002 Focus ZX5 5 door, please join us in this new Hatchbacks Message Board discussion: Ford Focus ZX5 (2002).


    image Thanks for your participation! ;-)



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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    The 2002 Honda Civic Si (re-edited)


    Here's a direct link to Edmunds.com's (2001 New York Auto Show coverage) article of the 2002 Honda Civic Si. And if you're interested in discussing the 2002 Honda Civic Si, please join us in this new hatchback's discussion: Honda Civic Si (2002).

    image Thanks for your participation.


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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    The 2002 Acura RSX


    image

    For those interested in discussing the 2002 Acura RXS, please join us in this new discussion: Acura RSX (2002). See ya there! ;-)

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  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    vehicles will probably have diesal in their fuel tanks, and spark plugs may soon be "museum pieces"... according to this article from Edmunds.com's News: Why diesel is the torque of the future. What do you think?


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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    That is frightening. Not that I have anything against diesel, but I have a serious problem with the mindset that the "future" involves still using oil as fuel (in any form). When I think of the future, I think of Hydrogen power, solar power, wind power. Yeah, of course these things have been around for a LONG time, but, just like everything else worthwhile, it is taking decades to get it out of the development lab and into consumer hands. To me, even spending time developing diesel power is a complete joke. Get with it! Fossil fuel is not going to be around for much longer. We need to center all of our concentration on alternative means of propelling outselves around this rock.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • vadpvadp Posts: 1,025
    <<<Fossil fuel is not going to be around for much longer.>>>

    What does it mean? 25, 50, 100, 200 years?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    Whatever the time span is, its an exhaustible source and its WILL run out. So why spend so much time and energy figuring out better ways to use it?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • vadpvadp Posts: 1,025
    What's the alternative?
    The wind/solar powered cars? You must be jockeyng.
    The fuel cell powered cars? The Auto makers and the suppliers alike are spending TONS of money developing the technology. It is still in the development faze and won't be available for mass production (todays 15-25K car) for at least 10-15 years.
    Even the switch to the 42-volt technology is not as easy to do as everybody thought just a couple of years ago and must be done in stages over a period of time.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    That's exactly what you're supposed to think. Reality is that very capable alternative fuel powered cars have been around for DECADES. The only reason they haven't made it to market is due to the influence of the oil companies. For instance, Hydrogen power has been around and been used in concept vehicles since the 70s. It can produce comparable power to gasoline and requires minor modification to the vehicle. There are very capable electric cars out there. They are currently available in California in limited numbers.

    But, for the sake of argument, lets say that your estimate of 10-15 years is what is needed. Well, the article in question here points a finger towards diesel as being "the wave of the future" and used in most vehicles "in 10 years." And that is exactly my point. In 10 years, we should be beyond using fossil fuels.

    Diesel isn't the future, its the past.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • vadpvadp Posts: 1,025
    <<<There are very capable electric cars out there. They are currently available
    in California in limited numbers.>>>
    Limited numbers. Exactly. Demand is practically non-existent.

    <<< For instance, Hydrogen power has been around and been used in concept vehicles since the 70s>>>
    Well. Turbines were used in concept vehicles too.
    How about nuclear powered planes?
    The basic concepts were out there for decades.
    The problem is how to make them economically feasible.
  • snaphooksnaphook Posts: 130
    Whenever it happens, the transition from internal combustion engines to cars powered by fuel cells should be very interesting. Off topic but, what are our airplanes going to run on?
  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    Ok, There are a cpouple ideas running around here that I think we need to clear up.

    1. Everyone knows that Diesel and Gasoline (or Petrol) will run out eventually, the problem is that at the moment they are far and away the most practical fuel for cars and will remain so for at least another decade or so. Perhaps the best route would be to use diesels as the basis of hybrid vehicles.. I could imagine a VW Golf using VWs 1.2 liter Diesel with electric motors for assistance getting 60-70 MPG in the near future if VW wanted to make the commitment to producing it (I.e. it believed there was a large enough market to justify it).

    2. Most alternative fuel vehicles are not yet practical. Electric vehicles exhist, but their short range and long recharging time make them impractical as anything other commuter vehicles (assuming your commute is say less than 50 miles one way). Hydrogen could be used as could natural gas but the infrastructure would have to be put in place to make it as easy to purchase as gasoline or Diesel. Finally of course, these alternative fuels remain essentially fossil fuel based. Hydrogen and electricity have to be produced and their production requires energery that is most commonly produced in coal, gas or oil fired generation plants, to that extent alternative fuel vehicles might be less efficient and more responsible for the production of greenhouse gases than conventional vehicles (They do however produce less smog).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    Absolutely. One of the major problems with hydrogen power is the fact that (currently) it is produced by way of a surge of electricity. Where does electricity mainly come from? Oil and coal burning power plants.

    But, as we all know, there are other ways. Water, Solar, and Wind powered electric plants are all over the place. Geothermal is another rarer one. But, this is my point. We should be spending our time developing all of this further rather than wasting our time trying to find new and better ways to burn fossil fuels.

    A diesel hybrid getting 60-70 mpg? What's the point? The Insight gets over 60 and that's not diesel. So what would be the advantage of diesel in that case?

    I don't even know what the discussion is about. We all stated that, in 10 years, we should be beyond fossil fuels in our cars. The article that started all this said that, in 10 years, we will all be running around in diesels. It seems to me that we all agree that diesel is not "the future."

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    I'm posting information about this upcoming 5-door wagon on this message board, as well on as the Station Wagons Message Board. As some reviewers say, it could also pass for a hatchback. It certainly falls into that cross over category. imo

    image


    Some of you might find it interesting to know that it will be the "lowest priced station wagon in the world." Here's the complete story from, Edmunds' coverage of the 2001 North American Auto Show: 2002 Kia Rio Wagon.

    Also, join us in our new 2002 Kia Rio Wagon discussion on the Station Wagons Message Board. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

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  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    Is that all the alternate ways of generating the electricty necessary for alternative fuels (either hydrogen or electricity directly) is that none of the alternatives are completely satisfactory either. Hydro-electric may keep the air clean and be renewable, but takes a terrible toll on the life in rivers where it is set up, Solar is extremely inefficient in terms of space usage and is probably not practical at the current time. Wind Turbines offer the best alternative but they are also the least reliable... This would not necessarily be a problem at a self powered hydrogen production plant, but it would be if Wind was to replace Gas as the primary energy source in this country.

    Now as to the idea diesel hybrids. The difference between the car I propose and the Hond Insight is that the Insight is a 2 person car that has made many compromises in terms of cargo and handling to achieve its high efficiency levels. Using a high efficiency diesel in a hybrid would allow similar levels of efficiency but without the other compromises. I mean if you had to choose between a VW Golf or Jetta that got 60 MPG as your only vehicle or a Honda Insight, which would you choose? Using the 1.2 Liter Diesel has allowed VW to break 70 MPG without any hybrid technology on their Lupo.

    And for the record, I stated that it would be a decade or so before one of the alternative fuels became as practical as gasoline and diesel are, and it could take longer.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    You: "And for the record, I stated that it would be a decade or so before one of the alternative fuels became as practical as gasoline and diesel are, and it could take longer."

    Me: "We all stated that, in 10 years, we should be beyond fossil fuels in our cars."

    Um... maybe I'm being thick, but I really think we're on the same page here. So, what's the argument?

    Hey, I've got absolutely not problem with a diesel hybrid NOW. But it is current technology. It is here.

    I'll just state my simple point ONE MORE TIME and STRESS that I am not disagreeing with ANYONE (except the person that wrote that article) because I sincerely think that, regardless of the desire of others to create disagreement where there is none, we are all saying essentially the same thing. To say that diesel power is our future a decade from now is pretty silly. It is technology that is available and being used right now, so if we can't advance past it in 10 years, I would consider that pretty sad.

    I'm done. No more.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    You think that in 10 years we should be beyond fossil fuels in our cars I said it would be a minimum of 10 years before there are viable alternatives. In other words what you said implied (intentionally or not) that essentially all new cars should be powered by alternative fuel sources in 10 years I am saying it will be at least 10 years and perhaps longer before it even beomes practical to begin such a transition and that depends on scientists working out kinks in several critical technologies; let us remember that scientists have been trying to work the kinks out of Nuclear Fusion for 50 years now. Given that there is plenty of reason to believe that in 10 years 99% of the cars sold in this country will still be essentially dependent on the Internal Combustion engine and the other 1% will be of limited utility like Electric Vehicles are today. I am willing to bet that we wil need a minimum of 20 years before any alternative fuel stands a real chance of replacing Gasoline and Diesel as the power source for cars.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    Ah, you're looking at 20 years.


    Then we definitely disagree.


    On another note, here is some good info.

    http://www.ecoworld.com/Articles/Hydrogen_fuel_cars_EW.htm

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    Its just that I don't really see any alternatives gaining a significant share of the market in the near term. Diesel at least has the virtue of still having alot of efficiency worked into the design and also having an existing distribution system developed. I think in 10 years it is very likely that Hybrids of either diesel or gasoline engines will probably be the dominant form of automobile sold (though not driven, after all there will be quite a few older cars still on the road).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    All of my posts say we "should" be beyond fossil fuel. Not that we "will".

    I can always hope. But, you're right, reality is that we won't be. Not from a lack of technology, but from a lack of cooperation and desire from all the money players involved.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Perhaps so. This 2001 VW New Beetle may someday run on leftover deep-fryer grease.


    imageBiodeisal: Make Mine Extra Crispy, by By Scott Memmer. What do you think? ;-)


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