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How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,974
    Of course, in most of those places, they get something for the taxes that make up for those price differences vs the US. Whereas most of us here just get second world quality roads and decaying infrastructure for our tax proceeds.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,196
    Speaking of 2nd world quality roads, just passed under a concrete overpass in NE Philly where all the rebar was exposed from the crumbling concrete. This is a disaster just waiting to happen.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,231
    True, although it's difficult to conclude how it nets out in terms of value per tax dollar. Given a choice of paying, say, 1 1/2-2x our price for gas in exchange for better maintained roads and bridges, what percentage of drivers would choose the former? Or, in Europe, would most motorists prefer a significant reduction in fuel prices in exchange for a degraded infrastructure? I suppose in Europe there might be a wide variation, depending on the country.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    NE Philly where all the rebar was exposed from the crumbling concrete. This is a disaster just waiting to happen.

    Your stimulus that did not get used on infrastructure projects as promised. Don't sleep under that bridge or drive over it. One of 30,000+ in the USA considered unsafe.

    11.5 percent of US bridges, crossed by an average of 282,672,680 vehicles daily, were graded as "structurally deficient" by the Federal Highway Administration


    http://www.businessinsider.com/american-bridges-in-need-of-repair-2012-6?op=1
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,974
    I suspect in Europe there would be support, but maybe not enough to repeal the taxes. They understand the idea of a social good more than most here. And of course, most people there live in places where population density and travel distances make transit solutions and quality roads easier to finance than here.

    In the US, where due to our sketchy capitalism that socializes losses and privatizes profits, nobody would support it, as too many people are on the edge as it is. I'd be thrilled to simply see licensing standards from more developed places.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,297
    You'd think a surplus would lower prices. :confuse:

    "A glut of ethanol in the gasoline supply is threatening to push up prices at the pump and may have exacerbated the growing cost gap between regular gasoline and premium, some oil experts say."

    Ethanol Surplus May Lift Gas Prices (NY Times)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    Not easy to grasp. What it tells me is a person is better off with a diesel vehicle, to avoid all the various mixes of ethanol.
    The more ethanol the lousier the mileage.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    edited March 2013
    Ethanol is agricultural welfare, whether ADM or large corn farmers...and Democrat or Republican - it ain't gonna change. My money says Congress and the EPA will ram that 15% down our throat, just like other recent dumb moves - think light bulbs, sugar quotas and on and on! To hell with what you want or need, it's special interest campaign contribution money!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    >You'd think a surplus would lower prices.

    It was only last week I was listening to a news story explaining higher gas prices because of a shortage of ethanol. Was that wrong? This article sounds like it's too much ethanol being manipulated for political purpose to change the Renewable Fuel Standard.

    The article is confusing as far as how it's been written. I need to go back through and analyze it like an essay. I suspect part of the article got cut in editing?

    The real tenet is that premium fuel will cost more just because more cars will need it in the future to try to reach the silly, over-reaching fuel mileage mandate of this Administration.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    With more people buying PEVs (Plug-in Electric Vehicles) what are your thoughts on continuing rises in petrol prices? Let's say if the gov meets it's goal of the 50K or so per year in sales of PEVs, along with continued decline of fuel usage, does anyone think prices would have to fall or would the oil/gas traders / companies make "changes" to keep the prices elevated?

    My thoughts are despite demand, the prices will remain artificially high by any means necessary to keep the record profits. I mean, I never understood drill baby drill Faux News crap-o-la because oil is sold on the world market, to get the highest $$$ trade possible. Plus, with China's demand why would our home oil go to $2 / be cheaper even if we drill every nook & cranny in the U.S.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    I mean, I never understood drill baby drill Faux News crap-o-la because oil is sold on the world market

    I don't think price was the issue. Buying from countries that hate US and balance of trade was more the issue.

    Now we see buy from companies that make their products in the USA. May be a bit late now that we have shipped a huge percentage of our jobs off shore.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    edited March 2013
    > I never understood drill baby drill Faux News

    I never understand why some people think Fox News is biased. They obviously don't watch the news reporting part. They may watch some of the commentators in the evening, but the news is far from biased. In fact, I've been surprised how complete it is. Much more complete than ABC or CBS on topics covered and topics omitted.

    As for Fox News and their news reporting, it is much more fair and balanced than the source of much of the ridicule, MSNBC. Here's Pew Report on their lack of fairness.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2013/03/19/pew-study-msnbc-isnt-really-a-- news-network-n1537986

    I personally listen to lots of different views and I can pick out the garbage, the slant by omission of whole topic or omission of parts of a report.

    But I consider the term "Faux News" to be offensive because it's so far from the truth.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    That's the fallacy of all that tea party crapola about the XL pipeline in Nebraska and oil supply and prices. It's really about a few incremental jobs in Houston area refineries once it's built and then oil company and refinery profit increases. Not going to mean squat for US gasoline prices despite all that BS on Faux News.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    edited March 2013
    I dunno, not just the Fox news channel, but Fox news in general always seems a bit sensationalistic to me. Actually, a good source for balanced news is the Wall Street Journal as long as you ignore the editorial pages section of it. TV news is more about entertainment and marketing, and cable channels are even worse.

    It just occurred to me that I believe both Fox News and WSJ are now owned by that Rupert Murdoch guy and his media empire that is in trouble for their antics in the UK. Kind of ironic! Luckily, I believe he's allowed the WSJ reporters to stay away from that tabloid approach.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,297
    edited March 2013
    We used to subscribe but the WSJ has gone downhill, but then again, most of the papers have.

    I find this a little hard to believe (naturally we have a drive planned there in a few weeks):

    Chicago has highest gas prices in U.S.

    Since it's from the local ABC station in Chicago, there may be an element of sensationalism going on. :shades:

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    edited March 2013
    >ABC station in Chicago, there may be an element of sensationalism

    Is there a gas tax in Chicago that's in addition to other taxes? I think I remember reading that after visiting there a few years ago and being surprised at how high fuel prices were.

    I found this which is a couple years old:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-19/business/ct-biz-0619-bf-gasoline-2- 0110619_1_prices-rocket-gas-prices-crude-oil-prices

    But that's just state sales tax.

    Illinois is unusual for allowing counties and municipalities to tax gasoline.

    Consider total sales taxes in Chicago: City, county and Regional Transportation Authority sales taxes add another 3.5 percent, but because of the ethanol factor, it's 2.8 percent.

    In sales taxes alone, a $4 gallon of gas goes to about $4.31, according to calculations based on figures provided by the Illinois Department of Revenue.

    But there's more.

    When you buy gas in Chicago, you pay a couple more flat taxes. The city of Chicago and Cook County not only levy sales taxes but also flat taxes of 5 cents and 6 cents, respectively. Illinois is the only state to allow all these different taxes to be levied in concert, Sykuta said.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,297
    Must be how they pay for the L, but I'd rather ride it than drive.

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  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    edited March 2013
    ...and the WSJ subscription prices have gone way up to accommodate all that Saturday issue focus on NYC real estate, fashion and entertainment. You can get the relevant business markets news much cheaper in the weekly "Barron's". As for Chicago gas prices, I think it also includes sales tax on top of all the fuel taxes.

    PS - I think they might be higher in Honolulu!
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,651
    Yeah chicago has a higher gas tax vs the rest of the state. I always make sure I have plenty of gas prior to entering the city.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,297
    I like reading the NYC stuff and I still read a lot of the WSJ. Just not subscribing now.

    I'll have to remember to fill north of the city and we won't be driving much once we get to town so hopefully I can avoid getting gas there period.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    I'll have to remember to fill north of the city and we won't be driving much once we get to town so hopefully I can avoid getting gas there period.

    Don't get killed while in Chicago. No one has enough money to get me to drive through Chicago, Detroit, NYC etc etc etc etc. I would drive 200 miles to avoid a big city. My son in law that lives in Indiana refuses to drive anywhere in Illinois. Says they have the most corrupt cops in the USA. And no CCW. Nothing there worth the risk including the pizza.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    But I consider the term "Faux News" to be offensive because it's so far from the truth.

    I don't watch any TV news but do agree. The Left has pulled the wool over the eyes of the sheep on what is honest and what is not in the Media.

    I must admit I have become addicted to one TV show. Diners, Drive-ins & Dives. The Food Network is on the basic channels that are included with our Cable Internet. I watched a couple times and was hooked. Guy cracks me up and he hits the wildest eateries in the USA. NOTHING else on TV is worth my time.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,297
    Bah, there you go again. I have Chicago, Seattle and Anchorage down for the planned trip and then NYC the next month and hopefully LA sometime this summer. Still trying to figure out how to work in Mexico City this year and not go completely broke. :shades:

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    >Chicago, Seattle and Anchorage ... NYC...LA ...Mexico City

    Well, it sure sounds like $4.xx gas is NOT going to affect Steve's traveling. That's a lot of miles. :blush:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    >refuses to drive anywhere in Illinois. Says they have the most corrupt cops in the USA.

    That was true back in my undergrad days at BSU: when visiting lady friends from college in "The Region" of NW Indiana, they said to tuck a $20 bill behind my driver license to hand it to the cop with the bill underneath if I got stopped in that area.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,651
    Lol, that would apply to lake county!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    >lake county!

    The advice was primarily for Illinois and Cook Cty, but included NW Indiana.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    Anchorage is hardly a large city, except for Alaskans. I can honestly say if I never go back to Alaska I will not miss it. Seattle may have the worst traffic in the USA, or at least tied with Los Angeles. Life is too short to spend time fighting traffic in big cities. Not to mention they are all cesspools of inhumanity. Gas is too expensive to waste it caught in a traffic jam. I will always take the roads less traveled, and avoid the interstate highways. Small towns and back country highways are very appealing to me. I have mapped out our trip to Ohio and Indiana this Spring. We will try to avoid all major cities. We may go through Dallas to visit family. I think we can avoid all the other cities over a million people. My wife loves to look through thrift shops in small towns. I cannot imagine myself in Mexico City. You are a brute for punishment.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    they said to tuck a $20 bill behind my driver license to hand it to the cop with the bill underneath if I got stopped in that area.

    That sounds like Mexico 20 years ago. Only $10 was plenty there. I have had traveling friends say to avoid Louisiana as the state troopers are out to get tourists on the Interstates. I rarely see any cops on the secondary highways.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,297
    edited March 2013
    I love 'em all (and I love the free air miles - this next trip will wipe 'em all out for good though, dropped the airline affinity card a while back).

    If the van dies and we get a 40 mpg rig, I suspect we'll spend the same on gas, but just go more (assuming the in-laws stay healthy). The law of unintended consequences lives on.

    I updated my spreadsheets over the weekend. Since getting the '99 van, we've spent ~$21,000 on gas for it (182k @ 21.5 mpg, assuming $2.50 gas on average). Spent another $6k on gas for the Subaru since '03.

    Really should go to one vehicle getting 40mpg and save $10k plus insurance and fees over the next decade. Maybe we will once we move closer to a bigger city that has dealerships and mechanics. ;)

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