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Honda Civic: Future Models

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  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Through June calendar year to date, Honda actually wasnt selling more Civics than any other small car, as the Corolla had a 5000 unit lead. Corolla sales include Matrix, and Civic sales include sedan, coupe, and hybrid. Toyota is not using significant incentives on the Corolla. In fact, Id bet Honda is subsidizing the Civic more heavily through its factory to dealer (not customer) incentives. Its also interesting that despite the increased safety focus of the Accord, the Civic marches into 2005 with ABS still unavailable on anything but the EX, and side curtains STILL not available on any model.

    ~alpha
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    Civic marches into 2005 with ABS still unavailable on anything but the EX

    4 disk ABS is standard on the Si with EBD-Electronic Brakeforce Distribution.

    If ABS is so important to someone, they will choose the EX/Si and if cost is important they will choose LX/DX/VP. It is that simple, and since most people can't put price on safety, they won't balk at $800 more for the EX which will include content worth almost $2000 if it were sold as individual options.

    I wish we had a switch, similar to air bag switch, to de-activate ABS, as at times it becomes a little too intrusive.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    I think next year when a brand new Civic come out they will put ABS as a standard option all across the Civic model line. Just do it for the 05 model year and then having the Civic change bodystyles I guess Honda thought its wasn't worthed to put ABS on 05 Civic's.
  • since the new civic is rumored to get a few upgrades including more hp, do you think we'll see some awesome deals on 05 civics?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    since the new civic is rumored to get a few upgrades including more hp, do you think we'll see some awesome deals on 05 civics?

    Yes you will, if you have patience and willing to wait until the new civic is on the market. When the new Accord came out, brand new older Accord LX was selling for around $12K with some negotiations.
    Don't expect rebates though. Honda knows that rebates hurt resale, but a dealer incentive is usually offered at the end of the model year.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    With EX Civic coupes at 18K currently, theres no way an Si coupe would go for 16-17K. And why would Honda totally destroy the RSX's sales by offering the same engine in the Civic at a lower price?

     

    ~alpha
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    I'm really pleased with the Civic overall, but I'm curious as to why Honda doesn't offer the 2 door coupe in a performance model? I don't care for the looks of the Si model, and there's really no reason Honda couldn't make a high performance version of the 2 door coupe. Could you imagine how much fun this car would be to drive with the RSX's 200 hp 2 liter engine? They can't honestly think this car wouldn't sell, unless they priced it too high. I could see this car selling like hot cakes at around the $16K-$17K price range. 127 hp just isn't enough for performance minded drivers.

     

    The 200 Hp higher perfomance Civic coupe is available, under the RSX Type S badge. RSX is the Civic with Acura badges. So, if you were not out there buying the $25K RSX, why would Honda executives think you will buy the $22K Civic?

     

    The Si has always been a hatchback, except for a freak accident in 1999 and 2000 when they stuffed an EX chassis with a 160 hp engine. This was not a real Si, it was just an EX with higher output engine.

     

    Incidentally, the current Si sells for $16K-$17K. Looks can be deceiving, what really counts is the inside. The EP3 platform is much stiffer and more efficient than EM (I think current coupe is EM) platform. Sticking a 200 Hp engine in an under performing platform may result in a faster 1/4 mile car, but will also drive the true handling enthusiasts away with its flexible body and under performing suspension. Also, you may end up dropping the subframe after 10,000 miles because the chassis may not be capable of handling 200 Hp. You can always brace the chassis, but that will increase the weight, which will negate any perfomance gains from the 200 Hp mill.

     

    Currently, the stock Si is a much better handler and performer than stock Ex. Si's handling is on par with Cooper S, which is by far the best handling front wheel drive car out there. But at $25K for a similarly equipped Cooper S, Si is a much wiser financial decision.

     

    Rumors are, that the 2006 Civic will have 180 Hp and will be a coupe. I just hope they don't call it Si, and never offer automatic transmission in it.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    like a sporty Prius. I vote "hell no".

     

    ~alpha
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,027
    If people are actually paying $18K for Civics, then the buying public is a lot dumber than I gave them credit for. They can be had for 15-ish with just a little shopping around and bargining. The RSX may be a rebadged Civic, but it doesn't look like a Civic. I like the looks of the Civic coupe's smooth lines. The RSX doesn't have them.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    The RSX may be a rebadged Civic, but it doesn't look like a Civic.

     

    Like I said earlier, looks are only skin deep. If it walks like a duck, if it talks like a duck, chances are it is a duck. RSX is a Civic. If you can't see that past the 3% difference, then I can't help you.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I hope that it gets a Double Wishbone suspension back.
  • Sounds like we may finally get the 5dr civic state-side. But alas, no diesel yet. Is it too much of a leap to expect produced to lead to sold?

     

    "the next generation global Civic lineup will include 2-, 3-, 4- and 5-door models. It will be produced in ALL six of Honda's regional operations." -Takeo Fukui http://www.hondanews.com/CatID1000?mid=2005011134388&mime=asc

     

    ...and some more remarks made today by Mr. Fukui...

     

    "Based on Honda's industry leading "Safety for Everyone" initiative, the next generation 2006 Civic will set new standards for safety performance in the compact class. The new Civic, being introduced this fall, will feature anti-lock brakes, side curtain airbags, driver and passenger side airbags with Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS) technology and pedestrian safety features as standard equipment on all U.S. Civic models. In addition, the new Civic will utilize Honda's Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure for improved occupant protection and compatibility with larger vehicles in a collision, the first application of this technology in a compact-class vehicle."

     

    "Further, the 2006 Civic will be powered by the newest and most advanced generation of Honda's i-VTEC engine technology to achieve even higher fuel economy and lower emissions. And a new Civic Hybrid will feature enhancements to Honda's IMA hybrid technology to achieve significantly higher fuel economy and performance. The natural gas Civic GX, powered by the cleanest internal combustion engine in the world, will continue to be made in Ohio."
  • ....It appears that Honda will likely offer much improved VTEC engines for the Civic model this coming fall.

     

    I can guess for the US market we will have a two-door coupe and three-door hatchback in regular and high performance versions, a four-door sedan and a five-door hatchback in lower power LX and higher power EX forms.

     

    I think The LX model will get an improved SOHC VTEC motor of higher displacement (1.8 liters?) and possibly direct fuel injection, with the power output up to 125-130 bhp (SAE). The EX model will get a DOHC i-VTEC motor of 1.8-liter displacement with DI, probably with power output of around 145-150 bhp (SAE). The sporting models will get a new sport-tuned DOHC i-VTEC motor of 2.0-liter displacement with DI and possibly stratified combustion, with power output in the 200 bhp (SAE) range.

     

    However, the new Civic Type-R 2.4-liter DOHC i-VTEC engine won't make it to the US market; that engine will instead be installed on the Acura RSX, with the new uprate RSX using a new close-ratio manual transmission.
  • After re-reading the press release it seems that the Civic will be built at all six global locations and the global Civic line-up will include 2,3,4, and 5 dr models but not necessarily all models at all locations. Bummer! This does not rule out a 5dr for U.S. but it does not convey that one is slated for Fall arrival either. Maybe the fifth gen. 06 Golf GL TDI 4dr will be a much more reliable car than the current 4th gen..
  •  

      You can put warp drive in the engine! Two tings: Americans HATE 5-doors (and hatcbacks in general), and God don't like UGLY!

     

      If it's gonna look like the early pics indicate, sales will drop, as they have for the Ugly Accord, which has a better interior, more power, better handling and economy, and a hybrid model over the Camry. But is quite the ugly stepsister! As a matter of fact, Camry sales are rising!

     

      I think the current CIvic looks great drives pretty nice too!. The Scion tC interior blows it away. Mazda 3 too. But I would massage the current style, just make it faster, interior more bling-bling, and more efficient.

     

      Looks like Honda will blow it's wad on this one. Too bad.

     

        

      DrFill
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    You can put warp drive in the engine! Two tings: Americans HATE 5-doors (and hatcbacks in general), and God don't like UGLY!

     

    I have to agree that Americans do hate practicality. We would rather have an eye candy than functional, be it car, home, or anything else. It has to do with the way we are raised. Starting from nursery school, and cute kid gets all the attention, and not so cute but gifted one is left behind. This is why plastic surgeouns are almost always paid more than more intricate brain or transplant surgeons. We, as Americans, are shallow and vain.

    Thank god for immigrants who keep us balanced.

     

    end of rant :-)
  • Don't get me started!

       

      The point is there are a LOT of GREAT cars out there, but NOT a lot of GREAT AND ATTRACTIVE cars out there. A LOVE the current Civic coupes looks! There are other cars out there with more upscale interiors, that are better handlers, have better warranties, and much more power. But the Civic has balance.

     

      Looks like balance has been lost. It started with the fishy Si, and now it has engulfed the line.

     

      And I miss the CRX!

     

       

      DrFill
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "If it's gonna look like the early pics indicate, sales will drop, as they have for the Ugly Accord, which has a better interior, more power, better handling and economy, and a hybrid model over the Camry. But is quite the ugly stepsister! As a matter of fact, Camry sales are rising!"

      

      "I think the current CIvic looks great drives pretty nice too!. But I would massage the current style, just make it faster, interior more bling-bling, and more efficient."

      

      "Looks like Honda will blow it's wad on this one. Too bad."

     

    I hope Honda doesn't blow this 06 Civic redesign. They blew it with the current Accord Sedan.

     

    Honda needs to put a better interior plastics in the 06 Civic than they used in the 01-05 Civic. And yes, please make the 06 Civic sportier looking on the outside than the 01-05 model.

     

    In my opinion Honda can ill afford to lose any more younger buyers. They have lost alot of younger buyers to Mazda in the past couple of years as well as Toyota's Scion Brand and to Subie a little bit as well.

     

    Has anybody seen the commercial for the 05 Special Edition Civic? I like that commercial.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    They have lost alot of younger buyers to Mazda in the past couple of years as well as Toyota's Scion Brand and to Subie a little bit as well.

     

    Before you suggest that, do you know the average age of a typical Mazda/Scion/Subie buyer? Without it, we will be using assumptions as facts. Accords sales have slipped but it has competition from within the family (Acura TSX, the Japanese/European Accord), and that can easily account for a minor drop from all time high sales of the Accord.

     

    As for Civic, things have been brighter than ever for the car even in a generation (2001+) that many have bashed it for (warranted or unwarranted). It can only get better. For appeal, automakers have to create an appeal for people who actually buy the cars, not think about them.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "As for Civic, things have been brighter than ever for the car even in a generation (2001+) that many have bashed it for (warranted or unwarranted)."

     

    Sales have been up since the 04 refresh to the Civic. I hope Honda can carry the momentum of the revisions that they made for the 04 Civic to the brand new 06 model. See the problem I see with the current Civic is Honda did not clearly think this car out before releasing it for the 01 model year. Evidence of this is Honda had to retune on the Civic's suspension for the 02 model year. I suspect the switch that Honda made from the double wishbone suspension in the 96-00 Civic to Mcpherson Struts for the redesigned 01 Civic was probably why Honda had to retool on the suspension on the 02 Civic. Another evident thing of this is the current Civic has seen cosmetic changes on the exterior each year since its indroduction for the 01 model year. The 02 model year marked putting 2 more bars on the front grille for both sedan and coupe model Civic's. The 03 model year marked refreshed headlights on the sedan model(that was either done in 02 or 03)and also added ground effects to rear of the sedan model. The 04 model year marked the normal midecycle refresh for both sedan and coupe model Civic's. The 05 model year marked adding rear ground effects to the Coupe model. Finally, Honda sort of abadoned the tuner and aftermarket crowd that existed with the 92-95 and 96-00 Civic's.

     

    "It can only get better. For appeal, automakers have to create an appeal for people who actually buy the cars, not think about them."

     

    I understand that but the Civic is a young people's car.

     

    "Before you suggest that, do you know the average age of a typical Mazda/Scion/Subie buyer?" Without it, we will be using assumptions as facts."

     

    The average Mazda buyer is 42 years old from the last Mazda press release that I read.
  • I just read on Edmunds.com that Honda has officially announced they will unveil the 2006 Honda Civic at the Chicago Auto Show next month.

     

    That tells me the Civic model change could be MUCH more radical than Honda buyers are used to, especially with the new body design and drivetrain features that could be quite eye-opening even by normal new car standards. I think Honda wants people to be used to the radical change in the next-generation Civic model in the same manner that Ford did back in the middle 1980's with the then-radical first-generation Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable models, which means showing the car well over half a year before the car goes on sale.
  • mautomauto Posts: 75
    Much more radical? You mean they are going to snap on a spoiler a call it an "SE" model? Ha, just kidding. But I hope Honda does not follow Ford with their 80's radical Taurus design approach. Can you imagine a Civic with and oval console, an oval rear window and an oval grill?

     

    If Honda shows the 06 Civic early (Feb), it will be a body display only. We will no nothing about engines, features or dimensions (unless someone jumps up onto the rotating display with a tape measure). The competition including the upcoming 06 VW Golf, must really be making honda nervous. Especially when you realize that the new Golf gives the current Civic all of the appeal of a riding mower.
  • Especially when you realize that the new Golf gives the current Civic all of the appeal of a riding mower.

     

    Actually, any decent small car of very recent vintage is better than the current Civic, which many have complained was designed too conservatively. Given the tone of Honda CEO Takeo Fukui's remarks lately, I expect the next-generation Civic to go back to the more "sporting" Civics of the 1990's. And if the spy pictures taken in the UK recently is that of the new Civic, that tells me the styling of all models will be quite radical compared to the current models.
  • As long as this new radical design looks good, I'm fine with it.
  • It make the car prettier! The Civic has a list of benefits and market advantages no other small car can match, so I wouldn't go too radical in the redesign. It ain't broke!

     

       That said, just sitting in the Scion tC, then the Civic coupe was like losing $5k in interior style and materials. The Scion is on another level, interior-wise.

     

       The Mazda 3 just drives beautifully, with MUCH greater handling limits than the Civic. And obviously that is more a Jetta in regards to it's available luxury.

     

       And everyone has a better warranty and more power.

     

       All I know is the Ex Civic is supposed to go to 140Hp. No big news there.

     

       I am considering a sub-$20k car. They all have flaws. The Civic seems downmarket compared to the Mazda 3 and tC. And everybody has one, so if you want to be one in a crowd....

     

       DrFill
  • Bottom line: If the new Civic offers better performance, ride and build quality, and more features at a reasonable price, I'll buy it. If it doesn't, then I'll buy a competitor's product. Simple as that.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    The new Civic is rumored to have the CRX line as well. I always thought that if CRX were continued it would look like Insight. I wonder if the new CRX will have the same weight/hp ratio as the CRX of yore, around 1200lbs/125hp. The highest perfomance Civic, the RSX-S is 2700/200(or 215 for the new), which is still heavier per HP than CRX.
  • mautomauto Posts: 75
    I don't think any CRX weighed 1200lbs. Maybe you're thinking 1200 Kg. And no, the new CRX if/when arrives will not be a lightweight due to safety and structural stiffness requirements which result in a more solid ride/better handling.
  • IIRC, the 84 1.3 CRX clocked in around 1900 pounds. I had a 79 1200 Civic that *may* have been around 1500.

     

    Turboshadow
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