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Honda Civic: Future Models

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Comments

  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    "the epa took 22% off of their hwy numbers back then"

    where did you find this info?

    Your telling me the epa estimates were conservative while 1stpik says the numbers were based on old epa estimates that were too generous.

    1stpik's info seems to have more credibility to me eventhough I'd like nothing more than conclude there is a conspriacy.

    btw: the website I provided said the 89 CRX HF had a 1.5 litre engine?? is that incorrect?
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/5263.shtml
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,435
    Look at the EPA website. They explain everything. The EPA dumbed their numbers down once in the 80's and a second time for 2008.

    The current numbers are absurdly low to make up for some complainers who don't know how to drive for good mileage.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    stop comparing it to the Civic. The Fit is the closest thing to the old Civic (1980s generation).

    Today's Civic is about the size of that era's Accord. So no wonder the new one weighs 900 pounds more!

    And it isn't just the safety stuff. It is also the insulation, etc. that gives it a better, more quiet ride. And of course, the bigger size!

    I had an '85ish CIvic hatch at one point. No idea about weight, but probably about 2,000. 1.5L I think, and moved just fine with a stick.

    ALso had a Colt with 68 HP (that was doggy) and a 323 with 82 hp. That car, with a stick, was pretty quick, and just fine on the highway (all sticks). The 323 probably also was barely over 2K lbs.

    Funny thing though, my 2005 Accord 5 speed gets almost the same highway (real world) mileage as the 323 did. Not quite the same around town, but not too far off.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    I'm not debating that the latest version of the Civic is larger and heavier than the CRX of 1989, I'm debating why Honda or any car manufacturer can't replicate the fuel efficiency of the '89 CRX unless they strap an expensive hybrid system on the car.

    It's absurd to use isulation in today's car as a reason for the gas milege drop off. For all the weight in safety that's added to today's cars, shouldn't there be more efficient engines, better aerodynamics, lighter stronger frame materials?

    I've seen way too much focus on horsepower and 0-60 mph measurements in the past 15 years. that's the beauty of higher fuel prices - people are focused more on fuel efficiency now.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    cars are more efficient. It's just that they took the efficiency and added bigger engines with more HP (and of course better 0-60 in most cases), in bigger cars, while keeping FE relatively constant.

    sure they could put smaller engines in downsized cars, but the public hasn't been interested.

    Use the Fit as an example. They could easily put out a 1.3L version with better MPG, but would anyone want to buy something so "underpowered", even though it could easily have ~100HP?

    also, all the real light great mileage cars from back then (80s) were manuals, another hard sell today.

    so, the makers could do it, they just didn't, since it isn't what people want to buy.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    "Use the Fit as an example. They could easily put out a 1.3L version with better MPG, but would anyone want to buy something so "underpowered", even though it could easily have ~100HP? "

    in todays world? Yes! I think the people on the waiting list for hybrids would prove that. There's also been reports on how these older "under powered" vehicles are a hot item on the used car market.

    I am glad to hear you write that it could easily be done. What I don't understand, is why isn't it being done!

    McDonalds could make their food more healthy, but the masses seem to like it the way it is. That doesn't make it healthy for people or the planet - it just caters to an addiction of comfort. The same thing is going on with car makers. They have alot of say in shapping what people desire through marketing. I'd like to think that higher fuel prices will tilt the balance between consumption and comfort towards less consumption.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    cause we as a nation, are hp crazy!
  • rv65rv65 Posts: 1,074
    Not much changes. Nav models get bluetooth but non nav doesn't get bluetooth like the 08 accord. Honda will probably make an accessory one for non nav models. iPod enabled USB port is on all EX/EX-L models. The Hybrid has a leather option. The USB port can play usb thumb drives or usb storage devices. A sport based LX trim will also be avaliable. There is also a VP trim that is a DX with radio and AC. Si's get foglights. Maybe the EX/EX-L sedans get the 350W Si Sedan/EX-Si Coupe stereo. The steering wheel in the 09 is the same as the coupe. Hope this helps.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    Do you know on which trims VSA will be available? I just saw a preview in C/D that said it would be on the hybrid, but didn't mention any other trims that would have VSA.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Posts: 531
    Do you know on which trims VSA will be available? I just saw a preview in C/D that said it would be on the hybrid, but didn't mention any other trims that would have VSA.

    I guess it goes without saying that the 2009 Civic Si will have VSC, since my 2008 has it.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    Uh... yeah, I assumed Honda would keep VSA on the Si. I had read that VSA would be added to other Civic trims for 2009.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Posts: 531
    Uh... yeah, I assumed Honda would keep VSA on the Si. I had read that VSA would be added to other Civic trims for 2009.

    I think it's going to be pure speculation as to what models will and will not have it. For certain all cars in the US will have stability control in 2012 as it will be mandatory.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    Since the 2009s will be arriving in the not too distant future, I thought maybe someone (like one of our resident Honda salespeople) had heard some details about which Civics get VSA for 2009 and which don't. It appears not.

    I need to buy a car (actually at least 2) before 2012.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    Thanks very much for that link! But it confirmed my worst fears... Honda thinks that only people who can afford a top-end Civic deserve the added safety of stability control. :cry:
  • kbryantkbryant Posts: 5
    Thanks very much for that link! But it confirmed my worst fears... Honda thinks that only people who can afford a top-end Civic deserve the added safety of stability control.

    Until Honda and other car manfacturers figure out that people want the added safety of stability control at all price points we'll just have to deal with it. :( Wouldn't traction control help more than stability though....????
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    Kind of a moot point, since the low-end Civics don't offer traction control either. And usually traction control comes with ESC. My current car has traction control, but I use such light pressure on the pedal (especially in the slips) that it almost never kicks in.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Posts: 531
    Since the 2009s will be arriving in the not too distant future, I thought maybe someone (like one of our resident Honda salespeople) had heard some details about which Civics get VSA for 2009 and which don't. It appears not

    I think most dealers don't get all that much info in advance. I think the magazines probably get it sooner in many cases.
    Why they keep details like seat height and stability control a secret until the last minute is beyond me. I guess it could prevent sales of older models. However there really aren't many 2008's left.
    The dealers are price gouging so much right now. I doubt VSA will be on the Civic LX but who knows on the EX. The High end Fit will have VSA as long as you get Nav with it. :sick:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    It's now official: the 2009 Civic will get VSA only on the EX-L and Hybrid (and of course it's still on the Si). Not on the LX.

    In this case, I think Honda should have announced a long time ago that only the highest-end Civic trims would have VSA. Then the people who might be waiting for a Civic (not the EX-L or Hybrid or Si) with VSA might have said, "Oh, what the heck!" and gone ahead and bought a 2008 Civic.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    If you don't want rear disc brakes, why should they give you traction control either? Honda has been saving the best features for those who move up the line for years now. Want AWD and HIDs? Then you go to Acura.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    I don't expect AWD or HIDs in a car like the Civic (although there is the Impreza for AWD...). I would like safety features like 4-wheel discs and ESC though. Fortunately, I can get those on other cars without spending $21k or more.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    Honda puts the HIDs on some Civics in other markets, as does Subaru on some of their Imprezas and Mazda offers them on the 3 and I would consider them a safety feature.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    I consider HIDs a nuisance, and ridiculous on replacement cost, but I respect your opinion.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Posts: 531
    It's now official: the 2009 Civic will get VSA only on the EX-L and Hybrid (and of course it's still on the Si). Not on the LX.

    Good news at least the higher trim gets it this year.
    I think in 2 years all the Civics will have VSA standard.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    If the next-gen Civic comes out in 2 years, then I agree. Otherwise we might be looking at 2011 (2012 MY), which is the federally-mandated deadline for all new cars in the U.S. to have ESC.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,435
    Honda is not alone in thinking that only "rich" people want safety (generalizing of course, and rich means people looking at higher models not people with more money)

    Another common problem is that the "rich" are assumed to be short (sunroofs take up a lot of headroom and the darn things are standard on almost all higher end Hondas - only reason I did not buy an ex-l).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,693
    No, they are not alone but they have less company all the time. Consider that ESC will be standard for MY 2009 on:

    Elantra SE and Touring (list prices starting around $17k)
    Impreza 2.5i (list price starting around $17k)
    Rabbit and Jetta (list price starting around $16k)
    Sonata (list price after general rebate starting around $17k)
    Sportage and Tucson (list prices after general rebate starting under $15k)

    And ESC is widely available on inexpensive cars like the Corolla and SX4. I am probably forgetting some.

    What is all the more galling is how Honda likes to tout safety. Sure, have all the safety gear you want... as long as you have over $20k to spend on your Civic. :sick:
  • rv65rv65 Posts: 1,074
    http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/
    http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hybrid/

    09 Civic Sedan is up but the coupe isn't up yet. Hybrid is up as well.
  • ks55ks55 Posts: 8
    ....and you would be quite wrong as the 3 door has gone .....( I am from the future -2013)
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