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Comments
Thanks. Have a great afternoon. Navyair
TSB Number, Issue Date, TSB Title
3CC006 FEB 02 Rear Heater - Air Duct Leakage
2EN005 DEC 01 Engine Performance - Hesitation On Cold Drive Away
2EN004 NOV 01 Cooling Fan - Noise
Did this cure the problem?
Service manager I was dealing with is no longer at my dealership.
So his little test his history. Drove the EX alot this weekend... Noise is driving me crazy!
It'a the third car, so it's absence is not a problem for us. I'm pretty sure that NHTSA has either a TSB or a customer complaint on it, but I'll have to research it. The extensive TSB list for Sedona vanished from the site a few months ago....
I have brought this car to the dealership who sold me the car and raised the issue to them. But they said 11 mpg local is perfectly normal. And you will never get 15 mpg because it can only be obtained under perfect condition. I called the KIA company also. They said there is nothing they can do aobut it. All these indicated that I am a very unlucky person when comes to buying a KIA minivan.
Any suggestions?
Our '02 EX regularly gets 17 MPG city. It hasn't been on many long highway trips, but 21 MPG was the average on a recent vacation. For details, here's a post I made in Feb: 99windstar Feb 26, 2003 2:19pm
I think there is something wrong with your van. I'd consider taking it to another dealer for a second opinion.
Up to this moment, I am not very happy about the experience with my new Sedona (please see post #3039). It is very difficult for a person to amit that he has made a mistake. However, this is what I feel now. I made a mistake. And this is a very expense mistake. If I get rid of car now, the cost would be about, I am guessing here, $6,000 (with the tax, etc.)
See for yourself, how many people have posted their mpg here? I actually read your post before I puchased the Sedona. But I think you are a lucky person.
As to the issue if the car is defective, I don't know aobut that. I know that the dealership whon't even want to look at it stating that 11 mpg is perfectly fine. (The manager's name is John here in the Bronx KIA). What can I say? It should not be my job driving around to try to find an honest and realiable KIA dealership, right?
I actually looked very hard for the mpg information before I purchase the Sedona. Your post has actually contribute to my decision making since from the posts I read in this board and the reviews in the internet, the low mpg has been an issue all over me.
I talked to the KIA people, they said there is nothing they can do about it because they would go for what the sealership said. If the dealership said there is not a problem, then they would say there is not a problem. Then I told them I would come here to tell people what happened to my Sedona. I think KIA needs to work on this issue. 11 pgm? LOL. I filled up the tank (17.5 gallons) for 198 miles when the gasoline light came up. I have to fill in another 18.5 gallon. The driving has been entirely local. No A/C. Occasionally a little bit of fan.
Sorry! My mistake! Your post is posted after I purchased my Sedona. It was from someone said that he got about 17 mpg local.
My apology!
I posted my message right after I talked to KIA people. I was pretty upset to find that no one seemed willing to help. If I have made any offense, I apologize. But still I have a problem here that my Sedona runs at 11 mpg local. Any suggestions?
>#185 of 186 KIA SEDONA GAS MILAGE by smulvey May 01, 2003 (5:03 pm)
I am getting 25 MPG on highway in summer
I am getting 20 MPG around town
I am getting 12-15 MPG on -10 deg weather with the defroster ( and AC running)
I use the maximum tire pressure on the standard KUMHO tires ( 44 PSI ) which is approved at that pressure by the KUMHO factory. This is a truck tire , not a load range B car tire.
I use regular gas 87 octane Mobil.
We have 9,800 miles on our 2002 and have averaged 16.6 miles per gallon since purchase. This has been tracked for every fill-up in Excel so the number is dead on accurate. We had a Chrysler Town & Country with the 3.3l V6 before the Sedona and averaged 19.6mpg over the 96,000 miles of that van. Our driving pattern has not changed so the 3 miles per gallon difference seems reasonable when you compare the posted mpg on the respective stickers. The mileage rating for the Chrysler with the 3.8l v6 is 18 to 25. That is almost exactly 3mpg higher than the Sedona.
I would like to see better from the Sedona but the lower mpg was a known factor for us.
We will be driving to San Antonio in about 5 weeks for vacation. I will be curious to see if we can get up to or over 20mpg on that very long highway trip.
My milege has varied from as low as 14.5 (City, winter driving) to as much as 20.5 (mostly highway at 65 or so). I've also seen 16mpg in the city (summer with or without ac) and as little as 17 on the highway (85+mph).
Overall I probably average 17.5...
It is also directly proportional to the quality of the gas I've found -- not as bad as my old BMW but still related. Winter gas in upstate NY from a "bad" station will get me the 14.5 -- especially in really, really cold weather when milege tanks. A better gas (still the cheap stuff just a better station) will seem to get me closer to 15.5.
I don't believe I've ever dropped below 14.5 mpg though -- I like the sounds of trying a second dealer.
I knew the milege going in -- both from Edmunds and from the sticker/Kia web site. Wasn't a big surprise but I'm sure we'd all appreciate more. It isn't that much worse than my Dodge Caravan was -- and the Caravan still has me upset with reliability (a new head? on a modern car that's been serviced? at less than 65,000 miles??? Dodge quality).
It's not unusual for cars to have lousy mpg while breaking in and then for them to get better. I got 12 on one tank in my minivan, but it kept getting better and better even past 10,000 miles.
Check your tire pressure too!
Good luck with the dealer.
Steve, Host
Since our return, I have been keeping track of our weekly city driving. The first week was 14.9 (99 windstar - I'm jealous of your city MPG), the second week improved to 15.5, and the last couple of weeks have been 16.0 to a little above that.
We did change something after the first week - we switched from drive to low for our driveway. It is gravel and runs 900 feet. Over its length, it rises 60 feet in altitude with 30 feet of that rise coming in the final 200 feet. Since the switch to low gear, the weekly MPG has improved (whether that is due to the change or just additional engine break-in or both, can't say.)
Thsu01, if your dealer is telling you that 11 MPG is normal, you need to get to a second dealer.
It would seem to me that combining your purchase experiences with Bronx Kia and their current, ridiculous efforts to convince you that 11 MPG local is normal (and 15 MPG will only be achieved in the hereafter) you should get as far away from them as possible and travel that 5 miles to the other dealer (assuming it is not the same owner.)
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/results.cfm
Report Date : May 14, 2003 at 09:58 PM
TYPE : VEHICLE
YEAR : 2003
MAKE : KIA
MODEL : SEDONA
Make : KIA Model : SEDONA Year : 2003
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 03V158000
Recall Date : APR 23, 2003
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, AIR:ANTILOCK:CONTROL UNIT/MODULE
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 3434
Summary:
ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THERE WAS A PROGRAMMING ERROR IN THE ANTI-LOCK BRAKING SYSTEM (ABS) ELECTRONIC CONTROL MODULE LOGIC. THE PROGRAMMING ERROR COULD CAUSE REDUCED BRAKING FORCE AT SPEEDS BELOW 25 MPH, WHICH COULD RESULT IN INCREASED STOPPING DISTANCES.
Consequence:
SUCH INCREASED STOPPING DISTANCES COULD RESULT IN A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPROGRAM THE CONTROL MODULE. KIA HAS NOT YET PROVIDED AN OWNER NOTIFICATION SCHEDULE. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT KIA AT 1-800-222-5500.
Notes:
CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION’S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).
I have a 2002 Sedona LX and have noticed that when traveling at highway speeds down a steep incline with my foot off the accelerator, if the van is increasing in speed due to gravity and I apply the brakes gently to slow the vehicle about 2-3 MPH and then release the brake, the transmission will shift out of 5th gear lockup into either 5th gear "Free" or 4th gear (I can't tell) and will actually use engine braking to keep the van at a reasonable speed.
If I press the accelerator to speed up, it returns to 5th gear lockup as normal.
This all occurs with Overdrive engaged (no dashboard light on). Try it and let me know if this works for you. It took me a few tries to get it to work properly. Just make sure you're not being tailgated when you do this!
Sorry to hear your mileage is so poor. It will likely improve, as you are still around 3,000 miles on your Sedona.
I do think you are misrepresenting the consensus from the community of Sedona owners here. Many folks are getting 16+mpg city and 20+ highway. I would definitely NOT say that 15mpg city is hard to achieve in most Sedonas.
My 2002 LX has approx. 17000 km. (10560 mi.) on it and the mileage I get is 17mpg (US) in the city and 21mpg (US) highway. It has been steadily improving in this respect. 11mpg would be enough to discourage me too...
Across Ohio, we got 20+ mpg. I'll have a better number once we fill up tonight/tomorrow am. Watching the DTE display, my impression is that there are significant fuel dis-economies above 70 mph. I also didn't have much luck finding a "right lane pace" that I could follow, so I wasn't able to get as much drafting to boost the mpg a bit.
More to come
I paid it up with the 3.9% loan from my credit card company as I have mentioned in post #3039. I also raised this issue by emailing post #3039 to the KIA Consumer Affairs right after the incidence, but no response whtsoever. I think the people in the KIA Consumer Affairs (website) are the same as those you can reach by phone number 800-333-4542. I am pretty dissapointed with them.
For instance, When I was talking to one of the KIA people about the 11 mpg issue, I wanted to see if they could be of any help either to buy back my Sedona at a reasonalbe price, or talk to the dealership to figure out what can be done to re-evaluate the Sedona to see if there is anything wrong with the minivan, or anything that might be able to do. I was very much begging them to help me out in such way that I kept repeating the issues that I thought to be important (I was desperate, so to speak, because I kept getting standardized answers from him, etc.). Eventually, the KIA guy became very upset about my repetetion of the issues, he finally told me that since I had been talking all these time, so it's his turn now. He wanted me to just listen to him so he can make it clear that there was not much he could do about it (except that maybe I could bring the Sedona to other dealership, as they have suggested earlier). I told him that I would have no choice to come here to tell people about my story. He said I would be more than welcome to do so. Very rude!
I should say as well -- I don't think I've heard of anyone else having the same milege issues you are -- not to that extreme!
Raise Tire pressure to 30-35 ?
remove third seats?
try premium gas?
leave the Overdrive button engaged all the time?
( where the light is NOT illuminated on dash board?)
try a synthetic oil ?
this may be helpful too!
Take the car to Sears and see if they can inspect the rear b]akes by lifting the back of the car off the ground with a jack.
Rotate the rear wheels with your hand and see if there is a drag on them.
They should be able to " Spin " at least one or two turns with a good turn of the hand.
If they are dragging , perhaps you have a stuck brake or seize or kinked brake cable.
Another thing you could do is invest in a bit of gas, fill the tank as far as you can be patiently putting gas in at the gas station until it is at the very edge of the filler pipe. this will take time since the thing wants to shut off and the flow of the pump exceeds the pipes ability to accept the fuel!
Once you have it there, get out on to an interstate highway and set you cruise control at 55 MPH. Do not change speed unless ther is a hazard. At 55 MPH you should find yourself ALL ALONE on the Highway! Maybe do this at night.
Drive a hundred miles round trip. This should use at least 4 gallons of fuel. That would be 25 MPG.
Now go back to the station and use the same pump to fill up to the same spot on the fuel filler pipe. This will put you to within a few ounces of the exact measurement. Now divide the miles traveled ( 100 / 5 = 20 MPG) by the fuel you just dispensed into the tank. That is your highway fuel economy.
Why is your fuel economy so important ? Well , it is much much more than just saving money or the planet. A good mechanic will agree that a car that gets excellent fuel economy , for its size , is proof that all the rest of the "STUFF" is working perfectly. A car that gets crappy economy ALL T|E TIME , is a indication of a failure , or a pending failure. Thats why a drop in economy can tell you these things that you might not think of on your own, some are quite serious :
since your car is Front Wheel Drive here are some issues for that layout.
1.) A Bad rear brake shoe or drum - major safety risk
2.) A jammed parking park cable. this can also be a risk. the rear brake that is pulled tight can over heat the rear axel bearings and cause a fire. I have seen this reported on some chrysler cars.
3.) Bad Rear Axle Bearings, Dry Bearings ( no grease! ) or Bearings are adjusted much too tight. They shold allow free movement.
4.) Rubbing of the tire against a surface. Maybe it has interferance.
On the front end side
5.) Too Tight constant velocity joint- Very uncommon on a new car.
6.) Wrong part installed on front brake or front bearings- very rare , BUT , Kia and Hyundai are now building several models used in several countries from the same plants. Since they are sister cars , we can assume that new issues can arise on the production floor. We are getting Hyundai oil and air filters on our cars already.
7.) Bad engine control system- there is a chance that there is a problem where the computer is not running in the best manner, called " closed loop". In closed loop the computer measures the inputs ( exahust gas sensor, air pressure , road speed , throttle opening etc. ) and it adjusts the outputs ( ignition and gas flow ) to match the best fuel economy profile. You OBVIOUSLY are not acheiving the best profile.
If the deal has not put your car on the "Scope" or the engine anylyser and printed out the computer diagnostic form, there is no way to establish a " BASELINE" document for your car. Once you get the "BASELINE" you can track the fixes and corrections that can be made to your car.
Don't give up.
This car should last you for ten years and serve you well.
However, I have been using Email and Telephone to talk to KIA and I can tell you they still feel they do not have the clout to tell the dealers anything in strong language when it comes to customer service. I think this is because the dealers feel they are doing KIA a favor selling their cars.
I saw this same behaviour from our local Honda dealers from 1976 - 1980. Then as it became clear that the Hondas were demanding higher and higher prices ( they were selling for $ 2800 in 1976 when the new Rabbit VW had been at $ 4000)by 1980 the Honda deale]s started raising prices and doing extra stuff to keep Honda zone representatives happy.
I am going to contact PEter Butterfield of Kia regarding your matter and see if he can help.
Regards, Sean
I get 16 mpg all city driving, lots of stop and go, my average speed seems to be about 25 mph.
Just did a 2,000 mile round trip, 5 people in the van with luggage, (had to put a carrier on the roof to accomadate everything), driving at an average of 62 mph with the AC on all the time and got a little over 25 mpg. This is better than I was getting with my 96 GC.
I also had the rust on the tailgate and hood from the chrome mouldings, no cost to repair, it is a design problem, they didn't put any spacers between the moulding and the paint. Thus normal vibrations rubbed through the paint.
And the rear wiper cap is gone, that's OK, because the wiper spring is broken (probably due to ice build up during a freezing rain storm in March), new wiper arm on order, again under warranty.
Given the issues I had with my GC in its first year, (electrical/electronic problems), the Sedona is a much much better van.
Every day I realize how much more value this van has than the Oddy or the Sienna. Glad I didn't get robbed buying a "label". Maybe the Oddy redesign will make it look more like the Sedona just like the Sienna copied some of the Sedona interior. Knowing that the japanese car makers rarely create new vehicle designs worth noting, I would not be suprised.
The first tank of gas was from the dealer. The meter was 10 when I drove the Sedona out of the dealer. The tank wasn't full so I had to stopped by the gas station when the meter read 190.
meter gallons of gas GPM
190 17.42 13.8
430 15.04 14.0
646 18.45 13.5
878 18.02 13.6
1128 14.51 13.6
1325 17.95 13.7
1575 18.23 13.7
1826 17.08 13.7
2068 16.52 13.8
2300 17.52 13.8
2554 17.07 13.6
2752 18.72 13.3
2940
The last two tanks of gas were entirely local. No A/C. The MPG was 10.79. Earlier milage was about 30 to 40% short distance highway milage (each trip about 15 miles for 50 trips or so)
I haven't gone to any other dealership yet since I don't really ahve the time to do so. But I know I should.
We found nothing in this sample that would indicate that your Kia has any mechanical problems to speak of. Wear looks good, hanging right there at averages for this type of engine. Air and oil filtration look okay. No gas, moisture, or anti-freeze found in this sample. This is a very nice Kia engine at 10,242 miles.
Walmart 10w-30 SL oil for those who care.
P.S. I had to reschedule the service visit; will advise later.
I don't know if there is any leakage with my Sedona, since the Bronx KIA dealership service won't even bother to take a look when I brought the minivan to them (They said 11 mpg is very nomal for Sedona).
mi____gallons_____mpg
389___16.835______23.10662311
374___17.61_______21.23793299
415.7_15.775______26.3518225
297___12.14_______24.4645799
Not too bad. A/C was not required on this trip
The only nit I had was that except for the last set of numbers, the gauges suggested we were running on fumes. The DTE was diplaying ---, the fuel lamp was on and the gauge was at E, even though we easily had at least 2 gallons left in every instance. In the grand scheme of things, this is actually a good thing.
Change gas stations! Pick a completely different, mainstream national brand station and see what happens after 2-3 fill ups. Take the tank down as far as you can so that you aren't mixing vast quantities of whatever it is you have been buying.
Yikes - was that leg all down hill with the motor turned off?
The Bronx KIA service department sent me a letter inviting me to bring the Sedona in for them to change oil/filter etc. on certain day stating that they have reserved an appointment for me for the first oil change for the minivan.
I called them days before to confirm the appointment. They told me that there will have no appointment. All I have to do was bring the car in and they would change the oil for me. The day before the appointment, I called again and was told that there would be no problem for me to bring the Sedona in around noon time. So, I brought the minivan in at noon. I approached the service department and was told that it's all booked up and I had to bring my Sedona in some other time. I then told them that I did have an appointment. After checking if it's true, still, they told me that there was no way that they could service my Sedona that day. Finally, a guy told me that if I could bring the minivan in on the coming Saturday? He believed that they would be able to change the oil/filter for the minivan. Then, I asked them if I could have the service done somewhere in my neighborhood. A lady told me it's best to have them do the oil chage since they could not guarantee if the oil change was correctly done and if not, then the warranty would be affected.
Finally, I brought the minivan to a quikie lube type of store just accross the street from my work place to have the oil changed in no time. Plus, I got a free car wash because I also brought a coupon to them.
Also, the young saleman who sold me my Sedona has quit the job. When I went to the dealership to ask him to help me out with the mpg issue, what I found were many new faces.
MVF
Mrwallace,
Yeah, we took it up to the highest elevation in MD and let it go in neutral. The 4700 pounds let it coast like a pinewood derby car all the way to IN. We only had to replace the gas that leaked out along the way.
Got to love OH: straight, flat and gas is about $1.37/USg
Oh, and all tire pressures were checked as part of the pre-flight, reading 36 all around.
If on the road in VA this weekend, gas is $1.27/gal at King George (1st set of traffic lights on 301 entering VA from MD) This stretch lasts along 301 for 8 miles, and is cheapest in this area of VA right now. I've been in Norfolk, Tapahanock, Richmond, Washington DC and Fredricksburg this week, as well as the 301 corridore.
We now have 4 Sedonas in the local area. All owners seem to be thrilled.