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Toyota Matrix

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  • steine13steine13 Posts: 2,411
    comedydrama opined somethign like $20k "in the more sedate version". Not likely.
    First up, I suppose you're pulling your numbers from a very dark place, because the only official word I've seen is that it'll be priced "competitively" (Pontiac website). And the Japanese tend to be very secretive about pricing etc.
    However, the car will replace the Pontiac Sunfire in the GM lineup, and the Sunfire has an MSRP of approx. $15k. The Prizm starts at $14k sticker, and both of these cars have hefty rebates throughout much of the year; Prizm is at $1500, I believe. The Corolla stickers for about the same money as the Prizm, as it has to.
    Add to that the fact that GM admits the Aztec was overpriced, I'd doubt they make the same mistake again. On the Toyota side of things, the Matrix will have to be significantly below the RAV4; and don't forget a Subaru Legacy L AWD wagon stickers for $20k even. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
    So: my educated guess is $16k for a base model (AC 5spd), and good luck finding one on the lot; slightly above $20k for a loaded GT or loaded AWD.
    If comedy has hard information, however, I'd be eager to hear it and be educated.
    -Mathias
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    MY guess would be around $17k for a base model 5spd and $20k-$21k for a loaded GT or loaded AWD.
  • rdeschenerdeschene Posts: 318
    Here's a little light reading. The first link is earlier than the first, so it incorrectly listing "Japan" as the point of assembly. Can anybody say: "Exchange rate differentials?" I knew you could. Just plot a graph comparing the Yen-U.S. exchange rate, and the Canadian-U.S. rates. The good news for the U.S. is that Cambridge has consistently put out top rate Corollas. :-)


    http://www.velocityjrnl.com/jrnl/2001/v2kmdl2414spec.html


    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/010221-2.htm

  • The quandary you have is that Toyota is planning to place the car in the "Corolla buyers" range of pricing, but the hyped up model, with the 17" wheels and the 180HP motor won't be able to have the sunroof (or perhaps they can, on a limited basis with the stick shift) due to EPA weight restrictions, so the moderately equipped cars will be at the Corolla pricing at the outset (MSRP right now averages 16000-17000 on the S and the LE versions) and the Matrix with the GTS sorta features, 180HP etc would be $22,000 at the highest point.

    Guesstimation, and making the assumption that a lot of dealers will be marking them up over the MSRP at first. I'd think that MSRP will be where it's at, for purchase, when it debuts.

    I sure hope you are right though. It'd be nice to have this car at the $14,000-$15,000 range with lots of extras but I can't see my way clear to that possibility yet. We can hope!

    CD
  • jvkalrajvkalra Posts: 98
    Toyota says the Matrix will be "affordable", and priced in the compact car range. The only problem is that Toyota makes it a practice to jack up the price with a lot of useless "options" ($800 alloy wheels, etc), which would be better left as options installed at customer request by the dealer. The result, I think, is that younger buyers go get something else because the price is too high, and the Toyota they want is very hard to find. Remember the RAV4 was supposed to be for the young, hip buyer, but these buyers didn't have 21K+ to burn when the RAV came here in '96. The RAVs starting price was only 16K. Even the Echo, targeted to younger buyers has a page long list of options, but it's impossible to find power windows. DUH!

    I'd love to see Honda come out with a competing vehicle that has their simple no option pricing, so buyers have a real choice among the imports.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    Hondas are cheaper than Toyotas -- right??
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    Actually, Honda's are generally always substantially lower-priced than similarly optioned Toyotas.
    Compare an Accord EVV6 to a Camry XLE with the same options as what comes standard on an EXV6.
    Same with Corolla Vs Civic.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    I'll take your word -- I'd always heard the opposite.
  • eclipsegseclipsegs Posts: 66
    The Vibe is offered with AWD, but not with the 180HP engine. (odd?) Anyone know about the Matrix with this option?
  • himilerhimiler Posts: 1,209
    Until trim lines are announced, it's all just speculation, anyway. But, I'm keeping my fingers crossed...
  • eclipsegseclipsegs Posts: 66
    ...as am I my friend.
  • eclipsegseclipsegs Posts: 66
    ...for the new Matrix that is. Has anyone started a website specifically for the Matrix. Love the car and the movie. (hehe)
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    that's news to me. I won't believe that until I see it in print (although, as a Toyota fan, it would delight me to no end!) =O)
  • mpgmanmpgman Posts: 723
    Try finding ABS and side air bags, even though the 01 brochure claims they are available. Understand the 02s will have package 3...power windows and keyless entry or something like that.
  • mpgmanmpgman Posts: 723
    27/32 is what I have heard for the base engine automatic, although I wouldn't be surprised if the EPA hasn't even tested it yet. What is this supposed to weigh? If it is close to the Celica, then you can pretty much use the Celica figures and maybe subract a bit for less aerodynamics, if that is the case. Doubt the 6-speed will have a deep overdrive...more likely at the other end. Then too, AWD will exact its toll.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I would imagine the reason why AWD may not be offered with the 180 horse engine is the simple fact that its power band would not work too well with the extra drag and friction of 4 wheel drive. The Celica GTS engine only has 5 more pound feet or torque than the regular 1.8, but where that torque peaks jumps from 4200 rpms to 6800 rpms. The extremely high power band would make the AWD version feel slow off the line. The thin torque and high power band simply would not work with AWD. You need a lot of good low end torque to pull the extra wheels and weight and overcome friction. Also, I'm not sure whether an AWD system could handle the stress of an engine spinning close to 8000 rpms. So, my guess is that the 180 horse engine will not be offered with AWD for these reasons, not because there is no market for it.
  • himilerhimiler Posts: 1,209
    Sad, but most likely true.
  • mpgmanmpgman Posts: 723
    Preliminary numbers are 21/28 for the larger engine and 27/32 for the smaller. Suspect that auto and manual will be a mile or two from each other.
  • clyde2000clyde2000 Posts: 38
    I found it amusing to read that Toyota is all good, and GM is all bad. If it's made by Toyota it's reliable, if it's made by GM it's not. Is that any way to evaluate a car? Talk about judging a book by it's cover!!

    The best though is reading the post about how in Japan, the Chevy Cavalier (that would be the twin of the [Pontiac] Sunfire) is sold under the Toyota name. Hmm, I own a Cavalier... does this mean that it is suddenly more reliable?
  • eclipsegseclipsegs Posts: 66
    Great speculation. Sounds reasonable to me.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    got some bad news fer ya....

    Re "The best though is reading the post about how in Japan, the Chevy Cavalier (that would be the twin of the [Pontiac] Sunfire) is sold under the Toyota name. Hmm, I own a Cavalier... does this mean that it is suddenly more reliable?"

    Uh, no...matter of fact, the Cav hasn't been sold by Toyota in Japan for quite some time now -- they suspended the program after the car bombed in Japan. Something about quality of materials, paint, etc. The Japanese stayed away from the car like the plague, and they LIKE American cars -- at least some of them.

    The sad thing is, the Cavs that Toyota was shipping to Japan were the best of the best. They had a special inspection line at the GM plant and pulled off only the best ones. Before the project even got off the ground they asked GM to make some changes (no unpainted bumpers or mirrors, for one -- everything had to be color matched).

    It may come as a bitter pill, but it is a fact -- small American cars still aren't the equal of either German or Japanese makes, quality-wise. I think the Cav is a great-looking car, and it has decent power. But the interior materials are cheap, the engine is buzzy and rough, and they just won't last like a Honda or Toyota. Neither will a Neon or Focus, if that makes you feel any better.

    Sorry. Really I am. American companies can, and should, do better.
  • clyde2000clyde2000 Posts: 38
    I admit I don't know the story behind the Toyota Cavalier, but I just thought it was odd that Toyota would agree to such a thing in the first place.

    I completely agree that American automakers as you say can and should do better, but I wonder if the same stereotypes would prevail. There are those that never would purchase foreign cars, and vice-versa.

    We'll see what happens with the Matrix and Vibe...
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    But the Cavalier was still just a Cavalier.

    The Corrolla and Prism were EXACTLY the same vehicle under the skin... as will be the Matrix and Vibe
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    image


    Here's a direct link to Edmunds.com's First Look of the 2003 Toyota Matrix, by Warren Clarke. Let us know what you think. Thanks for your comments. ;-)


    Pocahontas

    Host

    Hatckbacks/Station Wagons Message Boards

  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    From Edmunds' review, it does seem like the 180hp engine will be available with AWD.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,332
    hmmmm.... funny, I didn't get that impression from that article. Just said the sport model will come with the 180 hp. Didn't say anything about 180 hp AND AWD.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    No offence, but that article is one big piece of non-informative fluff. It sounds like it's culled dierctly from the Toyota press release.

    When will we get an actual road test Edmunds? :-)
  • eclipsegseclipsegs Posts: 66
    Hmmm...any thoughts on the 17in wheel package? The prototype looks like it uses aftermarket wheels, as most do.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    The 180-hp version will come with the 6-speed or Sport Shift (or is it "E-shift" in the Toyotas? I can never keep track), and AWD. It's official, and has been for some time. Whether or not AWD is available on the 140-hp version, I don't know -- haven't heard a thing.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    There was a very good reason Toyota agreed to sell the Cav in Japan as a Toyota.

    Toyota and GM have had a joint operating agreement ever since they started the NUMMI plant in Fremont, California, producing Corollas and (when they first started) Novas (a travesty on the name Nova that only GM could possibly contemplate). Later, they started the Geo nameplate and named their version the Prizm (with a "Z," folks). All of the cars produced at NUMMI were engineered by Toyota and produced using the Toyota Production System (TPS), which is why GM is way ahead of Ford and Chrysler in their manufacturing technology.

    There have been several big political dust-ups over them furrin cars comin over heah and stealing our wives n chillun, and Toyota is as sensitive as anyone over their image as stealing the bread off UAW workers' tables. So any opportunity to pour a little oil on the waters is a good thing in their eyes, and they gave the Cav a shot.

    Remember how all the rednecks always say that American cars don't sell in Japan because of the import restrictions and tarriffs, or the dealer network, yadda yadda yadda??

    Well guess what, folks -- Toyota not only imported the things and sold them through their own dealer network, they slapped their own nameplate on it, and it STILL wouldn't sell.

    So much for that myth.

    Excuses suck.
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