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Toyota Matrix

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  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    that is true in the celica GTS (no low end torque in the auto) and that is the same drivetrain but with 300 LESS pounds to push around, so I have to assume that if anything, the problem is worse in the Matrix XRS.

    As far as the color discussion, there seem to be two camps here: the people that like the bright colors and dislike the dark, and the people who dislike the light and love the dark, for the same reason...the light colors accentuate the lines. Count me in the group that loves the light colors, which is why I got the silver (lunar mist), because it shows off the side lines of the car. BUT, if you think the car just looks slab-sided to you, then the dark colors do go a long way to masking that effect, I have noticed.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Less gears means the engine will drop out of its narrow power band more often and take longer to reach it. That's why there has been an increase in the number of gears in both manual and auto trannys across the industry. The auto is substantially slower than the 6-speed for this reason plus the fact that automatics generally sap more power from the engine due to power losses from the torque converter. The XRS auto will not lunge off the line quickly. It will feel slower than the regular XR automatic because the torque curve doesn't max out until 6600 rpms. Once in between 6600-7800rpms, the auto XRS will feel a lot faster than the XR auto but the lack of gears keeps it from staying in the power sweet spot for very long, thus allowing the XRS 6-speed to blow it away.
  • hurler4hurler4 Member Posts: 104
    So which is the fastest off the line of all the models? Would it be the XR with a stick shift? It sounds like the XRS with a stick might have the same pickup as the XR stick for the kind of driving I do (lots of city driving).
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    you could get faster times off the line with the XRS if you really pushed each gear out to redline. Once you get it moving, that big power bump above 6000 rpm will put you well out in front of the XR. But if you are not prepared to do that kind of driving around town, it will make no difference which you have, in fact the XR would be a little faster.

    With the auto, forget it! Get the XR and save some money and some disappointment.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    I agree with nippononly. If you mainly drive in the city, the XR manual will be faster than the XRS manual and save you a lot of money initially and give you better mileage.
  • hurler4hurler4 Member Posts: 104
    No way to chip the 130 hp engine, is there? :-)
    I actually test drove the XR with a stick, and found it to be really difficult on on-ramps and passing cars. Most of my driving IS in the city, but it felt really slow. I drive a 1996 Altima now, and it feels like a speed demon compared with the XR.
    I wonder if Toyota might boost it a few hp for 2004...
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    overtake the celica, since it is their "sports coupe". Right now there is only 10 hp between them. What the Matrix SHOULD have is the 2.0L from the RAV4.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • southpaw1southpaw1 Member Posts: 34
    I drive the XRS in the city and I think the pickup is ok. It is a lot of shifting but you get used to it. Acceleration is ok as I zip between stoplights. People keep saying the XRS is more expensive but if you add a few options to an XR the price quickly approaches that of the XRS so you might as well get the extra horses. If you don't want a lot of options, than maybe an XR is cheaper for you.
  • hurler4hurler4 Member Posts: 104
    Southpaw1, had you also tested the XR stick when you were buying the Matrix? If so, did they feel similar in city driving? What grade of gasoline do you use in the XRS? I know they say to use 91 octane, but is it required?
    Also, in regards to the optional roof rack: Does anyone know if it is a removable one, or is it permanent like the Vibe's?
  • xr_matrixxr_matrix Member Posts: 96
    The XRS is not slower than the XR even under 6000rpm...the extra gear spaced over roughly the same spread ratio allows the XRS to maintain more momentum between shifts...the shift from 3rd to 4th in a 6spd only drops the revs a paltry 600rpm's while shifting at 4000rpm. The engines have the same torque but the extra gear gives the advantage to the XRS...it is simple physics. I drove both and I can tell you first hand the 6spd ups performance even at low revs...this does come at a cost of course, the XRS is more expensive, burns a little more fuel and it is must be high octane.

    Read hurler4's post #1651...everthing he says is correct AND this also applies to a 6spd vs a 5spd.
  • zombozombo Member Posts: 89
    I've had my XR 5 speed since late Feb,burn reg fuel and have had no complaints about it's get up and go,it'll do 60 in second gear and average 30+ mpg.My other vehicle is a SR5 xtracab 6 cyl so I opted for the XR over the XRS for the fuel economy.Surprisingly enough, the Matrix has more headroom than the truck and at 6'3" I appreciate that.Minor annoyances-the chrome on the gauges reflect on the upper windshield,maybe someone in the aftermarket will develop a cover for them,also the mirror on the windshield vibrates going over bumps[the dealer says they all do that]possibly due to the extra weight of the map lights inside them.Does any one with a factory sunroof[maplights on roof instead of mirror]have this problem?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    the factory moonroof with the regular mirror (no maplights - they are part of the moonroof controls) and the mirror does not vibrate at all going over bumps.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    from Toyota that the statement both on the website and in the brochure that Matrix has retained power for the windows after the key is turned off is incorrect - they apologize! Instead of apologizing, I think maybe they should update the website.

    I am still hounding them for a fix for the dumb twilight sensor thingy - i am hoping the thing can just be disconnected somehow.

    Almost at 3000 miles now, and except for these two things, I am loving this car. My bike goes in so easy, and I can carry five people for more than an hour without any contortions or complaints! Plus, I am still averaging 33 mpg, and that is with the auto!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hurler4hurler4 Member Posts: 104
    I have two questions:
    1) Does anyone have the roof rack that is optional with the Matrix? If so, is it permanently fixed on the roof like the Vibe's, or can you take it on and off?
    2) Also, concerning Zombo's comment, how bad is the glare or reflection from the chrome rings around the gauges on the instrument panel? A couple of people have said that they wish the chrome could be blacked out because of glare on the windshield.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    It's not only the glare on the windshield that's annoying, but also the glare straight into your eyes. At certain angles, the chrome reflected right into my eyes and caused me to squint (it's almost as bad as having a pinpoint laser light pointed right at your eye). I personally think it was a poor placement for something that bright and reflective. Keep in mind I'm only 5'6", so someone taller may not have the same issue.
  • leafguy2727leafguy2727 Member Posts: 83
    Hey where did all the Canadian go? Any buy winter tires yet? I just bought 15" rims and rubber (Nokian NRW's) $699 + tax
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    don't reflect in my eyes, because I have the steering wheel adjusted so that it blocks them.

    As far as reflecting up on the windshield, they reflect so high up that they are not directly in my line of sight. Due to the angle of the windshield, the reflection is not bright enough to be distracting. However, if you look up directly at that spot? Certainly, you will be able to see the reflection.

    If you test-drive the car, you will notice it the first time. I noticed it, but 3000 miles later, it has never started to bother me.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • xr_matrixxr_matrix Member Posts: 96
    1. Where did you see the available roof rack...we cannot order from Toyota here in Canada. I have a Thule and really like it. Installs/Removes in 5 minutes and it is lock.
    2. The chrome glares a bit but not a big deal in my mind.
  • xr_matrixxr_matrix Member Posts: 96
    Hey Leafguy2727...still a few Canadians left!

    I ordered Michelin Artic Alpins and 16" black wheels when I took delivery of the car. The service manager said they are in the other day but I am going to wait for the snow before I pick them up. I am getting the total package for like $650.00 + tax, so very similar deal to what you got. I heard the Alpins are an awesome tire but wear quickly due to the soft rubber. Oh well...if I can get 2 winters out of them I will be happy. I heard really good things about the Nokian and actually looked into getting them but the nearest dealer is over 150kms away and the freight was crazy so I just went with the Michelin. Let us know how you like them and I will do the same.
  • coakleysdcoakleysd Member Posts: 32
    Sorry Toyota. I was really hell-bent on getting a XRS 6 speed, but the games you play with availability and option packages make it a hard sell for me. Besides, after looking at the new Mazda 6 hatchback (due Spring/Summer 2003), it's no-brainer for me to go with Mazda.

    Adios Toyota.
    PS: The vibe's body styling is much better. To bad we focus more on the name of the vehicle instead of it's quality.
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    I found the Matrix XR to be one terrific car for my needs, a balance between driving fun and functionality, with the features that I want (including the driver's seat height adjuster, missing in the base Matrix).

    But Toyota's stupid policy of including "optional" ground effects on every XR sold in California turned me off. One doesn't have to be a brain surgeon to realize that ground effects are a polarizing feature: customers in ALL age groups love them as well as really hate them.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A major weekly magazine would like to talk with recent Toyota buyers who are under the age of 35. If you fit this description and care to share your story, please respond to me at jfallon@edmunds.com with your name, daytime phone number and city/state of residence before Wednesday, October 16, 2002.
    Thanks!
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    PR Director
    Edmunds.com

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • 56795679 Member Posts: 88
    1) What are "ground effects"?
    2) What's with these "urgent" requests from magazines? I actually got an e-mail awhile ago asking for my opinions on the VUE.
    3) What's the matter with the wheels/tires it came with?
    4) Inspite of some suggestions from contibutors on the Vibe board, I still have trouble with clouding or fogging on the upper part of my windshield on my Vibe on cool mornings/evenings. Regretfully, I wiped away with my bare hand and this remains after the windhield clears only to turn up again when the temp drops. Any Matrix owners experience this?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I have never had this problem, but it is almost certainly because of one or two things, unless your A/C is broken:
    (1) you are running the defrost with the recirc set to inside air - IT MUST BE fresh air coming in

    OR

    (2) you are not turning up the temp to moderate air temps, maybe halfway up the dial. It does not have to be hot, but if it is stone-cold (just air conditioned air coming out) it can create its own moisture on the windshield.

    If neither of these applies to you, there is something wrong with your car, maybe even something important like a leaking heater core, and you should get it checked out right away.

    The HVAC on the matrix is one of the things that really works well.

    Oh, and ground effects are the front and rear air dams, as well as the rocker sill extensions below the side doors, that many matrixes have. if you are not sure what I am talking about, go check out a base Matrix and an XR side by side. There is lots of stuff extending below the bumpers and doors on the XR that is not there on the base model.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • leafguy2727leafguy2727 Member Posts: 83
    Tires it came with are 16" wide (to an extent)lowish profile, are goodyear RSA I think, if you own a Matrix and have driven in the rain you'll know when you give it some good gas from a stop they slip very easy, there is no ABS on the XR so I'm just more comfortable with a higher profile winter tire, I've never driven with winter tires b4 so I'm sure I'll notice a difference. I got my XR in Feb but there was really no snow after that here in Toronto.

    On your fog problem are you keeping the air on re-circulate?
  • jvkalrajvkalra Member Posts: 98
    Toyota feels that all young people want to look really cool. They also feel that the ONLY way to look cool in a Matrix XR or XRS is to drive one that has the optional ground effects and underbody spoilers. That's pretty smart thinking on Toyota's part, IMO.

    If you don't like those ground effects, either you are old, or a young person who doesn't want to look cool. :-)

    Either way, Toyota is not interested in selling a Matrix XR or XRS to people like you. Start thinking COOL, dude!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    If you don't like the look, you don't like the look. Just FYI for all those people, you can get a base Matrix which won't have these ground effects, and still option it up to have pretty much everything the XR has, and they are of coure mechanically identical.

    And BTW leafguy, Eagle RSA is only one of the tires this car comes with. I have had Eagles in the past, and they do have poor wet traction. However, my Matrix came with Continental tires - Conticontacts I believe. They probably don't handle as well, but I don't get any squealing out of them when I corner hard (just lots of body lean and understeer), and they have great traction in the wet...I will probably switch to Michelin MXV4 Energys when these are done.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    It reads: Toyota Matrix drivers, are you out there? If you are interested in sharing your thoughts on your vehicle with a national audience, please contact the reporter of a MAJOR daily at lori_f@eudoramail.com with your name, daytime contact information, line of work and city/state of residence by October 14, 2002.

    Thank you!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    You say "Just FYI for all those people, you can get a base Matrix which won't have these ground effects, and still option it up to have pretty much everything the XR has, and they are of course mechanically identical".

    That's not correct. I really want the vertical seat height adjuster, and power mirrors, both of which I cannot get in the Matrix XR as options. There are also other cosmetic differences between the XR and base, which one can't get as options.

    A basic Matrix XR (without Toyota imposed "options") is not built. I could compromise on just a basic Matrix XR, if available, but would still have to pay someone to take tke side skirts off.

    Toyota's options configurations on the Matrix are deceptive and stupid, I'm sorry to say those are the only words to describe them. I'm sure they will sell all the Matrix(es) they make, and that gives them the liberty to build them whichever way THEY want, disregarding their own published specs for the XR.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I am sorry - I meant the base model, NOT the XR. I was aware that the base did not have the vertical seat height adjust, which seems so capricious and stupid on the part of Toyota.

    Are you positive you cannot get the power mirrors on the base Matrix? I am surprised. I thought you could.

    Are there any other differences between base and XR?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    In post 1680 above, I meant to say "I really want the vertical seat height adjuster, and power mirrors, both of which I cannot get in the base Matrix as options". In other words, I do want the vertical seat height adjuster which is standard in the XR (but which unfortunately also comes with optional ground effects).

    There are other cosmetic differences between the XR and base, which I'm willing to ignore.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    leafguy2727 and others....

    ABS is available on the XR both in auto and 5 speed.

    There is one with 5 speed at seeger Toyota in St. Louis.

    It is an available option that Toyota makes incredibly difficult to find.

    There's a lot of low wattage blubs in Toyota town's marketing group.
  • zukhovzukhov Member Posts: 34
    Hey Leafguy, I know exactly what you mean with the wet weather traction. I've never had a car that was so easy to spin the wheels big time when any moisture is on the road. It will definitely be a problem in the winter here in Toronto. Unless you want to drive like a total granny. What I can't decide is whether to go for the ( 1 size smaller) steel rims. It's not good to be switching the tires all of the time for each beginning and end of winter. I'm going to check out Costco soon to see what they have
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    There are over 40,000 matrix owners out there in TV-land now, and yet this thread is about to fall off the front page, it is so quiet!

    Just coming up on 5000 miles, I am going to go out this weekend and see if I can get my oil pan under this car without lifting it, and that first batch of oil is gone!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dvd9dvd9 Member Posts: 22
    Yes, it is so quite in this forum.

    I was able to change my oil and oil filer w/o lifting my car. I have Matrix 4WD XR.

    ?s for Matrix fans:

    1) Does Matrix have 5 mph bumpers? I am not sure what's classification for Matrix. Is it a car or SUV?

    2) I want to install side panel turn signals. Any suggestion??

    Thanks
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I believe the bumpers are 2.5 mph bumpers, but I could be mistaken. I know for sure it is a car - classified by the EPA as a midsize car in fact.

    I have one of those large oil recycling pans, so I think it might be a tight fit under this car without resorting to jackstands or ramps.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ajacatajacat Member Posts: 63
    We're out to find a car with more luggage space and better suspension than our 98 Camry XLEV6--got it used--it was fine in North Carolina but to go anywhere out here in Oregon we need much better suspension. Actually, even the city streets in Portland abruptly stop being paved from one block to the next, so you can be driving along in the middle of the city and suddenly you're on rocks. A first for me.

    How's the suspension in the Vibe/Matrix? Does going over dirt/rocks make things rattle afterwards or does the car stay intact?

    We don't want an SUV, we want a wagon with decent space and suspension. AND a decent engine. The Subaru Outbacks (o.k., an SUV/wagon cross) are just so slushy--although I'm looking into modification possibilities...

    your thoughts? Would you recommend the Vibe/Matrix?

    Thanks-
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    a '98 camry V-6 for a couple of weeks, I would say the matrix suspension is about as firm as that car was. It masks stuff well, so over potholed pavement the ride is pretty comfortable, but I don't know about its durability if it was driven over abrupt transitions and gravel or rocks every day. I mean, it is definitely a city car, so I suppose you would wear out the suspension faster than it was designed to.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ajacatajacat Member Posts: 63
    Thanks here too, nippon--

    But aw man, I guess we have to go with something else. The Matrix/Vibe mpg is so attractive, though, along with the room (we want to have a bike inside, or room for hauling gardening stuff) and the design, actually...but the roads here in OR are just crazy. Abrupt transition, gravel, rocks--you got it all, right in the middle of the city--the history of development is such that a block would refuse city maintenance so the road has just gone all to pieces or there was never a paved road to start with. Guess now I know why *so many* folks have an Outback or a Forester but I really don't want to 'join', iykwim.

    Darn. (wanders off muttering, contemplating what the right car for this area could possibly be, other than an Outback...)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    you need one of those pretend SUVs, because they have the much bigger tires and heavy duty suspension to handle that sort of thing.

    Personally, I think one of the big reasons cars like outback have succeeded so well, is that people have become aware of the enormous deterioration of American streets, and feel they need a car that will be less damaged by them...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • smiweesmiwee Member Posts: 6
    Hi gang. We're the happy owners of a Cosmic Blue XR since June of this year. Have a question regarding the dash lighting. Does the left side where the interior/ mirror adjusters are located have back lighting. At night I find I have to fumble around by feel whenever I need to make adjustments. The switches look just like the others on the dash but ,on mine, don't light up.
    Can someone let me know if this is normal, or I just have a bulb not working.
    Other than this seeming unusual we've had no problems with car after 10M miles and enjoying the ride.
    Will appreciate any feedback.
    Thanks,
    Donna and Stan
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    "we've had no problems with car after 10M miles."

    10 Million miles. That's pretty darn good.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    there is no back lighting for the dash lighting rheostat, if that is what you are referring to.

    With any luck, you will get to 110K with no problems!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • teenboy13teenboy13 Member Posts: 17
    maybe smiwee ment 10K miles it could have been a typo
  • drive10drive10 Member Posts: 6
    http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/vibe/access/supercharger.jsp?source=vibema&pagename=vibeacsprv


    You can now get a supercharger for the vibe and I assume toyota will be offering soon also. The low end low rpm torque will be welcome.

  • xr_matrixxr_matrix Member Posts: 96
    For those Canadians still looking to buy a Matrix, my dealer just had a deal go sideways on an ordered Lunar Mist XR AWD. The couple opted for a Highlander at the last minute.

    Send me a message if you want their contact information....
  • xr_matrixxr_matrix Member Posts: 96
    Wow...like the sound of that Supercharger...I assume that would mean Matrix as well. If you read the small print at the bottom of the page they claim not available for the Vibe AWD or the GT. I can see it not available on the high revving 180hp, but I am wondering why Toyota/GM are so reluctant to increase the ponies on the AWD...they must not have a lot of faith in the viscous coupling in the higher horsepower. A supercharged XRS with all wheel drive and 6spd, please build this car Toyota and I will upgrade tomorrow.
  • hurler4hurler4 Member Posts: 104
    I was just at the International Car Show in Boston, and couldn't figure out why the Vibe has roof rails, but the Matrix doesn't. This seems like a huge omission, since Toyota is marketing the car to active people who do surfing, biking,, etc.
    How difficult would it be to add roof rails to a Matrix? I asked a dealer and they couldn't really come up with an answer. Could I take it to a Pontiac dealer since the Vibe has roof rails? I really want a permanent roof rack system, but like the styling of the Matrix better than the Vibe.
  • elsielsi Member Posts: 2
    I'm looking at purchasing the 4wd XR. Who's got one and has handled it in rain/snow? How's it been performing for you? I just read Edmund's reviews here too on the lower power on the 4wd. Do you notice it?
    I'm coming off an older car so I'm sure any new vehicle is going to feel like it's handling amazingly, but I'm curious if I should be concerned or not.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    Can you take a 4WD out for a test drive? We're not racecar drivers, and in my opinion the power on the 4WD is fine. The car downshifts frequently to 3rd gear when going up hills, but 4th gear is an overdrive so it's something I expected. I feel confident merging onto the interstate highway and pulling out into rush-hour traffic. Not much experience yet with snow, but I didn't notice any spinning when pulling away quickly from stop signs on rain-slick roads. That has been a complaint of 2WD Matrix owners who blame it in part on Firestone tires.

    People keep asking about the roof rack, but no one seems to have any information. It's still listed in the sales booklet as an available accessory, but the parts people at my dealership say they haven't heard anything yet about its availability. A used car manager who had inspected the Matrix carefully (and knew more about them than the saleman) said everything is in place on the Matrix for mounting a Vibe roof rack. If you pursue this, let us know what you find out. I have seen a couple of Matrixes with roof racks -- but obviously not the ones made by GM/Toyota.
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