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Land Rover Freelander

steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,408
First Drive: 2002 Land Rover Freelander

I wonder how close to $25k US it'll really cost?

Steve
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  • jgts1jgts1 Posts: 32
    because it looks like a Honda CR-V.....performance wise, I haven't heard its anything to write home about. But, its still a $25-$30k Land Rover- so, it should sell just fine.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    The only thing it has in common with the CRV is looks. V-6 engine, 5spd steptronic trans, Unibody developed for off-road abilities (not based on an existing car), Hill Descent control. All these things and more will put it head and shoulders above the CRV.
  • jgts1jgts1 Posts: 32
    Its going to be a better vehicle than the CRV...just being facetious.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Sorry if I offended, just trying to provide some info on the differences :)
  • jgts1jgts1 Posts: 32
    your providing real info.....nothing wrong with that :).
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    To say the least, I think this will be an interesting option in the SUV market. but, three things worry me greatly.

    1) The ability of LR to produce the Freelander in mass, US size quantities. The reports are that LR will double their sales with the Freelander, but will they be able to produce enough vechicles so that the waits aren't that long?

    2) Speaking of waits, does LR have a history of charging a premium over sticker on their vehicles? This one is destined to be popualr from the get-go, so it concens me that the top-of-th-libe HSE will not be $30K, but rather $35K with a premium...Heck, does LR have a history of dickering over price on their vehicles, or is it sticker and that's that?

    3) The Disco II is getting cut to shreds for its many problems. As the Freelander is an older design, I hope this version will be almost "all-new" with many kinks worked out.

    What does everyone think?
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Land Rover is not a mass marketer, so production will be tailored to the sales numbers estimated. Land Rover retailers, like almost all automotive retailers, are independant businesses and will set their own pricing policies. Freelander has changed from the original vehicle with about 75% all new and updated parts.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    Well, agreed on the dealers being independant, but...I'd imagine there has to be some pricing history there. Sales estimates say that LR will move over 50K of these in the first year.

    LR has established www.freelander.com to hype the little bugger.

    Also the Swinton plant has been expanded to handle the new 2002/2003 RR, which is based off of the X5 platform. Thus it'll have IFS and IRS...Talk about a bad move.
  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    The Mitsubishi Montero has 4 wheel independent suspension, and so far all of the auto magazines I have read have been very pleased with its off-road performance. In addition to this, it won the '01 Paris to Dakar Rally, which is 21 days of off-roading, and over 6200 miles across the African continent. Last year, the 4 wheel independent suspension prototype class Renault buggy won the race (and the year before, and the year before that too!), as did the Mercedes-Benz M-class SUV (4 wheel independent suspension as well) in the T1 production vehicle class. It may not be too bad of a move after all, considering what most people do with their Range Rovers!

    Anyway, back to the Freelander...I took these pictures of UK spec Freelander (dressed up with a weird package) at a recent autoshow:

    image

    image


    Drew
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  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    I know LRNA is forecasting 20,000 sales for the 1st year in the U.S., looking to double total sales to 50,000. I certainly hope they can do more than that, as I have a personal interest in LRNA's success.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    Drew....Since you saw the Freelander in person, can you give an approximate guess as to how high it stands? From the photos it looks no taller than the Subaru Forester.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    A personal interest in LRNA success?? Do you work for Ford?

    ALso, I know the Montero had four wheel IS, but do we really think the one that took the Paris Dakar title is the same at th dealer down the street? Honestly, I have no idea, but I am guessing the racing Montero had some mods to its body, frame, and suspension.
  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    I would say that it's Honda CR-V height. Definitely higher than the Subaru Forester. Entry and exit was easy. I sat in both the front and the rear seats. The front seats were quite comfortable, but really tall folks may have a problem with headroom. The rear seat had adequate legroom, comparable with the Mazda Tribute, at least from what I remember. There was definitely a lot of interest in this vehicle!

    The ergonomics were traditional Land Rover though. That is to say, okay, but not great. The centre console cluster is a bit low down and far away from the driver.


    Drew
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  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    So I do have a definite interest. I have driven a 4 cyl Freelander that was here for testing, it is about CRV Height, but I find the interior much more comfortable. I also presently own a Forester (bought before I became a permanent employee) and find the Freelander a bit more comfortable in front and it has much better rear seat room. It falls down in cargo capacity though. The 4 cyl Freelander felt quick and more solid than the CRV I had test driven before buying the Forester. I am 6'2" and large of girth and had no problem getting comfortable in the Freelander, I actually find it more comfortable than the Discovery. I can't wait to try the 6 cyl NAS spec vehicle.
  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    Wow, we're fortunate to have you as an insider then! Any hints to share with us? ;-)


    Drew
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  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Will not have the teal colored HVAC vents or the light grey dash. The vehicles without wood trim will have brushed silver on the HVAC surround and Shifter trim, and ash black will be the dash color. Also the vehicle in Canada was a German spec car (U.K. Spec are RHD). Also we will not be getting the ribs on the exterior. We are also going to have a full line of accessories to give the off-road look to the vehicle.
    For those wondering about the off-road capabilities, this will be a true Land Rover. From comments of our off-road driving instructors I gather that they were very impressed with the capabilities of the vehicle. Even with independent suspension it still will have a class leading 10.5" of ground clearance. The v6 engine has variable length intake runners to provide for more torque at lower RPM. Also 1 and 2 gears in the 5 speed steptronic trans are geared lower to help overcome the lack of a 2 speed transfer case. Approach and departure angles haven't been announced, but looking at the vehicle they should be acceptable. I hope to get a chance to take one off road at one of our test tracks. As I get more info that I can post I'll let you all know.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    Well, I am 5'11 and have very broad shoulders, so I am glad to hear that the Freelander is a bit spacious. I also think I might like the HVAC and radio controls farther away and on that angle as I have long arms (5'11 with the arm lnegth of 6'3 man) so I like the controls placed lower.

    So, Tincup, a LRNA employee huh? Are you basd out of Lanham, MD or are you a dealership guy? 10.5 inches of GC, really? It looks like it is a alot lower than that. Is that effective gorund clearance (i.e. from the lower part of the control arm) or from the center of the suspension?

    Personally I have been hearing about the Land Rover for the past year and a half when a friend working for BMWUSA tasked to LRNA told me of the vehicle.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    Tincup...

    Edmunds reported three trim levels in their "first drive" a week or so ago. Do you habe any information about the differentiation between these three levels? How about approximate sticker prices? Also, the brochure I received from LR says that Freelander wil be here in December 2001, does this sound about right or will it be earlier in the fall?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,408
    Now we can all go off-road.

    Steve
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  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    I am based at Lanham, our dealership personnel are employed by the dealerships. The ground clearance should be effective clearance as there are no links hanging down ala Escape, Rav4, or CRV. There are going to be 3 trim levels, the base level has cloth interior and 16" wheels. The SE has leather seats and 17" wheels, and the HSE has more leather trim, CD changer, and NAV system. There are probably more differences but those are the major ones. No word on pricing yet, it may be set but I'm not in marketing. I haven't heard a firm release date, but Nov.-Dec. is the target.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    So, if I read the "muddy brillint" article correctly, the Freelander will get 17-25 MPG in fuel economy...Not too bad, though that 10.1 in the quarter is slower than the 148HP RAV4...Kind of slow really.

    Tincup: My friend used to work out of Lanham and then when Ford purchased LR, all hell broke loose. I am intrigued by the "no link hanging down" aspect of the rear suspension. If I envision it correctly, it will akin to the M class or the X class in structure. Very cool.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    The rear suspension is macpherson strut instead of a multi-link suspension. BMW was not the kindest steward of Land Rover, in fact we had been told in Feb. that the Lanham bldg was closing by the end of the year. A lot of good people left the company while BMW tried to assimilate us in a Borg like fashion. Who was your friend? I might have known him (or her). many of the people with BMW were quite nice, but the company as a whole left a sour taste with the Land Rover faithful.
    The Freelander was designed to be a competent off-roader while retaining good road manners. The 0-60 times may not look that good, but one of the primary goals was to have good low speed manners for off-roading.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    I was tooling around Google and took a look for stuff on the Freelander. I found this one and though it is long, it's probably the best article I have read on the vehicle yet.


    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=6998


    Happy reading!


    Bob

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,408
    V6 set to explode into US market.

    link

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  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    We're the last to know sometimes.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    I found the following specs on the canadiandriver.com website...

    Quick question for TinCup, this article says ground clearance is no more than 8.7 inches, yet you said it would 10.5. What is the cause for the confusion?

    ENGINE
    Type: 24-valve DOHC V6 with Variable Induction System (VIS).
    Construction: Cast aluminum-alloy cylinder heads and block.
    Wet cast-iron cylinder liners.
    Displacement: 2.5 liters (152 cu. in./2497 cc).
    Bore x stroke: 3.15 in. x 3.27 in. (80 mm x 83 mm).
    Compression ratio: 10.5:1
    Horsepower @ rpm: 175 @ 6,250 rpm
    Torque @ rpm: 177 lb-ft @ 4,000 rpm
    Engine management: Siemens 2000
    Fuel management: Sequential fuel injection.
    Ignition: Direct ignition.
    Alternator output: 120 amp.
    Fuel requirements: Regular unleaded 87 octane minimum.
    Fuel tank capacity: 15.6 U.S. gallons (59 liters).

    SUSPENSION & STEERING
    Front: Independent. MacPherson struts, lower arms, coil springs, anti-sway bar.
    Rear: Independent. MacPherson struts, trapezoidal links, coil springs.
    Steering type: Power-assisted rack-and-pinion.
    Turns lock-to-lock: 3.2
    Turning circle: 38.0 ft. (11.6 m).

    DRIVETRAIN
    Drive system: All-wheel drive with center viscous coupling and four-wheel Electronic Traction Control (4ETC).
    Transmission: Jatco five-speed Steptronic automatic with intermediate reduction drive and locking torque converter.
    Gear ratios: First 3.47:1
    Second 1.95:1
    Third 1.25:1
    Fourth 0.85:1
    Fifth 0.69:1
    Reverse 2.71:1
    Final-drive ratio: 3.66:1

    BRAKES
    Power-assisted front disc and rear drum brakes.
    10.9-inch (277-mm) front disc/10.0-inch (254-mm) rear drum.
    Dual hydraulic circuit with front/rear split.
    Four-channel, all-terrain Anti-lock Braking System (ABS).
    Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD).
    Hill Descent Control (HDC).
    Parking brake operates on rear drums.

    STANDARD WHEELS & TIRES
    16-inch aluminum alloy wheels.
    215/65R-16 radial tires.
    Full-size, exterior-mounted spare tire fitted to aluminum alloy wheel.

    EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS
    Overall length: 175.0 in. (4447 mm)
    Overall width: 71.1 in. (1805 mm)
    Overall height: 69.2 in. (1757 mm) including roof rails
    Wheelbase: 101.0 in. (2557 mm)
    Track front/rear: 60.4/60.8 in. (1534/1545 mm)
    Loading height: 25.1 in. (638 mm)
    Rear opening height: 41.5 in. (1055 mm)
    Rear opening width: 42.8 in. (1086 mm)

    INTERIOR DIMENSIONS
    Seating capacity: Five.
    Head room, front/rear: 38.4/38.9 in. (977/988 mm)
    Leg room, front/rear: 41.8/36.8 in. (1062/934 mm)
    Shoulder room, front/rear: 55.9/53.1 in. (1420/1350 mm)
    Usable luggage capacity: 19.1 cu. ft. (0.54 m3) estimate
    With rear seat folded: 46.6 cu. ft. (1.32 m3) estimate
    Under-floor storage locker: 0.6 cu. ft. (0.02 m3)

    OFF-ROAD DIMENSIONS
    Ground clearance:
    Under front suspension: 7.2 in. (186 mm)
    Under rear suspension: 8.4 in. (214 mm)
    Under frame: 8.7 in. (220 mm)
    Angle of approach: 30.5 degrees
    Angle of departure: 33.9 degrees
    Ramp breakover angle: 22 degrees (excluded angle)

    PAYLOAD & TOWING CAPACITY
    Curb weight: 3,444 - 3,585 lb. (1562 - 1626 kg)
    Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: 4,541 lb. (2060 kg)
    Maximum payload: 1,488 - 1,599 lb. (675 - 725 kg)
    Maximum trailer weights:
    Trailers without brakes: 1,650 lb. (750 kg)
    Trailers with brakes: 4,410 lb. (2000 kg)
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    Ok, so production is now increased so that 89,000 Freelanders will be produced per year...And, of these, only 20,000 are slated for the US Market?

    Guess it'll be a long wait to see one in my driveway then.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Was going by what I saw on an internal document, haven't actually measured for myself. I don't know if the 10.5 is along the centerline of the vehicle as is industry practice. The dimensions given look like they used the lowest points no matter where they were. I have no problem with that, as most IRS SUV's (and some with live axles) have much lower true clearances than they advertise. The departure angle is better than the Discovery or Jeep Grand Cherokee and the other angles are quite good for the class.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Posts: 187
    Hey no biggie on the measurements TinCup. I was just curious.

    I compared these specs to the CR-V and they match almost exactly...BUT, the CR-V crushes the Freelander in cargo capacity by some 20 CF.

    The CR-V is a bit narrower, but the tire track of both is identical. This tells me that the Freelander has wider fenders and is beefier.

    Finally, the Freelander at 69 inches is taller than the CR-V, but those 69 inches incluse the tall roof rails, so I am guessing it is then about 65 inches, which is about as tall as the CR-V.

    Of course, all of the CR-V numbers will be moot in a few months when the redesign is introduced.

    All-in-all, interesting to say the least.
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