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Land Rover Freelander

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Comments

  • tpeeltpeel Posts: 17
    This guy knows everything about the freelander.Before you replace your engine-and it should never cost $7,000!
    As a general note, when one of these K16 engines fails in a Freelander it is usually quite 'fixable' with some work. It might involve a lot of work in some instances but even so it's never as bad as is made out. There are only so many things that tend to go wrong with them and it tends to be the same things going wrong. Pistons and liners are easy replaceable, as is the block if necessary and alternative good used cylinder heads are not too difficult to procure. The decision on what is going to need to be done to fix one of the engines is based on simple criteria meaning the repair could be quite inexpensive after the engine has been partially dismantled and checked, or, it is going to take a bit of work and cost some money. Low mileage cars are usually the easy ones to fix because the block is not damaged. As far as I can see many original engines are being replaced with reconditioned ones when there isn't all that much wrong with them.

    The fact that these engines fail prematurely in the first place is a disgrace of course.
  • kpencekpence Posts: 11
    Thanks for your reply tpee.
    It sounds like I need to find an independent mechanic to work on the engine for me.
    If anyone has a good mechanic in the Chicago area they recommend I'd be interested.
    Kim
  • Hi,

    I'm new to the Freelander forum but so far I've the info here very helpful, but it would be EVEN MORE helpful if the folks who post would include the following with their posts...

    Freelander year, model (HSE, SE, SE3), and mileage.

    Also, doeas nayone know if the 05 SE3's are any better than earlier models?

    Thanks!

    ~ Jeff
    2005 Freelander SE3
    26k
  • Arlingtion preformance in arlington hts on rand rd
  • kpencekpence Posts: 11
    Thanks for the referal to Arlington Heights. Why do you recommend them?
    Kim

    2002 Freelander SE
  • kpencekpence Posts: 11
    Hi Jeff,
    Sorry for not including the details of my car! I think I was still in shock.

    I have a 2002 Freelander SE 62k

    Also, I found a mechanic who will put a pull-out engine with 30k miles on it, in the car and guarantee it for around $6,000.00. This still sounds like a lot to me. He said these engines are very expensive? But why are they if they fail?

    Kim
  • Hi all,

    I'm new to the forums and have found the info everyone has posted to be very useful.

    I took a chance and purchased an 05' SE3 w/26k the other day...and so far I love it!

    I am however very concerned about the future with my new freind after reading the numerous posts here and elsewhere on the web.

    My main question is if anyone knows if there were any mechanical updates to the 05's due to all the core problems (coolant leaks, tranny & electrical probs, etc.) or is my 05's engine & trans exactly like an 02 or 03's?

    Also, has anyone had any experience working with the Chicago LR Service Dept. at Howard Orloff's on Armitage? If so, I'd like to hear about your experiences and who you recommend speaking with there.

    Finally, any mechanically minded Hippo owners on the forum that could advise me on any preventative maintenance things I should do now BEFORE my warranty runs out in May of 09?

    Thanks for all you help!

    Cheers,

    ~ Jeff
    2005 SE3 25k :)
  • dli6990dli6990 Posts: 4
    hi jeff:

    I so own a used 2005 freelander SE 5 door in CA, so far i didn't have any major mechanical problem (leaking coolant, transmission problem, or another kind). My advise to you is that beware of the long service interval. Because the coolant will run dry way before the 12000 service interval(i admit it's probably a design flaw), make sure you always have a bottle of coolant at home and check every once in a while, fill up as soon as the coolant dip below the min. line. AND NEVER EVER LET THE COOLANT TANK RUN EMPTY. However, when it's leaking then you better have it cheked, dun let it overheat.

    Well, do expect some little tiny problems that could come in the future, and dun rely on the rev meter maintance light to wait for check ups (after all this is was designed over a decade ago with much design flaws), send the car to service as soon as the 12000 interval is up.

    I'm sure if you can carefully maintain the car, you can continue to enjoy your lovely freelander for many years to come. Ar.....btw, one very common problem is squaeking breaks which I'm experiencing rt. now, jerky acc. at ver low speeds is also a thing about the car, I really dun know if that is a problem or what, but so far I hadn't became a problem for my car.

    Just curious...what milage do u get out of your car? I tried really really hard but I never seems to break the 15 mark... :)
  • dbfinlaydbfinlay Posts: 13
    Regarding your transmission, you should be fine. The Japanese Jatco transmission problems in Freelanders and Jaguar X-Types (identical Tranny) were resolved by 2005. Jaguar serviced their 02-04 customers more aggressively with warranty transmission replacements, Land Rover held it's breath to let each customer pass the warranty period so they would have to pay for the transmission themselves.

    Regarding your Engine, there is very little you can do to avoid complete failure. Your engine was originally designed in the 1980's for a front wheel drive car (The Rover 827i - known in the U.S. as Sterling) Even then that car in the 1980's was "found to have been under-developed and quality and reliability problems soon escalated to a crisis." J.D. Powers, usually known as a marketing arm for auto makers, was openly verbal about this vehicle's shortcomings and failure.

    Installing the already questionable and outdated engine in a heavier all-wheel drive vehicle with off-road opportunities only makes things worse. The failure you will experience is the iron piston sleeves coming loose inside the aluminum block. At first you will experience increased engine noise, especially when you start the vehicle. As it progresses, coolant and motor oil will begin to mix.... and/or become consumed during combustion. Everyone who reports overheating or lack of coolant is way past the failure point of these engines. The symptoms they report are the result of the failure, not the cause of failure.

    Once you engine does fail, the story gets worse.

    Land Rover says the engine and tolerances are too delicate to be re-built at the dealership. The engine factory (Rover) is now out of business, closed and defunct. The tooling for this engine was sold to a Chinese company and shipped far-east. For the last 2-3 years, Land Rover has contracted that Chinese company to "keep things running". Land Rover ships failed engine blocks to China to be re-built. There are no new engine blocks. Every $7000-$8000 engine job in this forum includes a motor that has failed at least once already. Your replacement motor will not last as long as the first one.

    My first motor lasted 48K miles. My second motor went 18K miles. It failed 15 days after the one year warranty. Service records were found to be in order, but the determination was “tough luck”. 15 days over, so I had to pay for a third motor.

    What caused this predicament? Worldwide Freelanders are an awesome vehicle. However those are all four-cylinder gas or diesel vehicles with stick-shifts. Your engine and transmission is a marketing "cob job" for the "American Market".

    My Freelander is gone, but just today I was at the Dealer having my Jaguar serviced, and I inquired how things were going with the Freelander product. There's a new policy. The dealer can no longer simply order a motor when one fails. Each vehicle must be “evaluated” by the factory. Apparently, they have begun to run out of engine blocks in repairable condition.

    Land Rover was sold by Ford to Tata in India this morning. You can only expect more complication in keeping this vehicle on the road – at any cost.

    Trade it in in good conscience.

    Dave
  • tpeeltpeel Posts: 17
    hi folks,

    update from the english forum from a person in the know-
    It's fair to say that the later thermostat was an uprated one but I don't consider that a modification. Engines factory fitted with these thermostats are failing the same as the previous ones. The later thermostat has a variable temperature range versus loading, that is, under load and more heat being generated, the engine temperature is lowered to 78-80 degrees C. Conversely if the engine is under light loading the engine's coolant temperature is allowed to increase to 95-97 degrees C. It's a good idea but it doen't save the engine from blowing its SLS head gasket.

    The THREE major problems are in the engine and one of them is the SLS head gasket which was simply not robust enough over time.

    The cooling system issues would not have happened if the basic design faults were not present in the engine. All of the cooling system configurations have been okay even though Rover/ Land Rover didn't actually follow the well know paths of automotive engineering. No one in their right mind for example would design and fit the return pipe over the back of the engine like Rover did. What were they thinking of? It doesn't look right because it isn't. I can't think of one automotive design engineer that I know who would pass it.

    The problem with the car passing all tests is the time frame. The gasket deteriorates over time and use, not just use. Thousands of miles in a few months is okay.

    The K16 and KV6 that are rebuilt and modified by Heritage Mechanical Services in New Zealand are not failing but it is still early days unfortunately. These engines are rebuilt correctly and include modifications. The block coolant ones were devised by myself. Nothing can be done about the cylinder head. The claim is that the engines have been made reliable enough.

    There is no getting away from it, these engines have some ridiculous design aspects to them and the fault is Rovers.

    As an asside, the original long bolts are fine for re-use provided they measure the prescribed length. I have never seen an original Rover bolt fail, they are top quality bolts. I've seen a replacement part manufacturers bolts fail.
  • sripleysripley Posts: 39
    Please count me in on any class action lawsuit, my SUV died in February from the Head Gasket Failure/Coolant Leaking into the Oil Issue described numerous times in these forums:

    If you would like more information on the car's engine defective design (even Land Rover mechanics have posted in these other forums advising the Chinese Manufactured K-1 Engine is to blame for all of these over-heating & related issues), also I had the same regulator break on the passenger rear window, cost me about $450 to have dealer-service fix that, and Fuel Pump broke at about 70,000 miles, cost about $750 to fix that (and it breaks because the filter is attached to the fuel pump assembly, so it's designed to eventually clog and require this repair). I agree, the break pads wear and rotors require re-cut and then replacement at every 15,000 miles (so re-cut at 15K, then replace at 30K, and so forth)--

    forums.preloved.co.uk

    www.landyzone.co.uk

    home.austarnet.com.au/edwardsonline/freelanderheadgasket

    This was the worst vehicle I have ever owned, including the old used car I got when I was 18yrs old. I hope and believe there will be a Freelander Class Action Lawsuit eventually, but will probably be years from now, at least that was what the attorney said. He also said you can try to sue Land Rover for the repair costs incurred, but its an uphill battle. He suggested getting rid of the vehicle quickly, as did the dealership mechanic that I spoke with in December. Everyone apparently knows this vehicle is junk, but us, or we do now.


    Land Rover Maintenance and Repair
  • Hello every 1 i need help on a 2002 freelander se edition i got a check engine light 10 days ago and my mechanic told me it was codes po171 and po 174 which are the front left and right rear oxygen sensors i placed an order at the dealership for those same oxygen senors and my mechanic replaced the bad ones when i got back the vehicle 4 days later the check engine light came back on with the same codes i took it back to my mechanic he told me that something else is knocking off the oxygen senors in which is not working properly any one with some insights please help me with some info thanks alot
  • trburtontrburton Posts: 22
    Sell the thing before your engine & transmission goes! I am still in court over my 2002 Freelander. Transmission gone at 45,000 & engine blew at 52,000. If you are not the original owner check the serial numbers on your engine. Land Rover dealers do not report major problems to Car Facts on purpose, so 2nd owners never know problems of the first owner. If the engine does go, the dealership is instructed to lie about the cause.
  • im the second owner vehicle but here in charlotte nc the dealer ship had taken care of it on the 36,000 mile warranty booklet inside the glove box now i have on 48,510 miles on it right now i was just curious on what needed to do on what causes the oxygen senors being affected when i already changed them let me know on some insights thanks alot????
  • sripleysripley Posts: 39
    Not to question what codes the mechanic identified, but that check engine light does come on for alot more than just that issue (this vehicle is poorly designed so diagnosing the real issue is often through the symptoms that the sensors notice), that if you were experiencing the Head Gasket Failure issue could trip the sensor as the burning coolant certainly will fault the engine. I dont know why the oxygen sensor would be the standalone issue.

    At $100 or more for them to do their computer-diagnosis, you would be strongly advised to trade in the vehicle while you still can. You should be able to reset the check engine light error by removing the batter connection for 15 minutes and then reconnecting (I was told this by the mechanic). That will force a reset of the check engine light and any other faults. Of course if they are still occuring, you will just have to either trade it in "as is" or you would be guessing what else was causing the fault.
  • orca08orca08 Posts: 5
    OMG! I have a 2003 Freelander SE with the exact same engine problem at 54000 miles. It started with the coolant problem and overheating, they kept sending me away with a supposed fix but it never fixed the problem - perhaps they were trying to wait until my extended warranty expires in August?! Thank goodness I pestered them until they looked into it - now it won't cost me thousands!
    Have had problems with the sun roof and windows not working, brake lights have gone out numerous times, alignment seems always to be a bit off so my tires wear wrong, all the plastic pieces have broken (center compartment between driver and passenger, jack compartment in back)
    Anyone else notice that the breaks wear out unusually quickly and cost about 5 times that of other vehicles?? And that you can't get out of the dealership under 2K every time you take it in?
    This is insane, I am trading it in for a RAV4 as soon as they replace the engine!
    Nice to know I am not alone - thought I bought a lemon, but sounds like the entire freelander population is lemonized!
  • sripleysripley Posts: 39
    Yes, trade it in as soon as they replace the engine, that the new engine will likely be a refurbished engine (they arent producing any more of these crappy engines any longer). I also had a rear window regulator break (cost $475 to replace/fix), and had the same sun roof mechanism fail (but I just kept it closed for the last 2 yrs).

    The engine/Head Gasket Issue is the repair that is the most critical and terminal condition for the vehicle. The dealers mechanics will never fix the gasket, so they will only offer the engine replacement, but either repair will cost you more than the SUV is worth.

    And yes, the brake pads and then rotors wear out very quickly, because of the weight of the vehicle (the dealer says). I personally think it has more to do with the fact that there are 2 disc front brakes and 2 drum rear brakes on the vehicle, hence the wear and weight all goes to the front of the vehicle. Another poor design flaw issue, and I was told the drum brakes were there to better allow the off-roading. Yeah, who ever could off road these things, they fall apart on the driveway!

    You will notice when you goto trade it in exactly how worthless the vehcile/blue book value is. No one wants these SUV's, rightly so, as issues like this make the word lemon seem like we are being too nice in the description. I call these vehicles Fraudulently Misrepresented Stress Causing Money Wasting PIles of Steel and Bolts.
  • orca08orca08 Posts: 5
    HA! regarding the brakes, they told me that the reason they wear out so fast is that "Americans use them much more than Brits. In the UK, they down shift to stop."
    Not sure how to downshift to stop in an automatic...but whatever...

    Good thing the "new" engine will only cost me $100 since it is still under warranty, but lord only knows how long it will be in the shop waiting for the new engine to arrive, good thing they give me a rental or I would be flipping out! I had a brake line issue that took weeks to even get the part in! Oh Joy!
    :lemon:

    "Yeah, who ever could off road these things, they fall apart on the driveway! ...
    I call these vehicles Fraudulently Misrepresented Stress Causing Money Wasting PIles of Steel and Bolts." ROFLMAO!
  • orca08orca08 Posts: 5
    Oh Yeah! And my wipers won't work if it gets below 32 degrees out until the car warms up - it's all a crying shame, really, since it's a blast to drive!
    I sorta have a love hate relationship with mine at this point... :confuse:
  • my mechanic told me that since i changed my oxygen sensor in which im the second owner of my 2002 freelander se edition he found out that my air filter was never changed out on a 48,500 miles so he told me that since no air filter is changed out since its first bought it could be not geting enough air through the air filter which is acting up on the oxygen sensor so he changed air filter for me and reseted my bank 1 front oxygen code he told me to drive it for about 60 to 70 miles to see if thats the problem if check engine light kicks on means a different issue well see.
  • I just filed a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. They told me that they only have 29 complaints and if there were more than they could require Land Rover to have a recall.

    We have a 2003 Freelander with 37,000 miles that has a problem too with the head gasket failure. The engine is shot, they can't get a replacement and if they could our car is over 4 years old it is not under warranty. We lodged a complaint March 08 to the Land Rover company and they said that they can't get a new engine and they need to take care of the cars that are under warranty first. And even if they could get a new engine it will cost us as we are out of warranty. It makes no sense that they will not take responsibility for something like a defective engine and have all the freelander with this problem and get away with this type of negligence.

    Thank God no one got hurt driving this car.

    How can we use this forum to get more complaints filed with National Highway Traffic Safety Administration http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

    If that could be figured out then Land Rover would be forced to recall these car engines. EVERY ONE LODGE A COMPLAINT

    Do you have any ideas how to get a large group to contact the NHTSA?
  • sripleysripley Posts: 39
    I filed complaint today, thanks for the link/info. I was told by an attorney that if I incurred all the costs for a new engine, he could sue Land Rover/Dealer for the costs, but wasnt worth it, why spend the money on a new engine when the same defect will happen, if you can even get a new engine.

    I hope enough complaints foster some sort of action against the company. Who knows..
  • wonwon Posts: 1
    I have this code in my 02 LR freelander S

    Has anyone figured out what this code means?

    I avoid the LR dealership after they did not diagnose a problem at 47,000 miles that forced me to buy a new engine.

    now a transmission?

    thanks.
  • trburtontrburton Posts: 22
    F4 means: Sell Me Now, before my wheels fall off! I am now in a lawsuit with Ford Credit because of the same problem. When the transmission failed at 45,000 miles, I also started to have engine noise. Dealer said no problem. Engine died at 52000 miles and it was towed. The dealership replaced the engine without my consent & Ford would not pay for the replacement. Ford Credit ( Land Rover Credit same as Ford Credit, Primus, Etc;) then added the dealership's repair bill to my note & demanded immediate payment of $7225. The main offices of Land Rover Credit are near the local dealership. This was 18 months ago & the suit will come back to court in June.
  • dli6990dli6990 Posts: 4
    I know I cut in the middle of a discussion, but can you guys tell me what is the avg. gas mileage you guys get on your freelanders, becuse I had been reading lots of user review and many of them saids they avg. 19 - 21 combimed mileage(which is like unbelieveble to me!!!)DO they drive super slow and never really acc. the car or something?

    I had tried desperately hard but I had never seemed to get pass the 16s(sometimes it even drops to 14 :mad: !!)

    Plz, I had always wanted to know since the first day I lowned this car.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,583
    We're multi-threaded here, just like a conversation at a car show, so jump right in.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • dli6990dli6990 Posts: 4
    thanks...but u really didn't answer my question :)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,583
    Yeah, but I don't own a Freelander - just wanted you to feel welcome jumping in!

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • rgunnrgunn Posts: 17
    I am new to the forum but not new to Landrovers problems. I just hade a head gasket replaced at 80,000 miles. I have a 2002 freelander. I have a feeling the transmission isnt going to last real long either. I have sent in a complaint. I really hope something gets done before something eles happens to the p.o.s. that I still owe money on. I really feel bad for everyone going though this. Its not right. Please keep me posted as to what is going on.
  • orca08orca08 Posts: 5
    TRADE IT IN IMMEDIATELY!
    I picked up my rover from the dealership after they replaced the head gasket and traded it in same day for a RAV4 - best thing I ever did. The 4 cylinder RAV 4 has more zip and runs much smoother than my freelander, and much more reliable! I love it!
    That Land Rover was nothing but a money pit!
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