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Nissan Altima



  • cncmancncman Posts: 487
    I think you are arguing a different point, I have already said and agreed that most people shop the maxima VS the camcords, I have never said they did not. I do not care what people compare with or what edmunds compares with, if you want to follow the herd, go ahead. Look up the word compare, it means "to consider as similar, equal or analgous"

    Again, for the umpteenth time, let me repeat what I am saying and then I am going to leave this alone, and we can all talk about the new vehicles,

    It is more reasonable to compare a 155hp 4 cylinder car with 94cft of space to a
    150hp 4 cylinder car with 96.9cft of space than to compare a 96.9cft 150hp 4
    cylinder to a 102.5cft 222hp V6 car.

    The altima is a more COMPARABLE car to the camcord 4cylinders than the 4cylinder camcords are to the maxima, numbers don't lie! There is no way you can logically disagree with this.
  • har1bushhar1bush Posts: 207
    I totally agree with what you are saying but I have no clue what wenyue is getting at here... I think it all started when I simply said that the Maxima outsells the V6 Camry and Accord models and that Maxima is priced and equipped closer to the V6 Camcords than the 4 cylinder Camcords. Just let wenyue think whatever he wants and leave it at that (afterall, his argument now seems to be based on the automated edmunds "alternatives" list... give me a break!).

    Also, what is the difference if Nissan priced a fully loaded Altima SE V6 at 26K or 25K? The fact is that people will be attracted by its base price (which would probably be around 22K). A fully loaded Altima will have many features that the Accords do not have. Just going by the pricing of the Maximas (which has always been higher than the Accord and Camry V6 models), I think it's clear that Nissan isn't going to shy away with their prices when they know they have a good car put out. Reliability? Maximas are just as reliable as an Accord these days and their resale values have been comparable... there is no doubt that the Altima will do just as well (after it gets over the new model kinks). This is an all new car -- you can't simply put a stamp on it and say... since the old Altima sucked, this car will too.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    I'm simply disagreeing when har1bush stated that the current Altima one the market is a competior for the Accord/Camry 4.

    That's simply not true. And anyone who has any feel for the market knows that's not true. And I bought on Edmunds' and other authoritative automotive to strengthen my point, and made it completely clear. NONE of those automotive experts, (me, you, har1bush doesn't count as automotive experts), consider the Altima to be a competing model for the Camcorder.

    And for the last time: the current ALTIMA IS NOT a competitor for the Accord/Camry 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder. Only the Maxima is the Accord/Camry competitor, and the fact that Maxima has only V6 does not change the fact that it stands competes agains the whole Accord/Camry line up.

    I agree numbers don't lie. But neither does the market analysis. It's quite plain and clear. And there is no way you can logically or realistically disagree with me on this.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    I'm still yet to see you back up your statment that the Altima is a competitor for the Accord/Camry. I have edmund's, an authoritative source supporting my claim. How about backing yourself up with other than just personal claims.

    "afterall, his argument now seems to be based on the automated edmunds "alternatives" list... give me a break!)."

    Hmm... automated. Care to back up another one of your claims? Or are you just make things up without any evidence? Maybe I should give you a break instead? Let's see, should I take your words for the truth or Edmund's.... Tough decision there.

    I said the Altima needs to price it self lower than the Accord to be certain of coming out winning. And that's based on past experience when an underdog car try to upset the market leader (Lexus LS400, Acura TL). Not only did they offer more of a car (which the new Altima is), but they also had to offer a lower price (what at $26K like you suggest, won't).

    This is of course, a point of contension that won't be resolved until the car has hit the market. And this, I can agree to disagree. And for all we know, Nissan probably will be smart enough not to price the car higher than a loaded Accord ($25K).
  • cncmancncman Posts: 487
    "I agree numbers don't lie. But neither does the market analysis. It's quite plain and clear. And there is no way you can logically or realistically disagree with me on this."

    WE ARE ARGUING TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!, market research has nothing to do with size and horsepower. let's make it easy,
    You are saying that most people that cross-shop camcords compare with the maxima not the altima, I'm not denying this. You win! Point taken! No problem! Now slow down and listen, You can compare two things that are dissimilar, but two disimilar things are not comparable by definition. A 4cylinder camcord is not COMPARABLE to a maxima in anything other than the fact that they are all darn fine japanese sedans and no reasonable person would suggest this, they are not comparable in size, power, engine etc. In this case the altima is a more COMPARABLE vehicle to 4 cylinder camcords. I understand what you are saying, why can't you catch on to what I am saying so we can all move on and stop taking up space talking about vehicles that aren't going to be around anymore?
  • kartezkartez Posts: 48
    Why don't you guys checkout the Nissan website and see if Nissan compares Altima with Camcord.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558

    Anyway. I'm glad that you agree with my point. Good.

    While I would still disagree that Altima is more comparable to the camcord (midsize car vs compact, "almost" being able to seat 5, just doesn't make it comparable to a midsize car), but I also grow tired of all this debate. I do believe that everyone has had a good view of both sides of the arguement.

    Let's move on, if you still wish.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Now, before anyone gets the impression that I'm a CamCorder lover, I just want to say that I don't own either one of those vehicles. My parents had a Camry, but not I.

    I am on the market for a family car, just as the next guy. Planning on getting a new one late this year or first half of next year. And certaintly, the info on 2002 Altima has peaked my interst.

    Now back to the old topic before the debate about the current Altima interrepted it. How much would the 2002 Altima is likely to cost? How much do you, fellow car shoppers/buyers/owners, based up your feel for the market, think it should cost to hit the "sweet spot"?

    I would say that the 3.5 SE should top out at no more than $25K MSRP, no more than then Honda Accord. And preferablly, I would hope it would be more like $24K MSRP, to desolve some of the concerns over Nissan's resale value and lower gas milage. What do you all say?
  • jimxojimxo Posts: 423
    I would say $26,500 will get you everything on a SE.

    Moon roof
    Automatic Transmission (people lets get back to 5-speeds)
    Climate control
    Traction Control
    HID Head lamps

    I am hoping to get a SE with for $24,000 ($21,800 invoice + 4% over) with the following equipment.

    cloth interior
    Moon roof
    Option package that includes Bose radio.
    Standard head lamps
    rear spoiler
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    IMO, the pre 2002 Altima competed directly against the 4cylinder versions of the Camry and Accord and the Maxima took on the V6s. Don't tell me prospective buyers of the Camry LE and Accord LX didn't cross shop the Altima GXE/GLE.
    As for press comparisons, one need not look any further than the Sept 99 of Car and Driver issue to find the 4cly Altima, Camry and Accord pitted against each other (and others) or the July 98 issue to see the Maxima, Camry V6, and Accord V6 face off.

    But with the new Altima and updated Maxima, I think most consumers are going to be baffled as to which car they are supposed to be looking at in the midsize family field. Its not as clear cut a difference as with the Camry and Avalon, IMO, for instance. I wonder just how well this strategy (or lack thereof) is going to work for Nissan.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    If you think that the Maxima V6 rather it be GXE, SE, or GLE is comparable with a base line Camcord I4, how can you say that WE cannot compare an Altima to a Camcord. I recall Car and Driver having a comparison with the Galant, Altima, Camry, and Accord back some time last year I believe. The Accord was at one time a compact car don't you know, back from 1990 until 1997(4 and 5 generation models) yet the Accord was still compared with the Camry, and at some times sold more than the Camry, so if you are saying that the Altima, given it's current size is not comparable with I4 Camrys and Accords you are simply wrong.

    Also, why would Nissan offer the Maxima with a 4 cylinder engine, the Maxima has always had a 6 cylinder I6 in the first generation. The Maxima is a slight step above the Camcords, it offers more, and is most times more sporty and luxurious(SE and GLE anyway.)

  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    Motortrend's October or November 2000 issue had a comparison between the Maxima GXE, Camry LEV6 and Accord EXV6.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Look around in the car market. See how often Altima comes up on the same shopping list as Accord/Camry (4 cylinders even), then you know what I'm talking about.

    Accord/Camry is designed from the start to seat 5, haul a family of 2 adults and 3 kids -- hence the "family car" title they become known for.

    Altima (until 2002 model), has only been designed to carry 4, it can almost carry 5 packed tight, but can't really cut it (close but no cigar). Due to this, it's never been in the same class, commonly do not share the same shopping list.

    For example, I actually consided the Altima when I was looking for a COMPACT car for my wife few years ago. But ended up settling for the Mazda Protege, since it was roomier than the Altima still. But now that I'm looking for a family car, I didn't even consider the 2002 Altima until news leaked out that it was becoming bigger than the Camrcorders.

    The car market falls into differe segments/catagories. And Altima falls into the intermediate catagor of large compacts. Larger than many of the smaller compacts, but not large enough to compete for the same role as the Camcorders.

    Same reason why Maxima is in the same class as the Accord/Camrys. And while it's on the large end of the midsize cars, it's not a full size car. Why? Because it isn't designed like the Ford Crown Victoria/Toyota Avalon to seat 6 people. Hence it doesn't compete directly against them.

    Most car buyers shop with a set of goals they need to achieve. They want to haul an typical american family (2 adults and 2.5 kids), they shoot for the midsize, not something smaller. If they want a highway cruiser, they go looking for a fullsize, not something other than that.

    That's why Altima doesn't directly compete with the Camry/Accord -- it simply can't fulfill the roles the latters can.

    That's why the Altima didn't appear on my midsize car shopping list until now. Now, the 2002 Altima finally has the ability to actually compete as a midsize car. Simple? I hope that ends it.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    ...but I still cannot see where the Accord and Camry I4 compete with the Maxima, actually, the Avalon is only slightly larger than the Maxima I believe, it is really not as big as the LeSabre and Crown Vic, but it is a full size car. The Altima is doing exactly what Honda did back in 1998, back before then, the Accord was a large compact(like the current Altima is now) but for 1998 it finally became a midsize car, but it was still compared with the Camry, which has been a midsize car for a while now, I have seen people cross shop from the Camcords to the Altima. The Altima was usually choosen if people could not afford the Camcords, but I still think that the Altima is somewhat a competitor to the I4 Camrcords, but the Maxima is not IMO, it competes with the high end Camcords.

    Maxima competes with:
    GXE: Accord LXV6/Camry LEV6
    SE: None of them really
    GLE: Accord EXV6/Camry XLEV6

    Also, the Passat is a compact car, would you say it doesn't compete with the Accord and Camry, even though did a review of the Passat, Maxima, Accord and many others. The Passat might be smaller than the Camcords in dimensions, but in real life seating, it actually feels roomier.
  • ludacrisludacris Posts: 185
    Okay first of all as maxamillion said the Altima has been in comparisons against 4 cylinder Camrys/Accords. There was one a year or so ago title was something like "Cicada" or something. The one where the Mitsubishi Galant beat the Accord. Anyway the Altima ended up in the middle of the pack.

    If I had to put the Altima up against cars in the same size class I'd say the Chevy Malibu, Mitsubishi Galant, VW jetta, etc. But price wise the Altima IS up against 4 cylinder camcords. People that consider Maxima's dont want 4 cylinder engines, we didnt. When I stopped by my Nissan dealership the other weekend a salesman was showing a Maxima to a woman boasting of the V6 and she said "The thing is, I don't care about the V6. I'm fine with 4 cylinders". She then went on to ask about the Altima. V6 Maximas and 4 cylinder Accords/Camrys don't compare, pricewise, performance wise, blah blah. The only thing they're comparable on is size.

    Nissan has said that the Maxima's main competitors are the Acura TL, Toyota Avalon, etc. (from Autoweek magazine). Which sorta makes the I30 redundant..but i agree with them. The way I see it, the base Maxima GXE is up against better equipped Accord/Camry 4 cylinders or base V6s. Maxima SE is up against the Grand Prix GTP, Acura TL-S, etc. Maxima GLE up against high end V6 Camcords, Acura TL, I30 (go figure!), etc.

    Offering a 4 cylinder in the Maxima would be an insult to the name. How can a flagship have a 4 cylinder?!
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    The last time I bought an Accord, I did not bother looking at the Camtimas because the Camry was so boring inside and out and the Altima as so ugly and I wanted a V6 anyway. The Maxima was too expensive.
    Now the Camry and Altima will be something to look at especially since the Accord design is aging.
    Both look good for what they are. The Altima will be sporty and for the people who are disappointed that there is no 3.5 SL so they can have all the luxuries and softer, quieter ride of the SL as well as the power of the V6, will go buy a 2002 Camry LE or XLE V6 instead.
    People who are disappointed in any potential cheap plastic interior of the new Altima, will also go to the Camry since the rumor is that Toyota is going to undo some of the decontenting of the Camry that started with the 97 model.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    The 97 Accord also puzzled me. It wasn't big enough to really fill the role of a family car. The only explaination I have is that it was selling by repuatation alone. It lacked a V6, it lacked room. It wasn't really a competitor for the Camry. But it sold well... I guess people just bought into the Honda's myth.

    "I have seen people cross shop from the Camcords to the Altima."

    Yes, that's the exception rather than the norm. THere will always be exceptions, but the number isn't really large enough to matter.

    "The Altima was usually choosen if people could not afford the Camcords"

    Well, if you don't have the money, then you have to settle for something less, smaller, cheaper. Isn't that standard fare in the world?

    We then differ on one point only. You consider the Maxima to only compete against V6 camcorders, while I consider it competes against both the V6 and I4.

    You are basing your opinion on the fact that Maxima only has V6 engine, while Accord and Camry has also I4 versions available.

    While I'm basing my opinion on the fact that the Maxima is the only Nissan car that's in the same class as both the I4 and V6 camcords.


    Also, the Passat is classified as a midsize. It's designed to seat 5, and it is classified by EPA accordingly as a midsize.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    You said you would put the Altima in the same class as the Chevy Malibu. My sentement exactly. It's a large compact. But not typically considered a midsize/family car, like the Accord/Camry I4.

    Price wise, the a loaded Altima can go into the territory of the low end camcords. But that's natual since there is always some over lap between the ends of the 2n different classes.
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