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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    the 2002 CR-V copied the body style of the Ford Escape. Some can say that it is an evolution of the last generation CR-V, but it just so happens that the new CR-V evolved to look quite similar in body form to the Escape.

    So I guess it evens out the score.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    the front bumper, I don't see anything on the CRV copied from Escape. I'd love to find out where do they resemble. CRV is another example of evolution, I will try to post comparative pictures here later.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    With side views of both models. You will see how the CR-V resembles the Escape in the execution of the car's overall shape. It basically looks like an Escape with rear tail lights that runs the 3/4 length of the whole back and a spare tire tacked on. Now compare that with a picture of the outgoing CR-V model, and it's obvious where Honda received its inspirations.
  • himilerhimiler Posts: 1,209
    Can we keep this a SUV-Free Zone? It suffices to say that all the "cute-utes" pretty much look the same in my rear-view mirror.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    But we were discussing how people were accusing Honda of copying Ford Focus's headlamps, which is simply not true.

    However, my point was that Honda is guilty of copying other cars, just as every other automaker is.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    When the CRV comes out, check every panel there is. I bet you'll see an evolution. The upper rear quarter is more 'squarish' now (earlier it was rounded and tapered), which to me seems to resemble a Land Rover. In fact, the CRV now looks like a baby MDX, except for the fact that the liftgate is more angular in the Acura.

    Escape to me looks like a baby Explorer to me, which makes sense as well. Although I always thought that the Explorer was sitting on its butt while being driven around.

    We can discuss this in CRV (SUV) thread though, where I have posted pictures.
  • The Temple of VTEC has a news item referring to Autoweek's test of the new Civic Si hatchback in Germany. Autoweek's article mentions that the spring/shock rates of the new Si are almost identical to those of the European Civic Type-R, that the acceleration/speed is not as dramatic as past Si's (even though the 0-60 acceleration figure is expected to remain unchanged), that the 50-80 m/hr acceleration time is lower than that of the B16A Si, and that the vehicle is estimated to weigh over 2700 lbs (This is most likely due to the weight of the larger engine. However, I am surprised that the changeover to a Hatchback body does not compensate for the added weight of the engine.)

    You may view the news item at the following address: <http://www.vtec.net/news/items/850.html>
  • himilerhimiler Posts: 1,209
    The extra weight isn't under the hood, I'm afraid. Just look at the poor thing...it's too friggin' long and tall! A 2700lb. "performance" car riding on skinny 195/60-15 tires? What a cruel joke from Honda this has turned out to be.

    Let's review: for around 20(!) Large, you get a bloated, underpowered, under-tired (in typical Honda fashion) car that could only look stylish to anyone over the age of 60.

    Honda is doing the right thing by only importing 15,000 of 'em. The words of Mr.T come to mind--"I pity the fool!"
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    Unfourtunately, much of the weight is in the body structure which enables the Si to score well in crash tests. No real way around that, unless you build an aluminum frame and body. The hatchback style is a welcome breath of fresh air in Honda's otherwise bland lineup. Over 60s usually won't go near a hatchback. I think the tires are 16" not 15", but agree that it is still undertired, like every other Honda made.
  • ... has a somewhat disjointed article on the new Si, and a cover photo to boot. The more I read about this car, the less interested I am. Glad I have a deposit down on a new Mini Cooper :) It won't be as fast as an Si, but I'm betting it will be better built and more fun to drive.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    I think Honda was too busy focusing on the Ford Focus when they redesigned the Civic. The Focus hatchback is just too bulbous, and Honda jumped to mimic it because they saw the sales number for the Ford. The last generation Civic hatchback was the best looking one.
  • periwonperiwon Posts: 15
    Is now on their online site:


    http://www.autoweek.com/


    It's not really a road test, but more of a driving impression, without any test data. I'd think that the SI should perform just the same as the base RSX. Speaking of the RSX, has anyone seen a test of the base one? All those I've read have been for the Type S.

  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    Must they test drive the car in the rain...I hate when these journalists do that.

    Although from those pictures, the wheels don't look so small.
  • nakinsnakins Posts: 2
    I really doubt that Honda took the design for the Si from the Focus. If you look at the headlights, for example, they are definitely of Asian inspiration. American car makers have always be the last to mod headlights, an then, they follow European trends. There was probably a concept car a few years ago that introduced this Si/Focus look that everyone is copying. Even a couple of Peugeot's look like this.
    From what I've read, Honda is trying to build cars under a global model process, such that the same model can be sold all over the world with little or no or easily done mods. And this makes sense. However, There are a number of cars that Honda makes that will never see the light of a North American day. As far as I can tell, The Stream, the Civic Vi, and the Jazz (Fit), are going to be sold everywhere except North America. Why? It's not because we drive on the right side of the road. It because North American market wants just the opposite of what everyone else wants. We want big SUV's and cars that look like they cost more than they really do, or cars that project an image of wealth (whether we have that wealth to back it up or not). They (the rest of the world) has to contend with gas prices that would turn Americans inside out if they had to pay what they do.
    The hatchback in the US has never been a car for the successful image that Americans crave, thanks to American Motors (the Gremlin and Pacer folks).
    The Civic and Accord coupes and sedans have have that image. And there lies the problem for Honda and the rest.
    Americans are tired of Mini-Vans, They are for the lower classes now. SUV's will go the same way when everyone gets tired of asking them what soccer team their kids play on. And if gas prices got back up to the near $2.00 a gallon price of so not so long ago, pickup trucks and the like are going to be put under tarps along with the boat.
    I suggest that everyone go take a look at European/Asian/Down under car web sites and see what we won't be getting.
  • 1) I can't understand why it weighs 2,700 lbs empty. (that's 850 lbs more than my old '85 Civic S)
    2) Honda could've at LEAST let it have the base RSX engine, Si torque gets de-rated to 130lb-ft.
    3) One good news, hybrid (engine swap) should be easy fitting a RSX-S engine into the 2001-2 Civic DX coupe (2405 lbs empty).
    4) I am a American who still enjoy the minivan, our '97 Grand Voyager SE is a perfect family vehicle.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    1) I can't understand why it weighs 2,700 lbs empty. (that's 850 lbs more than my old '85 Civic S)
    My guess is about 2650 lb. (about 35-40 lb. more than the 2000 Civic SI). Every car is getting heavier by year. 2600 lb. (Civic) to 2900 lb. (Sentra V-Spec) is becoming the norm of compact cars. There are too few cars in the sub 2500 lb category (Insight, Echo, MR-S), base Celica GT and Miata barely make it with near 2500 lb. curb weight.

    2) Honda could've at LEAST let it have the base RSX engine, Si torque gets de-rated to 130lb-ft.
    It is probably the same engine, but quite likely not being advertised with the same rating, if that happens. The other variations of the 2.0 liter I-4, all have 138-141 lb.-ft in Japanese market but only 154 HP.
    When Honda launched the new Civic Type-R in Japan, it got a reduction in 'peak' torque from 152 lb.-ft to 148 lb.-ft (compared to 2002 Integra Type-R), but there was also a drop in peak power from 220 HP (ITR) to 215 HP (CTR). I don't see a drop in power happening in this case, as the Civic SI has a 160 HP engine, just like RSX (base).

    3) One good news, hybrid (engine swap) should be easy fitting a RSX-S engine into the 2001-2 Civic DX coupe (2405 lbs empty).
    I'm not sure how that is going to work. The new 2.0 liter engine is quite possible similar in external dimensions (and weight) as the current Civic 1.7 liter engine, but spins in the opposite direction.
  • I'm afraid 2002 Golf GTI 1.8T with 180hp/174 lb.-ft torque'll eat the Civic Si/Acura RSX alive.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    Those numbers look impressive. But I think it's rational to wait and see how much the VW will weigh, as well as the gearing ratios.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I'm afraid 2002 Golf GTI 1.8T with 180hp/174 lb.-ft torque'll eat the Civic Si/Acura RSX alive.
    If that is the case, you shouldn't worry too much about Civic SI.
  • 2002 Sentra SE-R spec v, would you believe $17,539 including the $540 destination charge...that's the MSLP.

    175 hp/180 lb.-ft torque with 6-sp manual, 2743 lbs. empty.

    TMV depends on the demand

    165 hp/175 lb.-ft torque 5-sp SE-R could be had for $16,539
This discussion has been closed.