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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier
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Comments
Pro: Looks better to me than Focus; Shifter could be shorter
Cons: Defective A/C control; Gas mileage around 24/25 on a daily 60miles RT on Highway; Can't find ideal sitting position; Seat belt too far away to reach (unless I increase the seatback angle but then the steering wheel is too far away); Lousy tires causing slippage in the snowy/wet conditions; Weak stereo; More to come...
Red is HOT. <----In auto's red is ALWAYS HOT! But A nice device to purchace is a current detector. These can be had at ANY auto store for a couple of bucks. It looks like a magik marker and you touch the line and if current is flowing, a light lights up. Great tool for anyone who has doubts.
For your convenience, look for a direct link to our new Civic Si / Sir problems discussion in the Helpful Links box on the left side of this page. You'll also find a direct link to this discussion in the Helpful Links over there. ;-)
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
Yesterday I went to purchase a new Civic Si in NJ and was given a seriously poor deal. I was given a price of $15,800 for a 2002 Civic SI, with a trade in on a 2000 Civic DX (20,000 miles)of only $7500, the funny thing is that I bought the car at their dealership, what a joke. They kept trying to tell me that the car came out in 2002 (even though its well known that the 2002 models come out in September of 2001), and kept refusing to go lower on anything.
They were offering a special on the 2002 SI, last weekend of $14,830 but when I asked them about it, they said that it was a mistake and the dealership was not honoring it, is that legal?
Anyway, I think that even without the trade-in they would have given me the car for $15,800, which is not bad. Probably, the dealerships will not go under that number.
Due to the fact that they consistently kept BS-ing for about 2 hours, lying about every feature of the car as well as the deal itself, I walked out. Wow, too bad, I guess Planet Honda in NJ here I come.
Has anyone gotten a price bellow $15,800 yet?
By the way Paramus Honda in NJ is not the way to go, BELEIVE ME!!!
The old bait and switch lives on. I'm not sure in NJ, but in some states this is not legal. If it were a mistake, the ad should not have been run.
Regarding getting a price below $15,800, the dealer I was dealing with gave me a price of $16,449 + TTL + (BS)fees. With college rebate, the price was $15,699 +TTL+(BS)fees. I have not bought the Si yet.
Includes freight, there is a $50 doc fee and no tax for out of state buyers. I've seen the Si advertises for as little as $14,495 including freight but the dealer that was advertising this has no more 2002 Si.
Trade in values are terrible right now, glut of used cars and rebates on new ones.
For most people buying a car a long distance away is not an option but I just bought a Tacoma 700 miles away from where I live. Airfare was less than $100 and I flew down in morning and was home same night, dealership picked me up at airport. I got what I wanted and saved money.
Impressive results for the crash testing of Civic Si. Thanks to gee35 for telling me where to find the results.
I am not the die-hard, squeeze-every-nickel-out bargainer for cars that many others on these boards are, so maybe that is just routine, even for a new model?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Are all the 2002s finally gone? My local dealer barely stocks this model at all. They do big business in Odyssey, and now Pilot - I am in the burbs. CRV is also selling like hot cakes, and now the new Accord is common to see as well.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Seeing Honda is billing the Si as a sportiest Civic that they sell, they ought to have more aggressive tires and 16" if not 17" rims standard from the factory. At least offer it as a sports package just for those of us who might want it rather than going aftermarket. If they had done that, we'll have none of the complains from the auto reviewers about the poor tires (in terms of performance).
Maybe your arms are more flexible or your seat is way back. But I don't like to drive w/ my seatback all the way back. In fact with my 5'9" height, in order for my wrist to rest comfortable on top of the steering wheel with elbows slightly bent (no, that's not how I drive, but that's how we figure out the correct distance generally), my seat and seatback angle is almost upright. The distance my left shoulder to the seatbelt is pretty far away. My left arm has to reach all the way back and it generally hurts my arm and shoulder. Maybe it is just me, but I'm just saying I'm having problems. I golf and play tennis regularly, runs 5 miles/3 times a week (in the summer/fall months obviously). So, I consider myself pretty active and generally a flexible person.
The creak and rattle package, I didn't buy. They threw it in, free of charge, even when I refused profusely. The rattling bit behind the steering wheel, I get it too. Strange thing is as the car warms up, the right rattling goes off but the left rattling (the one near or behind driver side cup holder) appears. But this is far from the other more noticeable rattling coming from the engine compartment when I'm going around 60-70mph.
Unfortunately all these rattles come on when the car is in motion. Not sure how I can figure out what causes the sound unless I zip tie some wires and go out for a drive. Stop and zip tie more till I figure out the problem. I'm sure if I bring it to the dealership (not just Honda, but the Nissan and Audi dealerships of the previous cars I owned), they'll say, it is normal. Have heard it so many times.
The previous SI has the same size tires. Unless you are on a track 17's are overkill. You will be faster, lighter, and get better gas mileage with the 15's. The tires will last longer and cost you less to replace.But that's irrelevant, if 17's were that important to you then you could have bought a GTI, a SVT, a Tiburon, or a Spec-V.
Again I ask you if the car is as bad as you say it is why did you buy it? And if it is as bad as you say it is then trade it. It's as simple as that. Since you've already bought the car if you don't want to trade it then you need to start looking for the positives or it's going to be a miserable time for you.
Let me say this again. Even if you see me complaning about my Si, I do not say the car sucks or the car is the worst car I've owned. All the things I'm saying will be a good improvement for the Si and Honda would benefit from it.
Aside from the seatbelt coz' all of us are built differently, Honda could have give us more aggressive tires since they know it'll ultimately be competing w/ the SVT and GTi in comparison and those cars have bigger rims and more aggressive tires to begin with. Cluster lighting is really dim and unreadable during the dusk/dawn. Try reading the kph readout if you happen to drive during this time and you'll see what I mean. It doesn't matter why I need to read the kph. What matters is it is dim. Rather than giving us white faced gauges, I rather take the traditional black faced ones if I can read the numbers better.
All cars have squeek and rattle and all manufacturers should learn to screw their cars right and tightly. It doesn't matter to me a (insert your choice of car here to bash) rattles worst than the Si. I only care if my car is better.
And stop asking why I bought the car. Like you, it was the best price/value combo out there for me. But does that mean I should live with the problems I see as being a problem to me??
p/s: This is in a second post as Revka might delete the post. Besides, the subpar requirement wasn't coined by me originally.
p/ss: I love the subpar comment made by another poster long ago when you said 160HP is enough
Civics are fast as anyone prudently needs to go, it tops out at 130 mph. It has exceptional safety and economy. It also handles better than anyone outside the track will ever know. In fact, it handles within a hair of the previous version which no one seems to have any complaints about. Is that car also sub-par?
But what exactly defines sub-par and what does the Civic do that is actually sub-par. I mean saying something like that implies that the Civic is lacking in the capacity to do it's intended purpose. Anony's purpose was to have a nice sporty lil car to get to and from work in. It does this job just fine. Nothing sub-par about it.
Hamproof...I hate to tell ya but your "problems" aren't going to be "fixed". The gauges, tires, seat-belts, etc. are there to stay. It's a shame you got railroaded into buying this vehicle.
Civic Si SHOULD come with 17" rims and summer tires (SVT) and 180HP min (GTi 1.8T). Those are my requirements. And since Si falls short of them, what more can I say? Yes, I bought the car and it's my right to B&M about it now. What's your problem? Hey, at least she picked you
I'm sure another poster will would have liked the 200HP motor in the Si. To him/her, I would have subpar requirement for my commuter. But you don't see me telling other people what is enough for them or what is good for them. I'm saying what is not good enough for me. Moi!
If you want a 200hp Civic it looks like you will have to do what everyone else who wants one will have to do... Rely on the aftermarket. That's what every other Civic owner in history has had to do. If you were expecting more, you should have done a little more research into where you were putting your money.
Heck my 300ZX Turbo had 16's, my first RX7 and my MR2 Turbo had 14's. So if you want larger wheel go on out and buy em but they aren't necessary.
If 15" are good enough for you fine. Don't go telling us that it is also good enough for us. Don't you get it?? What is good enough for you may not be good enough for us. Afterall, you got anony
You are the one that may need a consultation.
2. I want power (as much as possible)
3. I would like to stay away from domestics and European
4. I would like a simple pricing scheme (Honda DX/LX/EX and none of the Toyota/BMW everything is an option deal)
5. Cheap (less than $20k since it will be my beater to drive to work)
What do you recommend?
Of all the cars I miss the most was a beat up 1987 Civic wagon that I rescued from death. When I bought it it had mostly black primer paint, broken windshield, and the valve cover was in the cargo area. I bought it for $500. Fixed it up (except for the paint) and drove it for another 20,000 miles with no problems. I loved that car. And at the same time I had an Acura Vigor that I never drove.
What I'm saying is that it was slow and ugly but it endeared itself to me anyway. It started every morning and got me where I needed to go. Since they don't make your car you will have to make due with what you got. But complaining ain't gonna make your plight any better.
And now back to the subject of the Honda Civic Si. Thanks! ;-)
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
If I don't complain or if no one else in this world complains, Honda will present us with yet another Si that is severely lacking behind other competitors and we'll be here 4 years from now complaining yet again the lack of (insert feature here) in our Si.
Even if the Type R is here, I'll still be complaining if they haven't improve on the interior quality though I'll be happy with the 200+ HP and 17" rims. So, it'll be 2 items that I complain about taken care of, with maybe 2 or 3 more to go
She was genuinely offended that a comparison was made bet. the Odyssey and my "little car" as she likes to call it.
Btw, she was also disappointed when she came back from maternity leave to see that I sold my A4 and bought my "little car".
You keep saying the dash lighting is too dim have you tried adjusting the brightness? That's the only reason I could think of that could cause your lights to be dim because mine are more than bright enough.
Who thinks this is funny?
Gee35 actually thinks he's going to get to drive the Accord Coupe after we get it. hahahaha ... that's a good one.
I expect the car to have a sporty handling rather than a soft ride like a Camry for example. I expect the car to have a good balance bet. road feel and cabin sound (BMW as oppose to Lexus). I do not expect the cluster lighting to be dim coz' they shouldn't be dim in the first place. Just like ALL cars should be safe and reliable.
Your expectations are what I consider requirements for a car.
As far as my cabin lighting goes, it is all the way to the right (the adjustment knob). Maybe you should try driving around during the dusk/dawn time. Auto reviewers have also commented that the orange lighting makes it hard to read during certain conditions and that's what I'm finding out.
If they make the si with a/t sure I would trade my 02 civic lx coupe.
Greetings from sunny Miami.
fig
You can say all you want but during the dawn time when I drive to work and dusk time when I leave for home, both times when I have my lights on, the km/h and icons are completely washed out. The only time I can see them clearly is when I pass under a bridge coz' that cuts out exterior lighting and suddenly I can see the numbers clearly.
Now, you probably do not need to see the km/h but I do. Windsor, Canada is just a bridge away from Detroit and I do go over there at times.
You can argue that's minor. The thing is I can see the MPH but not as clearly as I would like it to be. It is a little fuzzy on the numbers coz' of the cluster lighting. With the smaller km/h numbers, it got worse.
And you are right. Expectation varies depending on who's doing the expectation. When we say we expect 17" rims and 200HP in our Si, at least you can understand now that our expectations for our little Si is very different. You have a lower expectation than ours. That much we can agree upon.
Honda understands "Sport", they just need to bring the Civic Type R to the US to prove it. Price it at just under $20,000 and it would sell better than the current Si. Thats my 2 cents on the issue.
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/12/civicsiconcept03_03_800.jpg
But the GTI really doesn't sell much better in the U.S. When you look at all the "features" you get for 19K it's about the same deal you get with a 16K SI. And the sales numbers aren't much beter.
WHAT DO YOU THINK AMERICAN HONDA DEALERS THINK OF HAVING TO UNLOAD THIS UNWANTED CAR AT A LOSS?
I think Honda customers in NA should feel insulted that they weren't offered this car in its 6 speed, 200 hp guise like it is in Europe.
I guess they don't think that there are enough driving enthusiasts here to warrant the real Type R.
Sounds like an RSX Type S to me. Oooops, they're asking (and getting) 23+K.
While we're here, anybody know where I can buy an S2000 at Miata sticker?
Actually, I agree with you, moparbad. Honda has screwed their market position with the new SI (and created a hell of buy for anyone looking for something good at 15-16K). A little extra in one area or another, and Honda could sell SI's at list. As it really is, wouldn't you really rather have an SI and four grand than an SVT or GTI? LOL, wait long enough; and you can take the $4,000 and buy both the SVT and the GTI after you shut 'em down with the SI (and tow 'em away with it, too).
For $16,000 the GTI can't touch the SI. Let's just call it a trade-off. Bulletproof reliability for 17" wheels. Awesome transmission for a full-size spare. Fully independent front AND rear suspension for ... well I guess that about says it all.
Motortrend and Automobile magazine didn't agree with you assertion that the SI handled better than the GTI.
Plus what is the benefit of an extra year of warranty if Honda/Acuras are so reliable in the first place?
Just went to the VW UK site and the Honda UK site and guess what:
The GTI 1.8t 150hp(NA is 180hp) version goes for 16,585 pounds.
The Honda Civic Type R with 200hp and a 6 speed goes for 15,995 pounds.
Of course monetary ratios and marketing may play a part in this discrepency, but this still is a way different situation than we have in NA.
I think it is this way because:
1.) Honda is desperate to break into the European market
2.) the small car market and hatch hatch market in Europe is much more competitive. That is they have small cars like Citreon, Seat, Peugot, Alfa, etc. that we don't so they have to be more aggresive in giving bang for the buck.
Still doesn't say much for Honda of NA's attitude towards it customer or its pricing scheme.
Motortrend and Automobile magazine didn't agree with you assertion that the SI handled better than the GTI.
Plus what is the benefit of an extra year of warranty if Honda/Acuras are so reliable in the first place?
Just went to the VW UK site and the Honda UK site and guess what:
The GTI 1.8t 150hp(NA is 180hp) version goes for 16,585 pounds.
The Honda Civic Type R with 200hp and a 6 speed goes for 15,995 pounds.
Of course monetary ratios and marketing may play a part in this discrepency, but this still is a way different situation than we have in NA.
I think it is this way because:
1.) Honda is desperate to break into the European market
2.) the small car market and hatch hatch market in Europe is much more competitive. That is they have small cars like Citreon, Seat, Peugot, Alfa, etc. that we don't so they have to be more aggresive in giving bang for the buck.
Still doesn't say much for Honda of NA's attitude towards it customer or its pricing scheme.
Also, the new SIs are going for 15.5k-16k. Is destination included with that price?
Thanks.
Just because in the history of the Si it doesn't come w/ 17" rims, so that's ok for Honda not to offer 17" rims is a retarded excuse for Honda. Look, in early 90s, the Si came with 90HP? Maybe 120HP?? I'm too lazy to look but here you have the Si with 160HP.
Don't forget CTR are sold w/ 200HP and 17". Technically the CTR and Si are the same w/ exception to the engine. CTR is even lighter to boot. So, why does the CTR has 17" rims and bigger brakes? Is it because of the additional 40HP it has 17" rims?? Or it is because it is suppose to be THE sportiest Civic ever so it deserves to have the equipment to back it up?
Guess what, we have the same size rims as a regular Civic and the Si is the sportiest Civic in NA. Face it. Honda wanted to make more money for themselves and gave us 15" shod in AS. If you blame it on Acura (RSX/RSX-S), we might buy that. But if you keep telling us traditionally Si has never been offered in 16" or 17", so Honda doesn't need too, is silly.