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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • rivertownrivertown Posts: 928
    You got it right on the revs - roughly 3000 rpm at 60 mph, 4000 @ 80, 5000 @ 100, etc. This doesn't worry me. We've got an engine that is very similar to higher redlined engines in the RXS-S and S2000.
  • crikeycrikey Posts: 1,038
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    Is rivertown's post correct?

    "You got it right on the revs - roughly 3000 rpm at 60 mph, 4000 @ 80, 5000 @ 100, etc. This doesn't worry me. We've got an engine that is very similar to higher redlined engines in the RXS-S and S2000."

    B/c my PRO runs 4500 at 90, so it seems the 2 cars are geared similarly. I know the Civic's might make a better sound, but I remember you complaining how the ES felt bad at highway speeds. Was it just the noise in the ES you didn't like or what exactly?

    Dinu
  • rivertownrivertown Posts: 928
    For me, the heavier, torquier, smoother Si is a bunch less buzzy than the Pro.
    That hard to define quality they're calling 'refinement', the feeling of having reserve power even at 100 mph. Honestly, the Si feels solid at speed like my '89 5.0 'Stange.
    There is wind noise with the Si, but that's somehow different.
  • thanks for the rev numbers. I was on the highway last night and tested out your numbers. That's almost exactly what I'm getting. I hear ya about the good quality of the engine, but my dad's telling me reving any engine that high will cause long term damage. Don't get me wrong, I love to accelerate fast, shift at higher revs, etc, but this car is going to be my daily commuter (school's the least of my traveling) for hopefully many years. My dad's also got me wondering about fuel consumption. Obviously fast accel is going to hurt the mpg, but is it a large difference? Regardless, i don't think highway driving could have been more fun last night.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    Honda's have had high-revving engines since they started building cars. The engine is designed to rev that high and one of the things you almost never hear under normal circumstances is premature Honda engine failures.

    As for the gas mileage, the faster you go the lower your MPG will be on the highway. That's true with any car but probably a little more so due to the SI's high-rev nature. But on a recent trip with average speeds of 85-90 MPH we still average 30MPG. On a less agressive trip we got 30-33 MPG.
  • thanks for the rev numbers. I was on the highway last night and tested out your numbers. That's almost exactly what I'm getting. I hear ya about the good quality of the engine, but my dad's telling me reving any engine that high will cause long term damage. Don't get me wrong, I love to accelerate fast, shift at higher revs, etc, but this car is going to be my daily commuter (school's the least of my traveling) for hopefully many years. My dad's also got me wondering about fuel consumption. Obviously fast accel is going to hurt the mpg, but is it a large difference? Regardless, i don't think highway driving could have been more fun last night.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Remeber I said that we regularly drove at those speeds though. As River said the difference is in the way the car behaves at those revs. The Protege at 4000 rpm sounded and felt like it was laboring the SI is just like 2000 rpm. I say it's the Vtec and balance shafts creating a more relaxed cruise but whatever it was the Pro didn't seem to like it. I have no problem running our Si for extended periods over 100 mph(over 5000 rpm) there's no way I'd feel as comfortable doing that in our Protege.

    So in a sentence it was the noise, excess vibration and the lack of reserve power that we didn't like about the Pro. Cause even my 93 EX coupe had reserve power at 100mph. It handled 115-120 easy mph with no strain on the engine. That's another comparison that didn't go over well in the Pro room.
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    I see what you're saying.

    I agree with you: the PRO is not too smooth at 85mph+. I usually keep it at 80 or so on trips b/c:

    1. Noise!!!
    2. Don't wanna pay $$$ for tickets and higer insurance.

    The 93 Civic I had was good on the highway (smooth and not too noisy > better than the PRO at 80+mph), but not too good in the city.

    It seems the SiR is the ultimate package, combining the best of 2 worlds. And a 160hp in a car that small begs to be driven :)

    Too bad it costs so much! No discounts here.

    Dinu
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Its too easy to get you to see both sides of the coin. I'm glad this didn't get drawn out. At least you can see that we didn't hate our Pro. It didn't like our driving style is all. It was nice to look at and everything though.

    I agree my 93 EX would not have been fun in the city. Especially with the A/C on. Nothing really till over 2000rpm. But it LOVED the open road. Power, mileage, and comfort were excellent.

    We take our driving seriously though. We got rid of the EX-V6 Accord for the same reason. The tranny was fine after one of us drove it for a while. But if we drove it back-to-back the transmission had a brain fart. So we got rid of it. Nothing wrong with the car. Just didn't like to adjust to her more abrupt inputs and my more relaxed style.

    And by the way we do refer to the SI as the perfect Pro sometimes. We still have fond memories of our brief time with it.
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    Well I am VERY fond of hatches and a hatch w/160hp, a Honda MT and those seats is hard to beat.

    On the other hand, for the $, I think the PRO is a better value, especially for me, as I do most of my drivig in the city, so I am not annoyed so much at the noise. If the cars were selling for the same $, or $1500 more for the SiR, I'd pick the Honda, but w/a $5.000 difference, it's hard to justify paying $100 more per month for 4 years.

    Cheers!
    Dinu

    PS: Glad we can see both sides of the coin.

    Dinu
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    you guys are gonna make me cry. Proof that we can all just get along.

    You guys pay crazy prices up there in Canada. Here in the US we paid $15300 for the Protege and we paid $16,000 for the SI. The Pro was at 0.0% though while the SI is 5.25%. Although now Honda has 1.9%.
  • rivertownrivertown Posts: 928
    Once you're past break-in, I honestly wouldn't worry about the revs and engine wear. There's even a rev limiter that works by chopping fuel supply; so, I think the only way you can harm the engine is by downshifting - too low a gear, too high speed. If you're running hard, I'd simply make sure to keep oil status good.

    LOL, gas mileage is another story. I think it's simple physics; use the power, use the fuel. My take is to use good gas and not penny pinch; for me that means Amoco, Exxon, or Texaco. The cool thing about the Si is the torque allows you cruise at low rpm and shift less in the city or to run and gun, as you like. I've yet to get the mileage Anony gets, but I think it's my heavy foot and short trips.
  • rivertownrivertown Posts: 928
    Some of us is smooth and some of us ain't, I guess.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    I've observed Gee driving my SI and it's hard to get great gas mileage when you are determined to find out the true top speed of the SI any time a Chevy truck comes near you.
  • hosimianhosimian Posts: 10
    continue into March, except now they're even better. Residual value stays at 52% for 48 months, but money factor drops from .00092 to .00078 (that translates into just a hair less than 1.9%).

    I might just have to get another one. I need to replace my old 89 BMW 535i, AKA "The Black Hole," before in implodes . . . again.

    If anyone out there lives in an area where you can get a 2003 Si under $17k (legitimately), you could lease one for less than $180/month tax included with no money down (just first month and usual fees). For that price I would definitely get another one, but I think they're still above invoice in my neck of the woods (Pittsburgh, PA).

    Did a 4 hour mini road trip in the new Si yesterday and it was very nice. Love those seats! And for a small engine it just seems to have torque all over the place. It does rev a bit high on the highway, but it has a nice smooth sound. We are just finishing up the last month of a lease on a 2000 Acura Integra GS-R, and the Civic Si just seems better in almost every way. The GS-R might have a fraction of a second 0 to 60, but to get that fraction you have to beat the snot out of it.

    Although, after driving the GS-R for three years, I have found myself occassionally bumping into the rev limiter on the Si. It just feels like it could go at least another 600-700 RPMs without any additional stress to the engine. It makes me think that the Si could actually out-accelerate the GS-R if that rev limiter was, say, 7700 RPM.

    Does anyone know, can you hit 60 in second gear in the Si before the limiter cuts off the fuel?

    Still loving it more and more with each drive . . . and uh oh, so's the wife.
  • rivertownrivertown Posts: 928
    There's mpg (miles per gallon) and there gpm (grins per mile), inversely related.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    lol river. You gotta point there. Gee is usually grinning when he is driving the SI ... but so am I.
  • dudkadudka Posts: 451
    "Although, after driving the GS-R for three years, I have found myself occassionally bumping into the rev limiter on the Si. It just feels like it could go at least another 600-700 RPMs without any additional stress to the engine. It makes me think that the Si could actually out-accelerate the GS-R if that rev limiter was, say, 7700 RPM.

    Does anyone know, can you hit 60 in second gear in the Si before the limiter cuts off the fuel?"

    You can get a hondata reprogrammed computer and it will bump up the output to 180 hp and give you a higher redline.
    http://www.hondata.com/k20a3civicsirelease.html
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I no longer own my Si. It will be missed. I had an appointment to get window tint on the Si and had some nice 17" wheels picked out. Felt that my earlier problems were taken care of then opportunity struck. Received an excellent trade on a 2002 VW Golf TDI. Monsoon stereo with indash cd and cassette and 6 disc cd changer, heated seats, heated mirrors, power roof like the Si, alloy wheels, 44 mpg, lower insurance and better resale. It is slower than the Si by far but I'll get it chipped and get some bigger wheels for it and I'll be ready to go.
    The most missed feature from the Si will be the seats. The seats were fantastic! Honda service was much better overall than VW service and I'll miss that too but I spent way too much time at the Honda dealer with Si problems. My previous experience with VW's has been excellent and much better than my recent Honda experience. Yeah, I know that is not normal, VW must be lucky for me.
    Anyway, I wish everyone the best of luck with their Si's. All I need to do now is figure out what to do with my Si mudguards that I never installed.
This discussion has been closed.