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Ford Stole 7 MPH !

richflynnrichflynn Posts: 147
edited February 28 in Ford
Just got back from a weekend trip to Laughlin, NV
from the LA area. MAJOR disappointment in my new
'99 F-250. The governor holds me to only 92.5 MPH!
(If the speedometer is linear like the '92 that's a
true 90+ MPH.) It was maddening! Up hill 92.5,
down hill 92.5, level ground 92.5, ALL at 92.5.

Ford stole at least 7 MPH over my '92.

Does anybody know where I can get this deficiency
corrected?

Rich
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Comments

  • AirwolfAirwolf Posts: 142
    I don't know about that in particular, but why not just get a performance ship for the engine that removes the governor? It's probably another one of those liability issues at Ford, but thanks for the tip. I might not be able to get that F250 now. :)
    Oh yeah, nice notation on the "'rents" article in the other conference.
    Ryan
  • BrutusBrutus Posts: 1,113
    Richflynn,

    How about a supercharger or dual quads? Headers? Six Pak?

    Other than your inability to exceed 92.5mph, how do you like the truck?
  • dunbartondunbarton Posts: 46
    Geez,

    Haven't done 92 mph since the drag strip last year while blowing the doors off Mustang Cobras.

    Have problems just doing 40 mph in New Jersey. Does the Highway Patrol ever bother you guys?
  • BrutusBrutus Posts: 1,113
    My comments were in sarcasm. I've don't think I've ever had my truck up over 90. I think Rich's comments were made in jest as well. I usually set the cruise control about 7 mph above the posted speed limit on long trips unless the traffic is moving along at a quicker clip. I've not at problems with the highway patrol at that speed and I've even driven through some speed traps. They're looking for the guys that are really cruising, you know, the guys doing 92.5.
  • mharde2mharde2 Posts: 278
    richflynn, You must have a 4.10 rear end. Switch to 3.55 and you sould get 110-112
  • richflynnrichflynn Posts: 147
    First off, I LOVE THIS TRUCK! It rides better and handles better than my '92 7.3L F-250.

    The '99 is a little bit noiser than the older '92 was. Even my wife noticed it. (We both wear hearing aids.) It is sort of a hissing noise that we attribute to the turbo. (The '92 F-250 didn't have a turbo. It almost had a turbo, but my son needed help with a down payment for a Jeep.)

    The rear end in the truck is 3.73 and I'm not out of RPMs.

    No, I'm not posting in jest. I am disappointed.

    One of the tricks to driving in the California desert is the right lane. Drive at the speed your're comfortable with and as you catch other vehicles, signal, change lanes, pass, signal and change lanes back to the right. NEVER change lanes to the right to pass. This takes of most of the bears in the air.

    The CHP uses radar in the desert, Ka band.

    When it is dark, use the 7 MPH rule mentioned above.

    The real issue is not to make yourself stand out from the crowd!

    Yes! I'M STILL DISAPPOINTED! 92.5 MPH just ain't realistic. My '92 was faster by 7 MPH.

    Rich
  • stanfordstanford Posts: 606
    That is odd.

    My '93 diesel with the 4.11 gears doesn't seem to be speed-limited. I can top it out (around 108 mph) at (er, thinks) around 2850 rpm, which is the same speed that the limiter kicks in in the lower gears. Plenty of power, just out of gear.

    Could it be part of the california emmisions package? Have you confirmed that you can rev faster than that in Drive? Just some wild guesses.
  • stanfordstanford Posts: 606
    NOISIER? The Powerstrokes I test drove before ordering another diesel were so much quieter inside than mine I was overwhelmed! The engine is a little louder from the outside, but with all the windows sealed it almost sounds like a gas engine.

    IMHO, of course.

    The turbo whine is a little noticable, but I kinda like it. If you've both got hearing aids, is it possible that this is hitting you at just the wrong frequency? I have friends with hearing aids and they've reported similar sensations with different sounds.
  • cdeancdean Posts: 1,110
    the reason his new truck is noisier than his old one is because his old one was a '92-- no powerstroke, no turbo. that engine had a subtle clatter. it was definitely a diesel, but not near as loud as the '94- '98 powerstrokes; those things made some real racket. the '99 powerstrokes are impressively quiter and smoother than the previous powerstroke.
  • stanfordstanford Posts: 606
    Agreed -- I've got a '93 non turbo though. I'm comparing interior noise also (all bets are off if the windows are down).
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Word of caution: Ever see what a white-tail deer does to any car going 92.5? I get a kick out of this discussion. Relax, go 70--better reaction zone.
  • BrutusBrutus Posts: 1,113
    Deer? Roadkill in the winter in Alaska is moose. I have a friend who hit one in a Pinto and in a VW Scirocco. Talk about bad luck. Obviously, both cars were totaled. She was lucky to escape with minor injuries. Hitting moose is so prevalent in Alaska in the winter because they come down out of the mountains to look for vegetation to eat when the snow gets too deep at the higher altitudes. They have a list, usually of charitable organizations or lower income families. When a moose is hit on the road, they call the first person on that list that lives in that area and they have less than an hour to get to the site and dress out the moose. I'm not sure who dresses out what is left of the car.
  • queenmsqueenms Posts: 26
    Amen Brutus!

    I saw a brand new Honda Accord on it's way back from the State Fair in '95 hit a moose near the Ship Creek bridge between the Fort Rich and Elmendorf entrances. What a mess, didn't kill the moose outright (first APD officer on the scene had to put it down) it did kill the Accord owner outright. I may speed a bit on long open stretchs but my opinion is that anyone asking a Ford heavy duty truck to do a 100mph is looking for trouble. I will defend the right of those who wish to, do so. However I choose to drive so that I arrive at my destination in one piece. Growing up in Alaska with lots of mountains and winding roads teachs patience. It's proving to be a huge asset now that I am ordained to suffer in the creep and go traffic of Houston.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Hmmm.
    I remember the poor lady in Chadds Ford in PA that was killed by the lowly deer. Eight point I believe. Went through the windshield and stabbed her head to the head-rest on 202.
    I'm tired of stories about the three people who live in the west who hit a moose. The stories here are very prevalent and people have no idea what a 200 pound animal can do. Pennsylvania has the highest population of deer to people in America. Too many roads with too many drivers compete with these animals. I would rather take the odds in Alaska over here anyday. 700,000 in Alaska doesn't equal 12 million people with 2 million deer on the roadways.
    143 people died in PA alone in 97 because of accidents with deer. Dept. of Trans. of PA.
    Over a 1,000 with injuries. Outside of Anchorage, are there even that many accidents?
    I wish people here would take this threat more seriously. 143 is alot when considering the little deer. 143.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Obviously hitting a moose would suck--my point is to dispel any myth that hitting a deer is nothing. I hit one in a 68 Mustang years ago and It totaled the car. My girl-friend at the time broke four ribs when the hoof came through.
    Yeah, measly deer can do some destruction. Their un-predictability lends themselves to my thought. " Do we run or stay?" Lights! "Run"!!
  • queenmsqueenms Posts: 26
    Your point is taken. Any object of significant weight (Rock - Deer - Moose) coming through a vehicles windshield at speeds above 30 - 40mph have a tendency to become lethal when impacting the human body.

    Moose strikes tend to number in the 100-200 range (statewide) most winters in Alaska. The highway department strenuously urges everyone through signs and stiff penalties to SLOW DOWN in the winter. I would imagine the same goes for back east where the driving is just as dangerous or more so. You shouldn't take anything for granted when driving.

    In a nutshell you should drive for the conditions! Things that can kill you will sometimes be no bigger than a cat.
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    Richflynn,

    Did you ever check the accuracy of your odometer. The one on my 98 F150 was off by more than 5 percent (odometer clicked off 94.8 miles when I went past 100 miles of road-side mile markers. If yours is the same and it’s safe to say the speed indications are off a similar percentage, maybe Ford only stole a couple of mph from you.
  • BrutusBrutus Posts: 1,113
    Tire size could also impact the odometer.
  • bigfurbigfur Posts: 649
    Watch a body shop every now and then and you will see exactilly what a deer can do to a car. A very small deer (50lbs-60lbs) completely totalled a saturn. Whole front clip and roof, gone. Luckly the woman escaped with minor injuries and one hellofa scare.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Hate to burst anyone's bubble, but all odometers have a built-in error feature. Doing a 100? Nope, probably @ 94.
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    Rocles,

    Would you elaborate? What's a built-in error feature on an odometer and how does it work? It sounds like your saying if the odometer clicks off only 95 miles when the vehicle actually travels 100, the needle which indicates speed is accurate irrespective of this error in the odometer.
  • richflynnrichflynn Posts: 147
    There are two ways that I know of to calibrate a speedometer.

    In California, the local yokels are required to establish speed limits by a speed survey. This used to be done by having some one sit in a car with radar and clock everyone for a day or so. The rule was to throw out the top 15% as reckless and the bottom 15% as dangerous and average the remaining. Hence a new speed limit.

    Today this is done with a trailer based machine. This system automatically records your speed AND it also displays your speed in 2 foot high numerals for you to see. When I find one of these set up, I go through it 4 or 5 times at different speeds.

    The second method is the mile markers on the highways. They are not wide spread in CA but there are some. Usually there is a sign, "Speedometer Check Ahead." Then followed by Mile 0, Mile 1, etc. up to 5 miles. The trick here is to use cruise control and a stop watch. Just time yourself over the 5 mile course. Record your time at each mile. If you have a stop watch that calculates the speed for you, the answer is obvious. If not use the following formula:

    Miles x 3600
    Speed in MPH = -------------
    Time in seconds

    There will be variations in the speed control so the speed will vary, however it does give you a good idea.

    I did both of these steps in my '92 F-250. The most amazing thing was that the speedometer read about 2.5 MPH fast over the range from 35 MPH to 80 MPH. I had done this many times at highway speeds before and after new tires. The old tires were maybe 2.25 and the new tires 2.5. There is one other interesting fact about this speedometer, that is the feed for the speedometer was pulses and not an analog feed from the transmission. The pulses were derived from the ABS sensors.

    A trip to Vegas this weekend in the '99 SD. I'll be sure to bring the stop watch.

    Rich
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    Thats really interesting. I've seen the police-owned signs that tell you what your current speed is, but I didn't realize they were used for speedometer-calibration puposes. But that only tells me how my speed can be measured external to any equipment in my vehicle. Now that I know my speedometer is in error, by let's say 2 1/2 percent, is there something in my ABS I can tweek and then go back and check it out using the readings on the cop's 2-foot-high speed sign? Regarding your statement "The pulses were derived from the ABS sensors." What movement is being sensed by the ABS? Also, I had assumed these pulses were source infomation for both the speed indicator and the odometer, which would mean if one is off, the other is off by the same percentage. Is that right or wrong?

    I haven't driven in CA in many years, but I recently took a drive from NJ to Phoenix and back and used the highway mile markers in almost every state (Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.) to check my odometer. Whoever made the mile-length measurements in those states did it the same in every one, because my odometer was inaccurate by the same amount in every one of those states. I had simply assumed that if the odometer is off, so is the speedometer by the same percentage.
  • richflynnrichflynn Posts: 147
    lwf,
    My odometer was reasonably accurate. Something like a third to half of a tenth in 5 miles. The odometer was LCD and it was a kind of guess. I don't remember checking for distance accuracy in Arizona where they have mile markers. (As I remember from my younger rallye days they were very consistent.) The only reason I know about the speedometer sensor being the ABS sensor is because it failed. The light ABS came on, the flash code said bad sensor, the speedometer was jumpy and the transmission was confused.

    The shop manuals said that there was a feature in the '92 for auxiliary equipment that needed a speedometer input. This feed offered about 8000 pulses per mile going from 0 volts towards plus 16 volts.
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    That is prettty accurate. Extrapolating the numbers you gave gives somewhere between a .66 and 1 mile error in 100 miles which could easily be accounted for by tire wear.

    I guess that blows my theory to hell.

    Still, it seems surprising that a big engine such as yours won't push it to the century mark. For what it's worth, that isn't a problem with your truck's kid brother, the F150 with a V6 and a 3.08 rear end. I certainly agree with the others who have implied that driving at that speed is risky, but while I was on that trip I mentioned in the earlier post, there were lots of occasions with no other vehicles in sight (no moose or deer either), so I opened it up one time. It went to 100 even with a speedoemeter which seems to me to be reading low. There seemed to be lots of pedal left, and the tachometer was at only about 2600 RPM (I believe that engine's torque and HP peak at above 3000), so it might have gone faster. But I wouldn't have been able to tell how much with a speedometer that goes up to only 100, so I slowed down.

    For the benefit of anyone else interested in the performance of the F150/4.2V6/3.08, there were some decent hill-climbing tests along the way (in and out of Wheeling W Va and the 7000-ft climb to Flagstaff from the south), and it took all of them easily. MPG figures were between 17 and 21.5 with 17-19 figures in the West where speed limits are 75 but the traffic moved at 85, and the higher numbers pertained to driving in the East where the limit is 65 and I stayed pretty close to it, because it appeared to be enforced when I went through states like Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania. The MPG figures are not as good as those of my previous Nissan PU, but they seem reasonbly high to me and the power, of course, is far more than what I had before. The only problem for me, however, is that I seldom drive on highways. Most of my driving is local where the MPG figure is typically only 16 to 17; whereas, it was more like 20 with the Nissan V6, but I have to keep telling myself that was a compact and this one is full size.

    This one has an automatic which I never before had in a truck and don't really like, but I got it because the towing capacity is higher than what Ford provides with a stick. That fact seemed strange to me, but that's the way it is. I haven't towed very much with it yet, but I have done it a few times........about 2 tons about 50 miles each time. It did it easily and without very much perceived strain on the vehicle.
  • richflynnrichflynn Posts: 147
    re: Speedometer accuracy

    First, the mile markers on I-15 (South bound) in southern Nevada are not placed accurately. Sometimes off by as much as a tenth.

    Second, in the California desert, where they use aircraft to patrol the highway, there are mile markers, of sorts. These are placed every mile and usually within 50 feet of a call box.

    Using a stop watch I clocked speeds 70, 75 and 80 MPH. The stop watch calculates MPH from the time. My speedometer is reading between one and one and a half miles fast at those speeds. Each test was done 5 or 6 times. (i.e. 5 or 6 one mile segments.)

    This is what I expected based upon the experiences with my '92. As I can further calibrate my speedometer, I'll report other speeds.

    Rich
  • richflynnrichflynn Posts: 147
    lfw,
    The ABS sensor in the '92 was sort of like the tachometer sensor. The sensor is placed near a rotation gear. Pulses are derived from the proximity of the sensor and the ferric material in the gear teeth. Amplifiers then shape the signal into a square pulse. I don't think that you can adjust the pulse generation rate, however the shop manuals mentioned something else. Evidently there is an adjustment possible to the speedometer. There is a flash memory in the instrument cluster. The shop manuals mentioned something about setting it for either a tire size change or a rear end ratio change. The manuals STRONGLY cautioned that this was a three shot deal. You could make the change three times and the flash memory was done for ever. It soulds like it was really an EEPROM and had 4 total locations for the calibration code. I don't remember much else and the shop manuals went with the old truck.

    Actually, I would prefer the speedometer to read a mile of two fast. Sort of set the cruise at a comfortable ten plus and I'm only doing eight or nine plus. There's a lot of security in that.

    Rich
  • Speedometer accuracy update,
    I've driven through a radar based speed indicator sign. (Owned and operated by the Westminister, CA PD.)
    At an indicated 35, the sign displayed 34.
    At an indicated just under 30, the sign bounced between 27 & 28.

    Based upon these two tests and the stop watch timings, it looks like the speedometer is reasonably consistent and indicates about 1 mph faster than you're actually travelling.

    I guess that if you know at what point the bears are writing tickets, just set your cruise control to that number and you should be safe.

    Rich
  • f150manf150man Posts: 42
    Easiest way to check speedo accuracy is to take the GPS unit from your boat and carry it in the truck for a day or two. Modern GPS units update speed over ground every few seconds. Forget the odometer or mile posts... they are not accurate enough.
  • stanfordstanford Posts: 606
    My V10 is speed-limited to 94mph also. IMO, that's a bit low -- the Banks kit is supposed to get rid of the govener though.
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