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Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

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Comments

  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    the wider track and blistered fenders are for larger tire clearance. even though both the sedan and wagon in domestic trim come with the same size tires, the sedan can fit 10-20mm wider all else being equal.

    STILL not a relevant safety thing. merry-- I'm not rationalizing faults in the Subaru. I'm responding to your *completely* irrational fears.

    -Colin
  • To my way of thinking performance and safety go hand in hand. Being better able to avoid an accident is preferable to sustaining one. No one has addressed the rationale as to why Subaru made these decisions. They don't make any sense to me. If it has a WRX badge or an STi badge it should behave accordingly. I'm not buying the smaller bar is safer any more than I'm buying the bigger bar is more dangerous. The reasons wagons aren't raced as often is due to extra weight and extra glass and increased chassis flex. But, I'm not interested in racing my wagon. Just having the best available performance/safety. The market previously didn't offer many performance wagons until Audi and Volvo stepped up to the plate. Being a Subaru site, I thought this was the appropriate place to address these issues. Perhaps I'm being petty, but (pardon the expression) God is in the details. Please remember, I bought and own the WRX Sport Wagon (manual). To the best of my knowledge Audi didn't make these compromises when they offered S4's. In fact there previous top of the line RS4 was originaly only available as a wagon (Avant), shame on them for slighting the sedan crowd. I'm only hoping to sway, Subaru from making the same mistakes again.
  • To my way of thinking performance and saftey go hand in hand. Being better able to avoid an accident is preferable to sustaining one. No one has addressed the rationale as to why Subaru made these decisions. They don't make any sense to me. If it has a WRX badge or an STI badge it should behave accordingly. I'm not buying the smaller bar is safer anymore than I'm buying the bigger bar is more dangerous. The reasons wagons aren't raced as often is due to extra weight and extra glass and increased chasis flex. But, I'm not interested in racing my wagon. Just having the best available performance/safety. The market previously didn't offer many performance wagons until Audi and Volvo stepped up to the plate. Being a Subaru site, I thought this was the appropriate place to address these issues. Perhaps I'm being petty, but (pardon the expression) God is in the details. Please remember, I bought and own the WRX Sport Wagon (manual). I'm only hoping to sway Subaru from making the same mistakes again.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I didn't realize you were Tommy Mac!!!! That's great you can actually notice the difference!

    Why not go to a driving school and learn how to drive your car faster??????

    -mike
  • No, I'm not Tommy Mac. I think most people can discern differences between the wagon and the sedan. If your offering to pay my way through driving school, I accept.
  • Also, if the swaybar is a big issue for you, you could switch the wagon bar with the sedan bar. It bolts up perfectly. You should be able to get stock Sedan sway bars for around $50 from the NASIOC "for sale by owner" area.

    Later...AH
  • Thankyou for the constructive reply.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'll address the rationale issue - so the wagon could be sold for $500 less. Usually wagons ADD about $800 to the price, so it's the same as a $1300 discount.

    You could get a Vishnu Stage O kit for the price break and end up quicker than a stock sedan for about the same money.

    But let me reverse this and ask you a question: would you have paid $1300 for the sway bar, fender blisters, and wider track? Honestly?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I challenge anyone short of a race car driver to compare a wagon and sedan and NOTICE the difference between the track widths on anything short of a full scale race track. No one I know who posts on here short of maybe Colin, could tell the difference.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    AH - I wasn't claiming that my OBS could hang with an STi. Only that in real world (spirited mountain driving), I was able to hang with the WRX sedans and that several drivers were surprised that I had only 137 h.p.

    paisan - Agreed. The minor difference isn't something that someone would notice anyway.

    merrycynic - Upgrade to a bigger rear sway bar, then report back to us. ;-)
    Yeah, what does that guy Colin know. He's a Noob! :-D

    -Dennis
  • Juice, I think the insurance difference is due to the type of people more likely to buy a wagon than the type of people more likely to buy a sedan, it's probably the people not the car that effects the price of insurance of the wagon vs. the sedan. As for the $1300 price difference if Subaru didn't have the added expense of tooling, training and maintaining two different sets of parts, that price might come down significantly. It could have a positive effect on the price of the sedan as well. Obviously Subaru thought it worth the cost for the sedan. If the AH is correct (I have no reason to doubt him) Subaru's decision has dominoed to all but guaranteed that the wagon would be further compromised as an STi. Interestingly enough, AH and I seem to have the same priorities.
    Colin, I'm devoid of "completely irrational fears". As I said previously, I posted this not out of fear but as a complaint hoping to sway Subaru from doing it again in the future. I bought the car knowing full well what I was getting into. I say Subaru's decision was "irrational". Only Juice has offered anything close to a legitimate defense for Subaru's decision.
    Paisan, I'm up to the challenge, you set it up.
    One thing I've learned these past couple of days, is that Subaru sure has the knack when it comes to developing customer loyalty!
  • ....on a slalom and on the road during the Subaru launch event. The differences are so minimal that I think it might have been in my mind.
  • Juice, I think the insurance difference is due to the type of people more likely to buy a wagon than the type of people more likely to buy a sedan, it's probably the people not the car that effects the price of insurance of the wagon vs. the sedan. As for the $1300 price difference if Subaru didn't have the added expense of tooling, training and maintaining two different sets of parts, that price might come down significantly. It could have a positive effect on the price of the sedan as well. Obviously Subaru thought it worth the cost for the sedan. If the AH is correct (I have no reason to doubt him) Subaru's decision has dominoed to all but guaranteed that the wagon would be further compromised as an STi. Interestingly enough, AH and I seem to have the same priorities.
    Colin, I'm devoid of "completely irrational fears". As I said previously, I posted this not out of fear but as a complaint hoping to sway Subaru from doing it again in the future. I bought the car knowing full well what I was getting into. I say Subaru's decision was "irrational". Only Juice has offered anything close to a legitimate defense for Subaru's decision.
    Paisan, I'm up to the challenge, you set it up.
    One thing I've learned these past couple of days, is that Subaru sure has the knack when it comes to developing customer loyalty!
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety articles I posted links to are not valid sources for noting safety in vehicles?


    All Subaru's are very 'able'. Could you elaborate more on your definition of 'able' as referred to in post #3101 - /direct/view/.eec8f4a.eec8e1b/3100


    -Brian

  • I assume that your question was for me. I never said that the Wagon wasn't safe, if it wasn't I wouldn't have bought it. It's just not as safe as it could be. I based my assertion on the premise that a better designed/equipped car can provide better handling performance and a car with better handling performance is safer. A narrower track (especially on a car that already has a higher center of gravity) is more likely to roll over.. Disc brakes (especially on a heavier car) are more likely to provide consistent braking performance. As for the size of the sway bar arguments can be made for both. If a car under steers too much it may prevent avoidance of an accident. If it over steers it could create an accident. I have to agree that the average driver is more likely to get into trouble with over steering, but I tend to think that anyone attracted to a WRX or especially an STi is not your average driver. Subaru seems to think it safe enough for the sedans. According to others at this site the narrower track also prevents the addition of even better equipment that could be able to provide better handling performance and therefore be even safer. To more specifically answer your question: less able to prevent roll over, less able to brake consistently, and less able to steer neutraly. I'm sure I wouldn't have bothered with this if it weren't for the obvious fact that that the parts are available and there doesn't seem to be any good reason not to use them. In fact no matter how insignificant or petty (unless of course your the one that couldn't maintain road contact,steer around or stop in time) the differences may seem, it still seems silly to have to spend extra money and time developing two designs, tooling, parts inventory and training guidelines when one could be done more efficiently with better results. Mind you I don't care for the "blister look" but if it allows for better design/parts and performance I'm for it. BTW, thanks for the info and convenience of your post.
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    quote:I challenge anyone short of a race car driver to compare a wagon and sedan and NOTICE the difference between the track widths on anything short of a full scale race track. No one I know who posts on here short of maybe Colin, could tell the difference

    on the track I could tell the difference between the two if the sedan had the max tires it could clear and the wagon the same-- I could use the extra 20mm or so of tire.

    with the same tires on each, no way.

    switching gears---
    quote: I never said that the Wagon wasn't safe, if it wasn't I wouldn't have bought it. It's just not as safe as it could be.

    You may have the SLIGHTEST of technical points here, but what we are all trying to tell is you that you are worrying (or debating) about the absurd. The *difference* in safety between the vehicles is utterly insignificant. The real safety features used in a crash are the same.

    quote: I based my assertion on the premise that a better designed/equipped car can provide better handling performance and a car with better handling performance is safer.

    Again, you could possibly have a valid technical point but we're talking about that last few percentages of performance. If the wagon is 97% as capable as the sedan, but the average driver can only harness 50% (or less!) of the car's capability, have you lost any safety? I will point out just once more than understeer is safer. The wagon IS safer.

    Find a friend with a sedan and take both cars to a large empty parking lot. Start at 40MPH and make a very sharp turn, and initially keep your foot steady on the gas. After starting the turn, lift abruptly off the gas.

    Betcha the sedan wags its tail FAR more than the wagon. That's the oversteer, or reduced understeer, that the larger rear bar is providing. Do this right, at a higher speed and higher cornering effort, and the sedan will spin. You might be able to get the wagon to spin-- but the sedan's rear end will always come around far faster.

    Stock vs. stock of course.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I love all the web-racers out there :)

    People who live in the theoretical world, where their little #s and technical figures that they get from websites rule their lives. In the off-road world we call em Web-wheelers, people who love to talk about theoretical aspects of their 4x4s but rarely if ever go out to the REAL world!

    Same goes for web-racers, theory theory theory, track width, sway bars, etc. etc. Rather than actually getting out there and auto-xing or tracking their cars and seeing how LITTLE difference the minor technical details make!

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    quote:I challenge anyone short of a race car driver to compare a wagon and sedan and NOTICE the difference between the track widths on anything short of a full scale race track. No one I know who posts on here short of maybe Colin, could tell the difference

    on the track I could tell the difference between the two if the sedan had the max tires it could clear and the wagon the same-- I could use the extra 20mm or so of tire.

    with the same tires on each, no way.


    I agree.

    -mike
  • We should all listen to Mike because his real world experience of driving his XT6 in an empty parking lot at 30mph makes him an expert both racing and the WRX.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    FYI I've driven @ Limerock too and drive 40-50K miles a year. As well as auto-xed several WRXs, Legacies, Outbacks, OBSs, Hondas, Pontiacs to name a few.

    -mike
This discussion has been closed.