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  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    What I notice is it seems that Mercedes has added many of "checks" that dealers once added onto the factory recommended services.

    For instance, Acura's "A" service which is at about 10K miles is:

    change oil
    reset oil reminder
    adjust valves if noisy.

    Mercedes' "A" service which is at about the same 10K miles is:

    reset maintenance minder
    change oil
    do 21 individual checks of various components.

    Doing those 21 checks at the first oil change seems a bit much but it probably is supposed to show the dealer is doing the proper preventative maintenance. At future services, it's designed to allow the dealer to recommend repairs.
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    js06gv said:
    The discussion about service costs raises some questions for me. Although my cars are nice, I've not owned a "premium" brand. Just about every vehicle I've purchased over the past 10 years or so requires pretty mimimal service - oil changes and tire rotations are about it until the car gets to 100K and then you're possibly looking at spark plugs, coolant flush, etc. I'm talking about strictly following the scheduled maintenance guide. Now, that doesn't stop a dealership from selling packages of extra services that at least I think are unnecessary. Are they any more necessary for a premium brand car? Or does a Mercedes, BMW, etc really require that much more service according to their own scheduled service recommendations? I know service is where the real money is for a dealership so I get why "Service A, B or X" is pushed so hard but in the end, how important is it to pay premium prices for component inspections and the like?
    Important enough to keep the warranty in force, for one.  I belong to the Mercedes Benz Club of America which not only gets me another $500 off the selling price of a new Mercedes, but also a nice discount on all parts used when the car was serviced.  That includes filters, oils, coolant, brake pads, etc.  I pay $137 every 15 months and it has paid off for me many, many times over.

    The service intervals are 10,000 miles or 365 days, depending on what the in-car computer says about the next scheduled - sometimes when I pull up the info it shows the next scheduled service in miles and sometimes in days - depending on the sensors that measure engine and oil usage.

    On the CLS 550, I ended up having the 1st service done 12 months after the in service date.  But the dealer paid for it.  Same will happen on the E400 - 12 months and paid for by the dealer - I was given first A Service on all my cars in the form of a coupon from the dealer.

    As for where dealerships make most of their money - service is a big part of it but manufacturer incentives in the form of Customer Satisfaction Index and extra incentives on exceeding sales goals as well as meeting them is where a greater amount comes from.


    2021 Genesis G90

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    The Acura A service is oil/filter, and their bazillion point check. Basically all fluids checked and topped, and brakes, tires, suspension all checked. I also get a sheet with the results. Mostly red yellow green check boxes, with brake pad and tire tread depth written down. They also do a battery test, and supply results slip.

    All in about an hour, no appointment needed. Plus they wash it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited May 2015
    stickguy said:

    If she really wanted to go upscale, sounds like an an AWD V6 TLX would be a better option. The familiar aspect of the Honda, with the power and goodies. And cheap service costs. Heck, I took my old Acura TL to my Honda dealer because it was closer. They did not mind at all.

    Stick...funny you mentioned that. I told her the same thing. If you like the C Class, look at a TLS SH AWD all loaded up with EVERYTHING for low $40s. Service costs same as the Accord.

    I hear what some of you are saying about service on a Mercedes, but I'm not a car neophyte. How many checks can they do? Hoses? Brake Fluid? Power Steering fluid (maybe not that since I think the steering may be electric driven)? Radiator? Tires? Air filter? Cabin Filter? Oil and filter change? I mean, there's only about 3 maybe 4 companies that make all the oil, synthetic and dino. There can't be THAT MUCH of a price difference between all of them. Add to that, all the electronic checks and balances in modern cars will tell you how your fluids are doing and if you need to change or check them.

    My Caddy dealer does all those checks, as does my wife's Honda dealer. MY service is covered by Cadillac. My wife is a notorious coupon clipper. I think she ends up paying $40 with coupon for the oil changes, tire rotations and all the checks that Mercedes does. Not sure if the wife's Accord uses synthetic oil. I know the Caddy does. But, even there, add another $20 extra for synth and Mercedes service is still way out there.

    I still get mailers from my BMW dealer offering $70 oil, filter changes with tire rotation and all the fluid, filters, belts and hoses checks.

    Personally, if we ever buy a Benz, it won't happen until we find a good independent mechanic who can do all those things and at a much more reasonable price. Even there, I'd have to think twice. Caddy offers free routine maintenance for 4 years. BMW offers free maintenance and wearables for 4 years. Mercedes? Nope. Audi was the same as Mercedes....prepurchase and it's a bit cheaper. But, you're paying for it one way or the other. Not sure Audi would be on either of our shopping lists any time soon, though.

    She told me last night how much she likes her Accord and the Benz would have been a total impulse buy. I welcomed her to my car buying world.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    I always have a coupon. They take competitors too.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • js06gvjs06gv Member Posts: 456
    Important enough to keep the warranty in force, for one.

    That's where I was really going with all this so glad you mentioned it. If an owner stuck to what Mercedes, and not necessarily the dealer, recommends for service can Mercedes really yank the warranty for not having the extras done? I've heard the threat of this before but asking you as I know you spent years in the business. What has been your experience?

    2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2013 Ford F-150 King Ranch, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6, 2001 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    stickguy said:

    The Acura A service is oil/filter, and their bazillion point check. Basically all fluids checked and topped, and brakes, tires, suspension all checked. I also get a sheet with the results. Mostly red yellow green check boxes, with brake pad and tire tread depth written down. They also do a battery test, and supply results slip.

    All in about an hour, no appointment needed. Plus they wash it.

    I checked Acura's website for the details. The TSX "A" service is what I checked. The RDX has a couple of more things based on age:

    6 Speed Automatic AWD - Recommended service:
    ◾Replace engine oil*1
    ◾*1: If the message SERVICE does not appear more than 12 months after the display is reset, change the engine oil every year.
    ◾Independent of the Maintenance Minder information, replace the brake fluid every 3 years.
    ◾Inspect idle speed every 160,000 miles (256,000 km).
    ◾Adjust the valves during services A, B, 1, 2, or 3 if they are noisy.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    edited May 2015

    Thanks for the input, everyone. This is a non-sales story after all. (...)
    My wife asked the dealer for their service costs. Sales guy, without really telling us what those costs were, mentioned how much we would save if we pre-purchased service. So, we got more direct, and asked him what an oil change would cost. He said he didn't know. I also asked him what the price of the car was using my company's FEP discount. (...)

    Not what I asked for and I told him. He went back to what I'll assume was his manager, and (...) Still not what I asked for. Long and short of it, they were loath to give us a price on the car....not matter how much, and which way I asked him. (...)
    Plus, he kept addressing me, and not my wife. I probably had to tell him 3 or 4 times "tell her the figures. She's the one buying. Not me.".

    This is terrible. Wow. It almost begs a question to them "why do you keep doing this?". I can understand that the guy may not know the service prices from top of his head - it's not very common for people to ask about it and it may even be somewhat "political". But once the question is asked, it's his job to bring such information in full in front of you, or get you in front of a person who knows.

    Same with price. That I cannot understand at all. Who the heck did he think he was talking to, 5-year olds? Simple question - price of the car. there is no ambiguity there. Seems like some people are simply impervious to world around them, no matter how world's changing. I think even Kia places shouldn't treat people like that, but for Mercedes Benz dealership to simply not listen to the customer, is beyond disappointing.

    There is simply no excuse. I wonder if a management shakeup isn't coming there soon. Or ownership change even. Conversely, if that place is successful, it will be a very sad statement on American consumer.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    AB...I've seen some leather in cars that looked horrific. But, it was usually in very hot climates (AZ, FL, NM, TX). If you leave any leather outside all the time (like a car) in the hot sun, where temps routinely reach 150 degrees inside the car, if you don't treat it, it's going to dry out. That's when it starts looking bad. Leather in my Caddy is good, as it was in my Acura and my BMW. Then again, my cars rarely are kept outside. They're mostly garaged and out of the sun. Only difference is when I go to the airport and park in the outside airport lots over night(s).
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    edited May 2015
    js06gv said:
    Important enough to keep the warranty in force, for one. That's where I was really going with all this so glad you mentioned it. If an owner stuck to what Mercedes, and not necessarily the dealer, recommends for service can Mercedes really yank the warranty for not having the extras done? I've heard the threat of this before but asking you as I know you spent years in the business. What has been your experience?
    I don't think Mercedes would do that so long as the oil is changed with filter as required and all other filters were replaced as required.  One of the reasons it takes 2 hours of service time for an A Service is because of all the inspection done.

    When they did my CLS 550 in November, I was able to see the work involved through a glass window adjacent to the waiting lounge area (they have 6 stalls/lifts there for Express Services for A Services).

    First, all 4 tires were checked for wear and correct pressures.  Next, all 4 wheels were were removed.  Next, brake pads were inspected for wear using a caliper.  Next, the oil was drained and oil filter replaced.  The rear differential fluid was not only checked, but also inspected for proper color as well as smell (interesting).  The dual exhaust and assemblies were inspected.  Hood was raised and all fluids were checked and inspected.  Belts were inspected and transmission fluid was inspected for quantity and again tested for smell.

    Next, the headlights, running lights, directional lights, cornering lights and adaptive headlight motors checked.  All rear lights were checked including front and rear fog lights.  They had to replace 1 LED bulb or diode - forgot which it is.

    They topped off all fluids and washer fluid reservoir.  They inspected wiper blades and replaced them after checking with me (sun and heat plays havoc with blades down here).  They then went into the car and checked all switches and functions.  They then inserted some gadget just under the left front dash and did a readout of the car's computer.  Then they inserted a DVD into my disc player and updated the GPS and other computer systems.

    The car was then taken to the main service building at the back of the property for a car wash (interior and exterior) and I was presented with the paperwork.  There was no charge for the wiper blades which surprised me.  They noted everything they did along with an inspection review sheet.  The whole process took 2-1/2 hours, not including wait time or car wash.

    So it would seem that they do a tremendously thorough job on the car.  Is it worth $300+ if I did not have a coupon for first service A free?  To me - yes.  They are an extremely busy dealership and their service department is 1st class.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    edited May 2015

    I hear what some of you are saying about service on a Mercedes, but I'm not a car neophyte. How many checks can they do? Hoses? Brake Fluid? Power Steering fluid (maybe not that since I think the steering may be electric driven)? Radiator? Tires? Air filter? Cabin Filter? Oil and filter change?

    Graphic, you're missing the point. The outrageous pricing on those services is not based on actual cost of the service, or its breath and depth. In that department, there is some differential based on some of the components being truly more expensive, but that would only constitute 10-20 percent premium. The rest is margins from the manufacturer to the dealer (dealer probably also pays inflated costs vs. dealers of other brands), then multiplied by margins from the dealer to the customer. Those margins have to include the "free" stuff (actual cost), certifications (also actual cost) and the higher unit profit (lower volumes on luxury items have to translate to higher margins per unit). Markets are very efficient in extracting costs for high volume items through competition. However, low volume luxury items have different economics, the value is perceived differently. Unaccustomed customer is usually shocked at the differential.

    This principal can be even better demonstrated in hospitality industry - up to a certain level, there is a race how much more they can provide you at a given price point. It's amazing how quickly major chains included internet (first wire, then wifi), or complimentary breakfast in the room, not to mention other things. Then, after you cross certain threshold of pricing, you discover that a room or suite were just a beginning of drainage of your wallet. I remember a Sheraton asking ten bucks, or something equally ridiculous, for internet less than four years ago, whereas Super 8 Motel (or Courtyard) would have it included in the price. I can only imagine price of internet at Ritz Carlton in Manhattan.

    At least Mercedes takes the $300 for $60 service, but then lets you have $10 coffee, or $50 loaner for a day.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    I think somebody doing service outside of dealerships, as long as they can well document them, will lose two things - benefit of the doubt and good will. By that I mean, they may use a smallest excuse to deny warranty, especially in expensive items (like blown engine or transmission). Also, if something falls out of warranty, but it's a more common occurrence, they will ask you to pony up for a repair, whereas a customer with track record of leaving thousands of bucks already, may actually get that item fixed either free, or at reduced cost. A good example may be my friend's 2010 (or so) C300 that had issue with a starter motor, reportedly quite common for those years. Lucky people got it fixed under warranty, unlucky people were at MB's mercy and results were all over the place, from free to full price. Another friend has Nissan Altima with meting dashboard. Same results.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    mike - IMHO, that service is overkill for a 1 YO car with less than 10K miles on the clock. 20K+, yes.

    As for the wiper blades, MB covers wipers for 1 yr/12K miles.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    ab348 said:

    Made me wonder just what kind of leather quality Ford spec'ed for those seats. It would really need to be redone. They would have been far better off with a decent pleather rather than cheap leather.

    The condition in that 1 particular car doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the leather. Just like anything else, you gotta take care of it. Look at older high-end cars and you'll see quite a discrepancy in the condition of the seats, too. Should a 2010 look that way? No. But we also don't know what the owner did to it. Could be they were cleaning it with starting fluid every week. haha.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2015
    abacomike said:

    As for where dealerships make most of their money - service is a big part of it but manufacturer incentives in the form of Customer Satisfaction Index and extra incentives on exceeding sales goals as well as meeting them is where a greater amount comes from.


    And used car sales - is that the profit center leader?
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    edited May 2015
    robr2 said:
    mike - IMHO, that service is overkill for a 1 YO car with less than 10K miles on the clock. 20K+, yes. As for the wiper blades, MB covers wipers for 1 yr/12K miles.
    I was thinking that service was more appropriate for a B Service, but I saw what I saw - what can I tell you?  As for wipers, I did not know that - I thought 6 months was the wiper warranty.

    If if I was going to keep a Mercedes for 4+ years, I would definitely want services like that every service interval.  I am a stickler for catching problems well before they create bigger/costlier problems down the line.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,286
    abacomike said:

    Verdugo, what surprises me is that the dealer did not request/require proof of insurance with limits of liability and deductibles from you prior to delivering the car.  On purchases, all you need is proof of insurance, however on leases, it was always a requirement of the lessor (leasing company or division) that the insurance coverages be submitted with the lease.  The fault here lies with the dealership for not verifying the limits of insurance when you leased the car.

    Legally, you are required to provide insurance coverages as outlined/required under the terms of the lease agreement.  But the dealer is at fault for not making sure you had the proper coverages before you left their dealership with the leased vehicle.

    Good point Mike.

    I called my insurance company. Premium for the year went up $28, so not the end of the world. I've submitted proof to Chrysler. Hopefully this will be the end of it.
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    @verdugo said:

    "I called my insurance company. Premium for the year went up $28, so not the end of the world. I've submitted proof to Chrysler. Hopefully this will be the end of it."

    Peanuts, verdugo, considering what everything costs today.  I still couldn't fill my tank with gasoline for $28.00.  

    On on the other hand, depending on the car you drive and its age, going from $1500 to $250 deductible collision coverage might have cost you $125+ a year.

    Glad everything worked out for you.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Ownership of luxury cars can come with expensive maintenance. If you want value pricing, do like I did and buy a Buick. $45 oil changes with an inspection report. But my Buick is not a Mercedes Benz. I can afford a MB but it just doesn't interest me -- I don't drive enough and I'm busy spending money on other things. If I did buy one, I wouldn't be concerned about the service costs. It comes with the territory. Repair costs after the warranty expires are another matter. To each his/her own.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,056
    abacomike said:

    @verdugo said:

    "I called my insurance company. Premium for the year went up $28, so not the end of the world. I've submitted proof to Chrysler. Hopefully this will be the end of it."

    Peanuts, verdugo, considering what everything costs today.  I still couldn't fill my tank with gasoline for $28.00.  

    On on the other hand, depending on the car you drive and its age, going from $1500 to $250 deductible collision coverage might have cost you $125+ a year.

    Glad everything worked out for you.

    Funny you should say that .. I just filled up my Hyundai Elantra for $28 yesterday.

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  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    edited May 2015
    abacomike said:


    said:

    mike - If if I was going to keep a Mercedes for 4+ years, I would definitely want services like that every service interval.  I am a stickler for catching problems well before they create bigger/costlier problems down the line.

    Must not comment. Must not comment....

    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    fezo said:
    said:
    mike - If if I was going to keep a Mercedes for 4+ years, I would definitely want services like that every service interval.  I am a stickler for catching problems well before they create bigger/costlier problems down the line.

    Must not comment. Must not comment....
    You never know Fezo, one of these "years" I'm going to keep my cars long enough to worry about things lik that.  Eventually, money and needs, wants and desires come into conflict with each other.  That time is fast approaching for me.  If I knew I was going to live to be 80+, I'd spend money on other things.  But I'll be lucky to make it to 75, and I do mean lucky.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    dino001 said:

    I think somebody doing service outside of dealerships, as long as they can well document them, will lose two things - benefit of the doubt and good will. By that I mean, they may use a smallest excuse to deny warranty, especially in expensive items (like blown engine or transmission). Also, if something falls out of warranty, but it's a more common occurrence, they will ask you to pony up for a repair, whereas a customer with track record of leaving thousands of bucks already, may actually get that item fixed either free, or at reduced cost. A good example may be my friend's 2010 (or so) C300 that had issue with a starter motor, reportedly quite common for those years. Lucky people got it fixed under warranty, unlucky people were at MB's mercy and results were all over the place, from free to full price. Another friend has Nissan Altima with meting dashboard. Same results.

    As I've said before, I'm blessed to have a great BMW dealer and a great Mazda dealer- neither of them push unnecessary work and both charge very reasonable prices for service and repairs. In the case of my BMW dealer I recieve a 20% discount off both parts and labor- 10% for being a member of BMW CCA and 10% for being a "VIP" customer(multiple vehicle purchases, etc.).

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Per Penske Automotive's annual report

    Sales vs Gross Profit amounts and ratio on retail vehicle sales

    Penske
    New car sales 52% vs 27% .51
    Used car sales 30% vs 14% .46
    F&I 3% vs 18% 6.0
    Service & Parts 10% vs 41% 4.1
    Fleet 5% vs 0% 0

    Auto nation
    New Car Sales 57% vs 22% .39
    Used Car Sales 23% vs 12% .52
    F&I 4% vs 25% 6.25
    Service & Parts 15% vs 40% 2.67
    Other 1% vs 1% 0


    As you can see, F&I has the highest profit margins and service and parts is where the most revenue and profits are generated. Although it's only two companies, it can be extrapolated across other dealerships.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited May 2015
    dino001 said:

    I hear what some of you are saying about service on a Mercedes, but I'm not a car neophyte. How many checks can they do? Hoses? Brake Fluid? Power Steering fluid (maybe not that since I think the steering may be electric driven)? Radiator? Tires? Air filter? Cabin Filter? Oil and filter change?

    Graphic, you're missing the point. The outrageous pricing on those services is not based on actual cost of the service, or its breath and depth. In that department, there is some differential based on some of the components being truly more expensive, but that would only constitute 10-20 percent premium. The rest is margins from the manufacturer to the dealer (dealer probably also pays inflated costs vs. dealers of other brands), then multiplied by margins from the dealer to the customer. Those margins have to include the "free" stuff (actual cost), certifications (also actual cost) and the higher unit profit (lower volumes on luxury items have to translate to higher margins per unit). Markets are very efficient in extracting costs for high volume items through competition. However, low volume luxury items have different economics, the value is perceived differently. Unaccustomed customer is usually shocked at the differential.

    This principal can be even better demonstrated in hospitality industry - up to a certain level, there is a race how much more they can provide you at a given price point. It's amazing how quickly major chains included internet (first wire, then wifi), or complimentary breakfast in the room, not to mention other things. Then, after you cross certain threshold of pricing, you discover that a room or suite were just a beginning of drainage of your wallet. I remember a Sheraton asking ten bucks, or something equally ridiculous, for internet less than four years ago, whereas Super 8 Motel (or Courtyard) would have it included in the price. I can only imagine price of internet at Ritz Carlton in Manhattan.

    At least Mercedes takes the $300 for $60 service, but then lets you have $10 coffee, or $50 loaner for a day.

    dino....they can charge whatever they want. I can't tell them how to price their service. That's their responsibility. From what I'm reading, the Benz pricing is the same regardless of geographic region.

    My Caddy dealer gives free loaners, as did my Acura dealer and my BMW dealer, too. They all offer fresh pastries, high end coffee, juices and sodas in their waiting areas. My Caddy dealer offers the use of a conference room and my own cubicle with WiFi to plug in my laptop, complete with printer. Free car washes, too.

    So, I guess it looks like Mercedes chooses to price their service higher than their competition. I don't see much, if any difference to justify those charges. It's not a little higher, either. It's a LOT higher....7X, 8X even 9X the pricie of their competitors. But, that's the way they want to do it.

    Mike, I mean no disrespect. I know you and driver love your cars, as you should. However, I do get similar service and the prices aren't anywhere near what Mercedes charges. They choose to price it the way they do. Their business, not mine.

    But, at the end of the day, it cost them a customer (my wife). Frankly, I was totally expecting her to jump on that C400 we drove over the weekend. She even asked me if I would sell her Accord for her. But, that deal came to a screeching halt when she found out about the service prices. I'm sure she's in the minority as many don't even think about service prices until AFTER they buy their car. That's not my wife, though.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    jayrider said:

    Ownership of luxury cars can come with expensive maintenance. If you want value pricing, do like I did and buy a Buick. $45 oil changes with an inspection report. But my Buick is not a Mercedes Benz. I can afford a MB but it just doesn't interest me -- I don't drive enough and I'm busy spending money on other things. If I did buy one, I wouldn't be concerned about the service costs. It comes with the territory. Repair costs after the warranty expires are another matter. To each his/her own.

    If maintenance and repair costs were a real concern I wouldn't drive an MB.

    No one wants to pay high repair/maintenance cost.

    I try to keep it under control as much as possible though. Try to have a car that is under warranty and buy the maintenance package.

    If I kept the car past the warranty I would probably get it repaired at an indie garage.

    I see more older MBs than any other car, so maybe though the actual repairs/maintenance bills are high, the cost of ownership over say 20 years may actually be less.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    edited May 2015
    Graphicguy, your observations are, as always, insightful as well as correct, IMHO.  One does not consider all of the factors and variables of long term ownership of an expensive or higher priced new vehicle.  

    BMW is almost maintenance free for 4 years including brakes, fan belts, etc.  That is what originally drew me to buy 4 different 5 series Bimmers.  But then other factors drew me to Mercedes-Benz.

    I prefer the ride, handling, styling, comfort and build quality of the Mercedes-Benz.  So, I considered the trade-offs of paying for service and made my decision.  The trade values of my Mercedes-Benz vehicles have been better as well since my dealer values my trades quite above wholesale because of the way I take care of my cars and the fairly low mileage they are turned in at.

    It's all a matter of perspective - but aren't most things?

    2021 Genesis G90

  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    verdugo said:

    abacomike said:


    The answer is simple - YES they can set limits of required insurance.  $1000 deductible collision is the highest deductible allowed on every lease I've ever seen.  $100,000-$300,000 are the minimum limits allowed on all leases I've ever seen for liability coverage.

    You signed the lease and the lease specifies the minimum limits and what you are required to have.

    The difference in premium should not be very much.  As for returning the vehicle, you can, but you must make all the remaining payments and pay an early termination fee.  Or trade the Jeep in on a new one - but you will be very unhappy with the trade allowance on the current Jeep.

    Just pay the few extra bucks for going from $1500 to $1000 deductible collision.  The big difference in premium would be if you had to go to $500 or $250 deductible.
    Thanks Mike. To be honest I had never thought to check for a deductible limit in the contract.

    I'll call my insurance agent tomorrow. :'(


    Speaking of insurance...

    Louisiana is the most expensive state to be a poor driver in. Its annual base premium of $3,147 is the second highest in the country behind Michigan. And being a bad driver will really pile on the cost. Ouch!

    Getting into two accidents in a year adds $2,953 a year to a driver's premium, while getting convicted for a DUI adds $1,946 per year. Being caught for reckless driving adds $1,427 a year, while driving with a suspended license adds $1,393 per year, according to WalletHub.
    Source: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13143555/10/10-worst-states-to-be-a-terrible-driver.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    In 2010, I moved from Idaho (51st) to Michigan (3rd). That was painful. NM is middling okay at #27.
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    stever said:
    In 2010, I moved from Idaho (51st) to Michigan (3rd). That was painful. NM is middling okay at #27.
    I live in Florida - but rates vary by zip codes.  My brother has an identical E 400 sedan up in Ponte Vedra FL and pays 1/2 of what I pay here in the far northern suburbs of Ft. Launderdale for identical coverages.  Just 15 miles north of where I live I would pay 1/3 less per year.

    I don't know where FL rates stand in comparison to other States, but when I lived in the Poconos (PA), I paid $290 ever 6 months.

    Because we are a partial no-fault State, we were supposed to have lower rates, but they actually increased 25% because of the fraud involved with the Personal Injury Coverages we are forced to carry.

    It's a sham!

    2021 Genesis G90

  • tommister2tommister2 Member Posts: 393
    I have a selling story but it's not very exciting. I purchased a 2014 Jeep Wrangler last week so I decided to sell my 1997. I listed it on Craigslist last Wednesday. The first person that contacted me was also the first to actually come look at it and they bought it. He was just about to turn 18 so his parents were involved. I don't text much but this kid texted a lot of questions. I had to get comfortable in the new world :) I was asking $5800, he offered $5300 and we settled on $5500. He looked at it Sunday evening and brought cash Monday afternoon.
    2011 Toyota Camry, 2014 Jeep Wrangler, 2017 Honda Civic Coupe, 2019 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2022 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Tesla Model 3
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    I have a selling story but it's not very exciting. I purchased a 2014 Jeep Wrangler last week so I decided to sell my 1997. I listed it on Craigslist last Wednesday. The first person that contacted me was also the first to actually come look at it and they bought it. He was just about to turn 18 so his parents were involved. I don't text much but this kid texted a lot of questions. I had to get comfortable in the new world :) I was asking $5800, he offered $5300 and we settled on $5500. He looked at it Sunday evening and brought cash Monday afternoon.
    Sounds picture perfect - and again congrats on the wheels.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • tommister2tommister2 Member Posts: 393


    For the weekend I owned one of each Wrangler generation - YJ, TJ and JK. Hope the picture shows up and isn't sideways.
    2011 Toyota Camry, 2014 Jeep Wrangler, 2017 Honda Civic Coupe, 2019 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2022 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Tesla Model 3
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,056



    For the weekend I owned one of each Wrangler generation - YJ, TJ and JK. Hope the picture shows up and isn't sideways.

    That picture gave me my chuckle for the day ... couldn't you have at least gotten red, white and blue?

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  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Oh, it shows up all right! For a moment I thought I had more serious eye troubles than I do or that someone slipped a hallucinogen in my drink and then realized it's indeed three separate vehicles...

    Leaving in 20 minutes or so for the 5. Likely well into the night by the time I'm back.

    When I have pictures the lawn won't look at all like that....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    For the weekend I owned one of each Wrangler generation - YJ, TJ and JK. Hope the picture shows up and isn't sideways.
    Oh, yeah?  Where's the TJR or the LMN or the STU or the VWXYZ?  And you thought you had them all - rubbish! :smile: 

    2021 Genesis G90

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    abacomike said:

    I don't know where FL rates stand in comparison to other States

    Florida is #15. (Wallethub)
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    edited May 2015
    stever said:
    I don't know where FL rates stand in comparison to other States
    Florida is #15. (Wallethub)
    Thanks, stever.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    edited May 2015


    Thanks Mike. To be honest I had never thought to check for a deductible limit in the contract.

    I'll call my insurance agent tomorrow. :'(


    ,
    while getting convicted for a DUI adds $1,946 per year. Being caught for reckless driving adds $1,427 a year, while driving with a suspended license adds $1,393 per year, according to WalletHub.
    Source: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13143555/10/10-worst-states-to-be-a-terrible-driver.html

    I don't feel too sorry for anyone in those last 3 categories.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964



    For the weekend I owned one of each Wrangler generation - YJ, TJ and JK. Hope the picture shows up and isn't sideways.

    Let me guess.....you really love the color red!

    Jeeps look really cute, and they look great in red. Too bad you can't keep them all. I can't tell which is the new one and which is the older one....that's a good thing. I wouldn't mind one for $5500!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    NJ only 41st? Darn, we need to try harder. Used to be right up at the top in this.

    at least my plan to move to NC (#4) keeps looking better and better!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • tommister2tommister2 Member Posts: 393
    @driver100 Jeep has done a good job of adding modern features but staying true to the vehicle, in my opinion.

    My first Wrangler was a brand new 1990 and it was white. I've also owned a burgundy TJ and a green Sahara (back when they were only available with green paint). I purchased all of the red ones used. I like red but I would have gone with another color if one had come my way.
    2011 Toyota Camry, 2014 Jeep Wrangler, 2017 Honda Civic Coupe, 2019 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2022 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Tesla Model 3
  • murphydogmurphydog Member Posts: 735
    edited May 2015


    GG for what it is worth the service intervals are usually 1 year or ~ 11,000 miles - at least that is the case for my 08 C350. Given that the service is way more expensive, but the frequency was half that of my Mazda 3 I was comfortable making the leap.

    I have done the annual services and when it developed a leak in an AC line one year out of warranty MBUSA (with input from the dealer) fixed it for free. I have only needed one repair - an oil leak from a couple of seals on the rear of the valve train covers. The dealer fixed for less than $300 - was expected 2 -3x more, and in fact was getting ready to tackle myself.

    Net net, the service does cost more, but in my case it is not 7x-9x more.

    Now back to my secret plan to upgrade my current C 350 with a C 450 Sport when they arrive later this fall... :)
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    @murphydog:  Murph, I think that C450 will have the same 3.0 L V6 as I have in my car, but I know they've always had plans to increase that bi-turbo's horsepower.

    Additionally, there's a new inline 6 coming out next Spring in the 2017 E along with the 3.0 L V6.  I heard rumors they are doing away with the "350" engine (3.5 L V6 302 horsepower)

    2021 Genesis G90

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    abacomike said:

    It's all a matter of perspective - but aren't most things

    Truer words have never been spoken.....;)

    I think at some point my wife may end up with a Mercedes. I think the shock of the service will wear off. She liked the C400 that much.

    Me personally? If I were going to make a move in the Benz family it would probably be to the CLA AMG (which the KY dealer also had). They offered a test drive. But, I knew I would be too tempted if I took them up on their offer.

    I'm just now getting used to a comfortable ride in a good handling car. If I went back to a rocket, I'd never be comfortable again......LOL!
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    @tommister2,
    I thought your picture was a quiz to see if we could figure out which one is the one you sold.
    Truthfully, I have no idea.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    GG, the CLA, IMHO, is not the same riding or driving or nicely appointed C Class.  CLA is FWD vs. RWD or AWD C Class.

    I think 329 horsepower/354 lb ft torque is a bit too much for a C Class sedan.  280-300 hp would be ideal.  Just my opinion as an old fogey.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,056
    abacomike said:
    GG, the CLA, IMHO, is not the same riding or driving or nicely appointed C Class.  CLA is FWD vs. RWD or AWD C Class.

    I think 329 horsepower/354 lb ft torque is a bit too much for a C Class sedan.  280-300 hp would be ideal.  Just my opinion as an old fogey.
    Yeah but he was referring to the AMG model which is AWD. 

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  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,254
    @Michaell:  Sorry, I didn't pick that up at first.  AMG is a "horse of a different color" in any model, to be sure.  Different suspensions, interiors, hand made engines, to name a few.  

    2021 Genesis G90

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