Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Best Hot Hatch - SVT, Civic Si, GTI, RSX, Mini, Beetle...

revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
edited April 8 in Acura
Their are alot of new hatches out that are performance oriented. Just thought I would start something to compare them all. What is the best new hot hatch? Focus SVT, GTI 1.8t, GTI VR6, Mini Cooper S, Civic Si?

I know celicas, integras and the new RSX are hatches but they are more akin to sports coupes IMO.

BMW has a new compact hatch coming out and it is supposed to be better than the last.

I think hatches are very cool but I wish we had more interesting ones like those found in Europe and the UK
«13456744

Comments

  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Here is a question, has anyone heard anything on another new focus (besides the SVT) that is supposed to have awd, turbo (like the rally car) and 230hp to be sold in the US? I think I read something about in a UK mag.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Posts: 1,339
    There is a Focus RS in Europe right now, and the car you describe is the upcoming Cosworth Focus. Neither car will come to the U.S. - I think you can be pretty sure of that. Why? You can thank our products liability lawyers and their friends in the insurance industry for one... and Ford isn't likely to offer U.S. consumers a hatchback that will stomp a Mustang and cannibalize sales from that creaking dinosaur.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Posts: 1,339
    This topic is going to be a problem as well... who says the Matrix is a "hatchback"? Four doors and a tailgate sounds more like a station wagon to me - horrors! You'll have to open the floodgates and include the upcoming Mazda Protege 5 door, and the PT Cruiser, and the hilarious Mercedes "sport coupe" wannabe hatchback, and... you get the idea.
  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    But 4 doors and a hatch can also be a hatchback. It is kind of hard to draw a hard fast line between a 5 door hatchback and a station wagon, but I think the real determining factor would be that a wagon is 1. as long as a sedan and 2. has a mostly squared off back. Thus the Matrix is a wagon because it is probably as long as a sedan on that platform would have been and it has a squared off back.. The Golf 5 door is shorter than the Jetta hence it is a hatch... etc.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I think the real difference is that a wagon has a trunk extension past the back tires built in to a covered area and a 5 door hatch has the rear door coming right up behind the wheels.

    Yeah, with the mustang selling so good why would they stop now right? Their is a new mustang set to come out built on the lincoln LS platform , maybe if they made it big enough it they wouldn't compete as much. Ah who am i kidding, No one in the states would pay 25-27k for a focus anyway (well if it was good I might).

    What is the deal with product liability lawers anyway? So the industry gets in trouble if it builds a really fast inexpensive car? The new WRX has about the same hp as the cosworth focus and they are both AWD what is the difference?
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Edmunds.com's First Drive of the 2002 Mini Cooper is now available. Here's a direct link.


    Thanks for your comments. ;-)


    Pocahontas
    Host
    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons Message Boards

  • njbongonjbongo Posts: 66
    Speaking of the Matrix..anyone notice that the Pontiac VIBE GT looks like its evil twin...well, it is. It's built on the Matrix platform and apparently, Toyota is going to give Pontiac the V6 from the current Celica GT-S.

    I'm sure Ponitiac will find a way to crapify it ! (Is that a word?) But it's interesting that Toyota is NOT using the same V6 in theirs. That leads me to believe that they are probably developing a BETTER engine for the Celica and Matrix. After all, pay MORE for the MATRIX unless it's BETTER than the Vibe.

    just a thought....it's not very surprising to see this happen, since GM's Chevy Prizm is really a reworked Corolla....and Pontiac is just another useless GM company. (Yes, I do hate GM...sorry if I offend anyone). On the other hand I love Toyota, maybe they can actually teach GM to make good cars someday, instead of just giving them all of their designs !!!

    later
  • njbongonjbongo Posts: 66
    Oh, yeah....I own a 2001 Focus ZX3...my honest opinion is that the SVT Focus is going to toast them all...especially the new Civc SI. My regular stock ZX3 toasts the regualr Civic's all the time...and the Ford SVT team like to win !!!
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    V6 in celica GT-S? I believe its a four.

    What is the svt focus going to weigh in at, anybody know? also how much is it supposed to cost?

    The new GTI GLS is supposed to get an hp increase to 170 hp. Its more expensive but I drove the current one with the 1.8t engine and it was pretty quick.

    This could get interesting. All the numbers seem to be very close on these new models.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    As 'rev' noted, the GT-S is a DOHC four cylinder with VVTi and either 6-speed manual or four-speed e-shift transmission. It produces 180 hp. The Matirx and Vibe share the same platform, and only the styling is different.

    I like both, although I prefer the more carlike styling of the Matrix. the Vibe should do very well, and there is no way for Pontiac to mess it up -- they will be built at the plant they share with Toyota in California.

    Toyota and GM have had a good working relationship for years, and will continue to for some time to come. They're sharing technology in other ways, including using the GM OnStar system at Lexus. They are also working together on alternate fuel technologies.
  • njbongonjbongo Posts: 66
    Sorry, what I meant to say is the V6 in the Japanese Version of the Celica GT-S...it's also the same one in the Lexus IS300. (On a side note, the Japanese Toyota model called the Alteza IS the IS300's twin, only with a 160HP Four (probably the US Celica's engine). Sometimes things don't make it from my brain to the keyboard. HOWEVER...they are supposed to put a V6 in the US GT-S by 2003, but it will be a different (and probably better) V6 than the above one. I'm going by what I was told at the NY auto show...the VIBE GT they had there was a V6...but still marked 'prototype'...the Matrix also had a V6 (as 'optional')...

    I was being a little sarcastic about GM crappifying it....I know the Corolla and Prizm come outof the same plant, HOWEVER..if you drive both of them within a short time..you can definetly feel a difference. The Corolla feels way more refined than the Prizm, and more quiet....no it's not in my head, many people have said this.

    The Corolla probably has some extra 'sound deadening' and some other features that make it better. Also, if you compare the interiors of the two...they are a little different.

    I expect the same with the Vibe and the Matrix...I'm sure the Matrix will 'feel' better.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    'Cause that's what I'm buying!

    I've had three Pontiacs, though, and loved them too -- a '68 Firebird 350, '69 Grand Prix SJ and '89 Firebird 350. Great road cars, and I adored the styling in all three.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Your getting a matrix huh? What is going to happen to the turbo rolla?

    njbongo... Where have you seen the japanese V6 celica?

    I think the real competition here is between the SVT focus, the civic si and the new GTI 1.8t. The GTI has the comfort and interior design the civic has the build quality and the ford has the price. I want to know how much each of these are going to weigh?
  • majorthomechomajorthomecho Posts: 1,331
    Isn't this a little premature to be talking about vehicles that [for the most part] are not even on sale [here] yet?

    We only think they are going to be "hot."

    Personally, I think the pictures I have seen of the Matrix and the Vibe show that the Matrix is the one suffering from "Aztek" disease and not very "hot". Surprising considering that Matrix is the Toyota offering and Vibe is the GM offering.

    Then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Toyota did give us the Echo, after all. ; )
  • 88delta8888delta88 Posts: 1
    Doesn't the IS300 have a straight 6 and not a V6? Or is that also a Japan only deal? I, too would like to know where you saw this V6 GT-S, sounds very interesting.
  • zirconzircon Posts: 62
    Man, someone driving a Ford should not be criticizing gm - they both suck big time. Check you tires and watch CNN for today's recall before you head out. No wonder these guys are losing their market.

    Vibe is a better looking car than matrix which looks like it has been 'pontiaced'. On the other hand, it appears they are going to play games with the engine/drivetrain choices. Don't get hopes up too high.
  • njbongonjbongo Posts: 66
    I read it at http://www.toyota.co.jp...look under concepts section. Also, if you search through the US Sites 'news', it mentions the V6 going on sale in JP for 2002.


    Well, I looked at the Lexus website, and it does say inline six....I was slo going by what the Toyota guy at the NY Auto show was saying, maybe he was confused. You Alteza (IS300) at the above site.


    Either way, regardless of what engines the final versions of the Vibe and Matrix have...they are still the same car with slightly different 'faces'.


    And zircon.....I'll have to disagree with you on a few things. First off, Ford may not be the best carmaker of all time, but out of the American companies...I'll tke my chances with them when compared to Chrysler or GM. Secondly, have you ever actually read anything about the Firestone tire recall? It doesn't affect CARS, unless of course you have mounted Wilderness AT Tires on your car. Have you? And also, that is more Firestone's fault than Ford's and Ford has also taken a loss to ensure that ALL of those tires are placed.


    I'm curious though, while you trashing Ford, what are you driving?

  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Actually firestone is blaming ford now from what I last heard. Something like they asked firestone to build tires to a certain spec level even though it was not good enough to handle the weight of their suv's. Why they would do that I don't know. I am not sure I believe it since firestone has been guilty of this same problem in the past I think more than once. Anyway firestone is now going to seperate themselves from ford so you don't have to worry about getting a ford with firestones for much longer.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    I'm selling the Rolla to reduce my debt-to-income ratio (I'm refinancing my house). Toysport is planning to buy it off of me to keep it as their project car. We'll see what happens.

    I thought about taking the turbo off and putting it on the Matrix, but I'll probably just put a high-boost system on it when the time comes. I think it's the perfect car for my needs right now.
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    image



    Edmunds.com's First Look of the 2002 Honda Civic Si is now available. Here's the full story: 2002 Honda Civic Si, Return of the Great Cheap Date, by By Warren Clarke. What do you think?


    Also, for more discussion on the 2002 Honda Civic Si, feel free to join us in our ongoing Honda Civic Si discussion on the Hatchbacks Message Board. Happy Motoring!


    Pocahontas

    Host

    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards

«13456744
This discussion has been closed.