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Best Hot Hatch - SVT, Civic Si, GTI, RSX, Mini, Beetle...

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Comments

  • shov6shov6 Posts: 177
    Well at least two of the top auto magazines have put forward THEIR answer for the best of the hot hatches, and the answer is...

    The Ford Focus SVT.

    Car and Driver put the SVT first when comparing it to the GTI and the Civic Si, and put the car on its' Top Ten list. Again.

    Automobile Magazine compared the same cars as above, and threw in the MP3 and the Sentra SE-R Spec V, and again the SVT came out on top. The Focus also has the distinction of having been on their All-Stars list for both the regular Focus AND the SVT model individually.

    Perhaps this helps.

    -SHOV6
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Here's a direct link to Edmunds' Spin Around Town: 2002 Acura RSX, by Phillip Reed.

    image

    Thanks for your comments. Happy Motoring.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    "The V6 and transmission combination gives the Tiburon a real advantage over other more expensive sport coupes like the Acura RSX (no V6), Toyota Celica (no V6) and Mitsubishi Eclipse (no six-speed)."

    Read the full story here: First Drive: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon, John Pearley Huffman. And let us know what you think.

    Also, for more discussion on the Hyundai Tiburon (both 2003 and previous generation models), join us in 2003 Hyundai Tiburon - What do you think? and Hyundai Tiburon, Owner Experiences & News. Thanks for your participation.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • http://www.vwvortex.com/features/12_01/12_28/index.shtml


    Now this is a "hot" hatch. Should be coming to the US as the Driver's Edition with only slight changes.

  • that civic looks like a mini van. But if it is that fast I could learn to love it.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I want to see hyundai come out with an AWD WRC inspired version of the accent hatch. This would be perfect to capitalize on their WRC investment and with rally products gaining popularity here in the US it could be a good move to sell here to jump in this niche before everyone else.

    I am not sure how they would position it with the tiburon. I think they would have to sell a warm version right under the base tiburon and a mad hardcore spec model in the 23-25k range. This would be a full on AWD turbo charged beast. They would have to sell the mad version in really small numbers, so as not to eat away at tiburon sales, since they probably wouldn't make money on this model anyway. The warm version would be what most people got and it would need to be comparable in performance to the civic si and focus svt for less money. The mad version is just to up the brand name and for bragging rights. Hyundai needs to focus on young people now so they can have a bright future.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    Celica GT-S
    Top motor in both US & Japan is the 2ZZ-GE, with is a DOHC 1.8L with VVTL-i (L for lift control). The Japanese version gets more power from using higher octane gas (the ECU is recalibrated for the US)

    Altezza/IS300
    The 160 bhp motor in the Altezza (Japan and Europe IS200) is a 1G-FE 2.0L straight-6 with VVT-i (I believe it's VVT-i). The Altezza in Japan (at one time called the AS200) has a 210 (6-speed manual) or 200 (automatic) bhp 2.0L 3S-GE Dual VVT-i motor. With the introduction of the SportCross this year, the 2JZ-GE (IS300) motor has been added. The 2JZ-GE motor was an US exclusive, until 2002.

    Vibe/Matrix
    The Vibe GT at the autoshows had the 2ZZ-GE motor, not a V6. Ditto for the Matrix XRS
  • toyotas1toyotas1 Posts: 134
    the SVT against the Si/GTI/SpecV and whupped 'em. I used to sell 'em, so I wasn't surprised. It is the BEST value in this market. If it wasn't so ugly...... I like the RSX better, but with the necessary add-ons it's $27k!!!!
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I want to see a Focus Cosworth brought to the states after we find out if the EVO 7 and WRX STi will be popular. I think SCCA pro-rally might have gained a bigger audience by then and ford should play up on the AWD rally car niche and bring this beast here as an entry in to the sport and as a consumer car. Keep it in the 23-25k range, about the same as the regular WRX.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    hasn't the Cosworth Focus been pushed back to 2004?
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Has ford actually made a stated commitment to selling this car in the US?
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    I just linked some new tools and resources to the Helpful links on the left side of the page. Happy motoring!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    no I don't believe so. My hope is that Mitsubishi brings the Evo VII over here and it sells well. Hopefully that would at least entice Ford to sell the Cosworth Focus here. 280HP and AWD would be nice for sure.
  • mbeards2mbeards2 Posts: 4
    I was ready to buy an SVT focus, Nissan se-r spec v, civic si, VW gti, Celica gt-s, subaru impreza or Hyundai Tiburon. I liked the Acura RSX-s and WRX but they were too expensive.
    I read car and drivers hot hatch review as well as motor trends comparision. I also read a lot online and looked at each car.My thoughts .......
    SVT Focus= very limited production, race car handling, nice looks, average 0-60,avg resale,dealer won't budge on price
    Hyundai= great looks, V6 power only average HP, low price, great warranty,low resale value
    Spec V= 7.22 0-60mph, big 4 banger with some harshness, limited production, dealer won't budge much,handles close to the focus svt
    civic SI= silky motor, silky shifter, reliable, avg handling, a little slow 0-60 7.8,dealer won't budge much,high resale
    celica GT-s= quick 6.9sec 0-60,nimble with great handling and the best brakes,high resale and reliability, notchy shifter and no torque so you must constantly row the 6 speed and run the motor over 6000rpm
    subaru impreza= 7.8sec 0-60,handling below avg,a great value for a loaded 4wd sporty car,overall the lack of punch and the poor handling turned me away.
    Then I bought the VW GTI 1.8T 180 HP= the muscle car hatch of the group 0-60 6.5, silky smooth 1.8 20v turbo motor voted on wards 10 best engines again,avg handling, high resale,interior quality rivals expensive cars,safe car with yes...6 airbags,4/50k warranty, dealer willing to haggle($1200 off msrp and 4.9% 5 year financing thru VW)
    The VW is the best equiped it even has ABS,traction control and 6 air bags standard. Mileage is rated the highest 24/31 even though this is the hottest motor of them all. It is easy to bump HP to over 200 with a simple $400 chip that boost the turbo PSI. When you buy a VW you are getting an Audi sophisticated motor and Audi like interior on a $20,000 car. Each car has its highlights but the GTI has more in my opinion:
    *fastest pocket rocket *safest *best engine *best interior *best mileage *most equipment *easy to hop up
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Posts: 865
    Isn't the GT-S pretty much in the same price range as the RSX?

    I'm very fond of the new 1.8T, so I think you made a great pick, please post if you make any modifications to your suspension.
  • mbeards2mbeards2 Posts: 4
    I pick up my indigo blue GTI in a few days. MSRP was $20950, I paid $19,750:
    base model with sunroof, monsoon audio and cold weather package. Once I test drove one and felt the silky smooth power rush with the high quality interior, I was drooling. Even though the upcoming VR6 motor option will have 201 hp, I think the 1.8T is just as fast due to lower weight,plus its cheaper,has better mileage and is easy to hop up. Buy a $400 chip to get 200+HP and you have a potent fast and furious hatchback! The handling is average among the group but there are many hopups available. For 2002 VW dropped the price a little, added 16" wheels and CD, 2 more air bags, a better warranty and best of all 30 more horses! VW March 4.9% financing saves hundreds too. Consider this, a normal 7% rate would cost me $20 more per month which adds up to $1200 more for the car!(60months X 20 per month)
    The Acura RSX-s is hard to haggle the price down, so I think you end up paying $23,650. On carsdirect.com the loaded celica is $2000 cheaper at $21,688.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Posts: 865
    I'm not sure what the appeal of the VR6 is going to be with only 21 more horsepower. The last GTI VR6 ran $4,000+ over the 1.8T.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    I just noticed that the Celica GT-S is missing from this comparison. Any particular reason?
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Posts: 865
    mbeards mentioned the GT-S, or do you mean the discussion title?
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    I must confess I haven't read every post since the beginning, so I guess I missed that one.
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    I can always add/remove vehicles from the title here. And since you brought up the issue, I've just added Celica GT-S to the title. ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    what about the Geo Metro ;-)
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Metro isn't even warm, as far as performance goes it is frigid. One of the absolute worst cars I have ever had the displeasure of driving. I don't know why they even bother selling this model. GM has pretty good small cars but they don't even bother selling them here. I can't blame them but I think things may be changing. Several auto makers seem to be planning to turn US perception of small cars around in the near future.

    I tested the GTI. It is a great car and now you get much better performance for a lower price too. If these changes had been made sooner I might have gotten one. Compared to the many japanese sport coupes I tested I thought this car had much more character even if it is not as hard edged. Have they started offering in dash CD changers/players yet?

    If you make any aftermarket alterations though I have heard from friends who own VR6's you void the warranty on the car.
  • mbeards2mbeards2 Posts: 4
    My GTI came with CD/cassette in dash standard. Edmunds rated the GTI 2nd out of 6 coupes. And that was the 2001 model, for 2002 VW has jumped from 150hp to 180hp, added side curtain air bags,more standard equipment(CD,16" alloys) and has a better warranty. Edmunds 2001 0-60mph figure of 8.5 is high since I have seen 7.1 - 7.6 for the 150hp engine everywhere else. Maybe edmunds did not turn off traction control??? The new 180hp=0-60mph in 6.5-6.8sec depending where it is tested. My current car is a 1996 Pontiac Sunfire convertible(fun car) with the 2.4 DOHC 150hp motor/5 speed. Sunfire 0-60 is 7.9 seconds and believe me...the GTI throws you back in the seat with high torque and HP bigtime. At the same time the VW motor is silky smooth and thrifty. VW base model is LOADED with extras: floor mats, a cabin air filter, alarm, traction control,heated mirrors, and ABS are all standard in the base model. If you are looking for a coupe around $20K, you should test drive the GTI 1.8T. The upcoming 201hp VR6 with 6 speed is heavier, around $1500 more, gets less gas mileage and has a heavier front end. Also, the VR6 engine is harder to hop up, while you can get a $400 chip to bump the 1.8T to over 200hp/240 lbs of torque!
  • risa5risa5 Posts: 23
    I just saw an article about the 2002 Geneva Motor Show and one of the new cars featured was the hatchback Porsche Cayenne. It's being billed as an SUV, but it definitely looks more like a four-door hatchback and not a particularly sporty one at that. It looks a bit retro to me. The Turbo version has a 4.5-liter twin turbocharged V8 rated at 450 horsepower. The S has a 4.5-liter V8 producing 340 horsepower.

    P.S. The name is not terribly spicy either. I'm a major foodie and cayenne for a car just seems to lack punch.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    The WRX. It's in the same price range as the VR6, Celica GTS, RSX Type-S, etc. It now becomes the rocket of the bunch. Get into the interior, it doesn't have the GTI sophistication.

    Congrats on the GTI mbeards2. You did get the 5-speed manual right? (Note there is a 5-speed automatic tiptronic also, very nice transmission, complements the engine pretty well).

    7,000 more miles until I Upsolute my 02 TDI!!!
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Have you guys had any problems with your GTI's/Golf's? I hear great things about VW build quality but not very good things about their build durability. I heard a rumor a while back that VW also had a new Karman Ghia or Scirocco in the works?
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    a modern Scirocco or Corrado!
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I think it would be better to call it a Karman Ghia since more people probably remember the name of that car, but it could go either way.
  • I think these are the top two. The rest are too expensive for what you get or are just plain bad performers.

    The best choice for you depends on your style - the SVT is a road course car. It makes up for it's average acceleration and power by having top-notch handling. The Car and Driver review shows this - it was the fastest car around the track.
    - the GTI is a car for stoplight driving and for fitting in with the [how do you say trendy without invoking negative connotations?] crowd. It's possibly the best looking and the interior blows everything else out of the water.

    A few months after the release of the SVT, the aftermarket will have plenty of go-fast options. I suspect that if you increase the power of the SVT to GTI levels and increase the handling of the GTI to SVT levels, you'll have two awesome cars that are within $1000 or $2000 of each other, both of which will embarrass plenty of Mustang and Camaro owners.
This discussion has been closed.