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Toyota 4WD systems explained

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Comments

  • pokypoky Member Posts: 2
    I am trying to decide to purchase a new 2003 or 2004 rav4, are there 'enough' differences to purchase the 2004?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    If the 04 AWD system has been upgraded in the manner of the HL and RX then the 04 is certainly a better value.
  • vodgutvodgut Member Posts: 162
    I think they also went from a 2.0 to 2.4 liter engine for 2004, so it's more powerful. I think they made other improvements, too.
  • albivalbiv Member Posts: 35
    I too had the thump on my '03. Started at about 1500 miles. I lubed the driveshafts and the thump's gone. Interesting that they required grease after only 1500 miles. I have almost 4000 miles on it now and no thump.
  • himcdonoughhimcdonough Member Posts: 4
    Idaho - My LC has 62k on it but only the last 3k or so are mine. The tires are pretty new with some of the nubbies still on them and they were rotated at about 59k. Measuring sounds like an interesting idea that I could try as the "drive" and "coast" scenario seems to fit. I haven't tried shifting to neutral either, perhaps in the morning. I like the greasing idea as it's simple but it seems to conflict with the dealers notion to drain the excess out. I suppose on the next oil change I'll have them go over the entire drive line and grease it. I can't lie, it's getting annoying as I don't expect a vehicle of this calibre to have this glitch. Thanks for the posts.
  • nakeddognakeddog Member Posts: 3
    My 1992 4Runner V6 (302,000 kms) seems to be in 4WD and it will not disengage.

    I put it in 4WD a couple of weeks ago for the 1st time this winter, and just noticed from the 'hum'/ vibration, that I believe it's still in 4WD.

    Questions:
    - with the age of the vehicle, I don't want to spend lots of money on it. Do you believe this problem could likely be fixed for minimal $$$?

    - I just had my brakes done (new pads, rotors, etc), would this have affected anything?

    - also, my rear antilock brake light has been on for a number of months as well...is this related?....what is the problem here?...

    Please help me !
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Different size tires on front vs rear?

    Even worn on one end vs the other?

    Try backing up slowly and then slip the transmission into neutral while still moving slowly. If that doesn't work try the same thing forward.

    My 92 Jeep starting doing that with new tires on the rear and 20K wear on the fronts, The above procedure solved the problem each time.

    Oh, just thought.

    The anti-lock indication could be for the same reason, different rotation rates, continually, front vs rear would put the anti-lock ECU out of service.
  • nakeddognakeddog Member Posts: 3
    Same tires I've had on for years, both 31".

    ...but I will give your suggestion a try...will let you know...tks !
  • wsommarivawsommariva Member Posts: 157
    We have a 2002 and a 2004. Definitely get the 2004. More power that is noticeable, ABS, traction control (or something like that),tire pressure monitors, "better" inside colors, wheel mounted radio controls, variable intermittent wipers, many a few more differences between the 02s and 04s. Also we paid almost $500 less for the 04. Remember I'm comparing 02s with 04s. However I bet you could get a great deal on leftover 03s.
  • terrafirmaterrafirma Member Posts: 212
    It's called axle windup. It is a symptom of solid rear axle vehicles. That is why the slip yoke is there to release the wind up pressure.

    The slip yoke requires regular lubing. The thump indicates the slip yoke is not lubed or is otherwise sticking.
    Mechanically it doesn't hurt anything except your ears maybe.

    The reason it doesn't do it in Neutral is because you are not creating the drive stress on the driveshaft to create enough axle wind up in the first place.

    I would also double check your suspension - that a spring or shock bolt is not loose.

    Of course it could be something else but that is the absolute most common source of the noise as has been described.
    It is very easy to create that thump in any solid rear axle vehicle, new or used. Come to a fast stop and keep your foot on the brake. When you let go of the brake, thump. The wind up is released.
  • steelcruisersteelcruiser Member Posts: 402
    The issue of drive line thump on various Toys keeps coming up. I would like to suggest that those afflicted not only review previous posts re: proper lube, but consult appropriate shop manuals for proper torque for the drive lines (flange) to the diffs and T cases. If you don't have the manual for your vehicle, check with your dealer for the right specs. I think this might be one of those "overlooked" service items.

    HTH if you're having this problem.
  • ohsubieohsubie Member Posts: 8
    I am looking to by an 04 Tacoma 4X4 V6 extended cab automatic with the VSC/Trac control code (VD). Does any one have an experince with it or a price. The dealer here look at me a deer in the headlights Thanks
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    The slip yoke in the drive shaft is not to release axle windup (which is also not a solid axle symptom), but to allow the suspension to go up and down. As the suspension moves away from the body, the drive shaft must lengthen and vice versa.

    At any rate, you are correct it is often the issue and requires nothing more than a couple squirts of grease in the fitting.

    IdahoDoug
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    It isn't an available option. I did see it listed on Edmund's list of options, but it is NOT listed in Toyota's most current option list. I haven't checked the brochure, but if it is listed there, they dropped it before production. That is why they looked like a deer caught in the headlights.
  • nick4597nick4597 Member Posts: 50
    Just started using 4WD on my '03 Runner, works great but a few questions. How long should it take to switch from 2wd to 4wd and vice-versa? Sometimes it seems to take 5 minutes (My dash will be blinking the orange and green indicator lights). I also heard that with the new 4Runner it is OK to drive on dry pavement while in 4WD... just wanted to verify if this is true since I can't find it in the manual (maybe i'm blind). Thanks all!
  • kscotttkscottt Member Posts: 18
    my 04 sport hasn't taken more than about 30 seconds to switch, it's usually between 10-20 seconds. the manual does recommend, if it isn't switching right away, to let off the gas and brake a little bit (something like that anyway)

    it is ok to drive on dry pavement. matter of fact, the manual recommends driving at least 10 miles a month in 4wd no matter where you are to keep the front end lubed up.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    It shouldn't take 5 minutes unless you're driving up or down hill. You do need to change momentum on the drive line briefly for it to switch to 4WD or back to 2WD. If you're driving up hill, take your foot off the gas for a second and them hit it again. If driving down hill, tap the brakes.

    Yes, it is safe to leave it in 4WD all the time. In fact, the V8 will not even let you shift into 2WD.
  • coranchercorancher Member Posts: 232
    It probably bears repeating that you should not be be making significant turns while changing into (and out of?) 4WD. This can cause the system to bind, even if it doesn't successfully change to 4WD.

    I think I've posted my mode-changing experience here before; it usually takes 3-8 seconds, and I've even been able to do it several times while stopped. I'm with cliffy1 (he always knows a bunch about these things), if the change takes minutes to happen on a flat surface you've got a problem.
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    If you press the 4wd button, and the lights blink, then you need to either:

    1. Brake lightly (press and let go; repeat a few times)...this will engage the 4wd system, OR

    2. Shift into Neutral and then back to Drive; repeat if necessary.

    This above procedure applies to the center diff lock too (to disable VSC and de-throttle intervention). Once VSC is disabled, you CAN spin your wheels to get out!
  • jeffsarjeffsar Member Posts: 1
    I am trying to understand the net-net adv/disadv of a an part-time 4x4 (specifically the Sequoia) compared to a AWD like the Lexus LX of Toyota LC. I have never had a 4x4 car and will only be using it to go skiing in the Sierra (no real off-road planned). It will be a family car used by my wife to transport the kids most of the time so safety and convenience is key.

    It understand that with the AWD you ALWAYS have the benefit of a 4x4. The dealer said the Lexus LX it has a 4x4 mode too but that was when you were "stuck in mud and you are limited to about 15 mph" (seems like this is some sort of low gear mode).
    The Sequioa is normally in 2 wheel mode (rear wheel drive - which I am assuming is less safe than the FWD volvo station wagon we will be replacing) and then you switch to 4x4 when you need it.

    Please help me understand the net-net pros and cons of a part-time 4x4 vs. an AWD. Given my scenerio of not really going "off-road" is there an obvious advantage? I'm guessing it is cheaper to offer a part-time 4x4 rather than a AWD but not sure why since you could just leave the Sequioa in 4x4 mode all the time? thanks
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    First of all the Sequoia has 2WD(RWD), AWD, and 4WD(locked center diff'l, 1st gear plus low gear range only).

    AS I've said many times, if you wish to manuver around on hard packed snow in a ski parking lots the very best solution is a really good set of tire chains, the easier to install and remove all the better.

    I don't ski that much anymore but it would be hard to recount the number of times I have seen road-going (snowcats NOT!) vehicles of all types stuck trying to get up even the slightest incline in these areas.

    If you're virtually stopped, no momentum for help, and all four wheels are on a slippery surface, being able to drive all four will be of little help.

    Low range only: With the center diff'l locked, the ABS, Anti-skid Braking System, MUST be disabled since it cannot function. Therefore it makes a lot of sense for Toyota to restrict the use of 4WD in this manner.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Like my AWD 94 Ford Aerostar, with a set of tire chains on board I wouldn't hesitate taking the Sequoia anywhere in the Pacific Northwest readily accessible to road-going vehicles.

    I would never buy one due to the over-size overweight for my purposes but I would definitely prefer the Sequoia's drive system over the RX.
  • alfie58alfie58 Member Posts: 7
    Can anyone tell me how much each one cost? And which one is better in durability? I appreciate any and all responses!

    BTW, how much is APR rates if my credit is 758? My uncle said about 4% but I just want to make sure before I negotiate with my dealer.

    I appreciate your help!
    Jen
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Wwest, if you need chains for driving on "hard packed snow parking lots", in an AWD/4WD vehicle then there's something amiss.

    Jen,

    For pricing, take a look at all the information here on Edmund's rather than asking one of us to look it up. Sounds grumpy, I know, but still......the entire sight was constructed around pricing information for new and used cars.....

    IdahoDoug
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Doug,

    Begging your pardon, but I know of no winter tire, absent studs, that will get you up and going on a slight incline in most ski area parking lots with hard packed snow.

    If you need videos I can probably arrange that.

    Spreading the traction needed to gain forward momentum across four contact surfaces will indeed increase the probability of moving forward, but not if the total traction equation doesn't equal the force applied to move the vehicle.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Alfie58, check out the Toyota RAV4 discussion.

    Steve, Host
    (powder week - yee haw! - studs <g>)
  • stevek80stevek80 Member Posts: 64
    Sequoia.. Hit the 4x4 button and I'm in AWD.. right? Someone correct me.. please.. but that means that EACH wheel has pulling or pushing power. With 4x2 the rear passenger side does all the pushing.. right? So now I'm in AWD and if one tire spins the anti skid kicks in after a few seconds and gets that tire under control. Computer senses all 4 tires and adjusts accordingly.. whatever that means. Now I hit the locking diff button and turn off the anti skid.. Now what's happening.? Since the diff is locked are all 4 tires spinning the same.. or just the rear two. I always thought that 4x4 meant one rear (passenger side) and one front.. drivers side. Does the locking diff lock front and back? I have limited slip diff on my Suburban so I'm not sure what a locking diff really does. Also don't know how the front diff works at all.. if I have limited slip in the rear do I also have the same in the front? Thanks for the input!
  • alfie58alfie58 Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for help rav4driver!

    I just came back from the dealer and he said he'll sell it to me for $21,500. Destination fee included, I just have to add taxes.

    Do you think $21,500 is a good price to pay?

    BTW, would you know how much the % APR would be? I have excellent credit. Just want to ask her first so I don't get ripped off.

    Jen
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    It is my understanding on reading the Sequoia owners manual that it only locks the center differential (part-time 4X4) if the shifter is placed in 1st gear position, and the transmission is also in LOW, granny grunt, range.

    In AWD mode engine torque is delivered equally to all four tires provided all four have roughly equal traction, high or low. The problem with open diff'l is that they, you have three in AWD mode, will route ALL engine torque to a single slipping wheel.

    That's where Trac is supposed to step and provide "virtual" traction to the slipping wheel/tire.

    I would expect that Trac would still be operative in 2WD (RWD) mode to provide "virtual" LSD capability for the otherwise open rear diff'l.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    I stared at your response (1328) to the chains-in-the-parking-lot thing for a full 60 seconds trying to decide whether to respond or not. And I decided not to.

    IdahoDoug
  • trout14trout14 Member Posts: 19
    So, I have a '99 TLC with rear diff. Why is there a light on the dash showing a front diff lock? Of course it doesn't light up, because I don't have one. Any idea why it was put in? Do other countries have that option in that year of TLC? Just wondering.

    AS far as ski parking lots. Had a 84 Front WD honda, never got stuck, never could not go anywhere I wanted to in a ski parking lot. I used to drive 400 miles on the weekends in the winter in montana on hard packed snow at 70mph, along with everyone else, never had a problem there either. If you race an engine, tires spin, go slow and you will go.
  • tlcmantlcman Member Posts: 220
    I have a TLC 94' with center and rear lockers, all gauges and back lit panels are made the same for the TLC 94-the redesign.. Im not sure if that happened when you got your rig, but it will mostlikly be the same thing. Like I was saying, all the back lit plates in the speedometer area (which Im assuming is where you see it) have the lights and advisory signs wired and installed even though you might not have it on your rig. Yes they were a dealership, and in some other cases factory add-ons, on my TLC I have the center lock light on the left with the rear and front on the right bottom advisory sign areas, even though my rear light does not light up because I have a detroit EZ locker thats always locked when power is applied. Now if your truck is stock then it only has a center diff locker unless you got the upgraded package, on the stock both front and back solid axles are open/unlocked. Hope this helps.
    -Reed
    As for slipping on snow... I live in Colorado so I have a set of chains for my front tires that I have never used, just be smart and keep your momentum stable and you will be just fine, no abrupt moves, and give your self plenty of space. (not as much if you are in a lighter car than my 2 1/2 ton rig)
  • hicairahicaira Member Posts: 276
    In other parts of the world the 100 is available with a solid front axle (but not with the V8). For those models there is a locking front diff option. Thus, the light that does nothing.

    HiC
  • tlcmantlcman Member Posts: 220
    I havent herd of a TLC 100 with a solid front but I'm sure their out there... Trout, is your TLC an fj or fzj80 or the redesigned 100 series?... Im not sure when the redesign came around but I think that it was near that time. I am not familiar with the new dash components used on the 100's
  • hicairahicaira Member Posts: 276
    Trout's '99 is a 100 series. I have a '98, first year of the 100's. I have the same un-lightable dash light. In Austraila, you could get a solid front axle with the diesel engine in a 100. IIRC, you can also get a solid front axle with the 4.5 L I-6. Or, at least you could back when they made the 98's and 99's.

    HiC
  • priscprisc Member Posts: 16
    Hi there!

    I'm seriously considering the highlander as my next vehicle, although, I'll probably wait for the hybrid version. Anyway, I can't decide if the AWD is worth the extra $ and decrease in mpg. I was thinking this is probably one more thing that could go wrong and/or require regular maintenance. Is this true.

    I live in the Washington DC area so I don't do any off-road driving.

    I plan to own this vehicle for 8+ years or so.

    Thanks in advance!

    Jack
  • tlcmantlcman Member Posts: 220
    Toyota has always had a strong off-road name, so the 4wd system on a highlander that wont be seeing any off roading will stay around for 8 years, (depending on how you drive it) I truthfully cant say that I know what your weather is like year round, I lived in Washington State for most of my life before moving to Colorado. If snow will be encountered the 4wd system will be a definet +, otherwise a 2wd system will ultimately save you money with the mpg and any wear. Regular maintenance on the AWD system will probably not be nesicary, I have a TLC '94 with over 110,000 miles on it Full time 4WD and two lockers and I have not had a single problem except for pretty shabby mpg...

    As for the 100 series, thanks for clearing that up
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    The basic Australian Landcruiser is available with a locking front and rear differential as an Option Pack. frequently the diff locaks are fitted after market and tend to be air lockers supplied by ARB or similar. They are extremely effective if you ever need to lock all four wheels to the ground for purposes such as winching a tree down,

    http://www.lc100.toyota.com.au/LC100/InDetail/Specifications/1,12- - 89,133---123^81,00.html

    Cheers

    Graham
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    are more familiar with seeing a 4X4 wenched up a tree.
  • john361john361 Member Posts: 9
    Almost as good as "my lawn mower doesn't care what kind of gas it gets"
  • rblelandrbleland Member Posts: 312
    Just curious!!
  • grapevinetxgrapevinetx Member Posts: 89
    AWD HL requires periodic re-torque on the drive shaft bolt. Rear differential oil and transfer case oil should be changed if you regularly go off paved roads or otherwise use the vehicle such that you fall into the severe maintenance schedule.

    Haven't seen any reports of reliability issues with HL AWD. Mileage decrease for AWD seems to be 1-2 mpg on the V6. HL is supposedly available in AWD with the 4-cyl., but haven't seen many that actually have this config. Any 4-cyl. AWD HL folks around that can report on mpg?
  • tlcmantlcman Member Posts: 220
    Im sorry i wasn't clear i didn't mean that the 4wd system on the highlander would not require regular maintenance, I meant to say stay with the maintenance schedule, agreeing with Grapevine. Regular maintenance will keep your HL around for 8+ years... :)
  • m4ethm4eth Member Posts: 101
    My wife has an 2002 4cyl AWD Highlander we get about 21 MPG in city driving...we haven't checked it lately but Toyota's usally loosen up and get better Gas Mileage with age. However, we enjoy this vehicle very much...very nice cruising machine for long distance trips.

    Mike
  • cl3incocl3inco Member Posts: 10
    I want to know if either the V6 4WD or the V8 4WD can be towed without a carrier, that is, "free wheeling" behind an RV. I suspect that the Multimode 4WD can be placed in neutral, but not sure about the full timne version. Please advise.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I know the owner's manual addresses this, but I can tell you that the V8 CAN be put into a true neutral state. Both the transfer case and transmission must be in neutral.
  • toyboxxtoyboxx Member Posts: 150
    I'm not sure but I believe the Owner's Manual tells you the proper way to tow your 4Runner behind another vehicle.

    Short of that I don't think you can tow a full time 4wd with two wheels still on the ground let alone all four.
  • rblelandrbleland Member Posts: 312
    .. I think that is correct. The correct method is for sure set out in the Owner's Manual and I looked at mine recently (just got an '04 RAV4) and for full time AWD, must not have any wheels on ground/turning IIFC.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    "Your vehicle is not designed to be dinghy towed (with four wheels on the ground) behind a motorhome."

    "Notice: Do not tow your vehicle with four wheels on the ground. This may cause serious damage to your vehicle."

    I honest have no idea why this is the case. The Runner is not anything like the RAV4 and its 4WD system can be totally disengaged. The RAV4 and most AWD vehicles can't do this. The manual does not make any distinction between the V6 and the V8 in this section so there is something beyond the conventional wisdom going on here. Nor do they make a distinction between 2 and 4WD models.
  • tlcmantlcman Member Posts: 220
    Contact your dealership, all toys are different in there own special way, ive never tried to tow my rig, (usually its the one doing the towing) but, if i had to tow put both shifters (regular tranny shifter and transfer case shifter) in to neutral and unlock the center and rear diff'lt ... Thats with mine... But please before towing call the dealership or shoot them an e-mail they can tell you about your car better than me. The safest way but more costly is to trailer it. When I purchased my 94 TLC it had the full time 4WD, my understanding is that the power from the engine is driven to the trany then transfer case then the center differential then to the front and rear diff, if the trany is placed in N then the transfer case can spin, if the transfer is in N then the drive shafts spin = less resistance, if front and rear diff locks are open then it is just fine. (mind you all that this is on a solid front and rear axle SUV, im not sure how the independents work but i would imagine its pretty close to the same)
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